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	<title>Comments on: Sabbatical Journal Week 2: The Road Home and Back Again</title>
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	<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/sabbatical-journal-week-2-the-road-home-and-back-again</link>
	<description>...dispatches from the post-evangelical wilderness</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jan 2009 11:36:24 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Sandy C.</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/sabbatical-journal-week-2-the-road-home-and-back-again#comment-247575</link>
		<dc:creator>Sandy C.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jun 2008 17:15:58 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>oh, enjoy St. Meinrad.  We made a brief visit there several years ago and it was amazing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>oh, enjoy St. Meinrad.  We made a brief visit there several years ago and it was amazing.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/sabbatical-journal-week-2-the-road-home-and-back-again#comment-245361</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Jun 2008 19:14:52 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I'm not sure what God does to move out of our comfort zones. I don't think he forces us out. Then again, as you mentioned before, how do we deal with/incorporate/appropriate the &lt;i&gt;"bad"&lt;/i&gt; things that happen to us? Instead of blaming God for our loss, maybe we should see in these things divine providence. 

Gall's story is a case in point. That fact that it bears re-telling indicates how God moves us out of our comfort zone. In retrospect, or its recounting, it seems obvious that the Church board meeting was not important at all. Scripture is full of stories like that, such as the parable Gall's story invokes. If listening to Jesus doesn't move us, if having an experience like Gall's doesn't move us, its because we have hearts made of stone and forgetful minds. Liturgy is repetitve because, in the words of a former liturgy prof., we're all amnesiacs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not sure what God does to move out of our comfort zones. I don&#8217;t think he forces us out. Then again, as you mentioned before, how do we deal with/incorporate/appropriate the <i>&#8220;bad&#8221;</i> things that happen to us? Instead of blaming God for our loss, maybe we should see in these things divine providence. </p>
<p>Gall&#8217;s story is a case in point. That fact that it bears re-telling indicates how God moves us out of our comfort zone. In retrospect, or its recounting, it seems obvious that the Church board meeting was not important at all. Scripture is full of stories like that, such as the parable Gall&#8217;s story invokes. If listening to Jesus doesn&#8217;t move us, if having an experience like Gall&#8217;s doesn&#8217;t move us, its because we have hearts made of stone and forgetful minds. Liturgy is repetitve because, in the words of a former liturgy prof., we&#8217;re all amnesiacs.</p>
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		<title>By: theophilusmonk</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/sabbatical-journal-week-2-the-road-home-and-back-again#comment-245055</link>
		<dc:creator>theophilusmonk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Jun 2008 17:02:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/sabbatical-journal-week-2-the-road-home-and-back-again#comment-245055</guid>
		<description>some say it is better to travel than to arrive</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>some say it is better to travel than to arrive</p>
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		<title>By: Haley Ballast</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/sabbatical-journal-week-2-the-road-home-and-back-again#comment-245054</link>
		<dc:creator>Haley Ballast</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Jun 2008 17:02:40 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Thank you iMonk and Mr. Gall for two very thought-provoking posts.  I'm off to my affluent, suburban, palatial church full of rich people like me who desperately need Jesus...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you iMonk and Mr. Gall for two very thought-provoking posts.  I&#8217;m off to my affluent, suburban, palatial church full of rich people like me who desperately need Jesus&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/sabbatical-journal-week-2-the-road-home-and-back-again#comment-245002</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Jun 2008 13:23:05 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I am from your hometown in Western Kentucky.  I know the things you are talking about very well.  It might interest you to know that there are at least a few of us here in Owensboro who see these things.  We are trying to make a difference.  It is slow and very hard to go against the grain here.  But we are finding that change is occurring.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am from your hometown in Western Kentucky.  I know the things you are talking about very well.  It might interest you to know that there are at least a few of us here in Owensboro who see these things.  We are trying to make a difference.  It is slow and very hard to go against the grain here.  But we are finding that change is occurring.</p>
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		<title>By: Fr. Mike Creson</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/sabbatical-journal-week-2-the-road-home-and-back-again#comment-244968</link>
		<dc:creator>Fr. Mike Creson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Jun 2008 10:26:39 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Thanks for your thoughtful post. So often we find ourselves in a comfortable ministry away from the 4L's&#38;D folks. If we can see the poverty of soul even in the affluent then there lies our big challenge. A change in the way they view the Kingdom can rock their world.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for your thoughtful post. So often we find ourselves in a comfortable ministry away from the 4L&#8217;s&amp;D folks. If we can see the poverty of soul even in the affluent then there lies our big challenge. A change in the way they view the Kingdom can rock their world.</p>
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		<title>By: Pete Gall</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/sabbatical-journal-week-2-the-road-home-and-back-again#comment-244772</link>
		<dc:creator>Pete Gall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 May 2008 17:14:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/sabbatical-journal-week-2-the-road-home-and-back-again#comment-244772</guid>
		<description>You wrote what I thought was a great review of my book a couple of days ago.  Fair in critique, insightful in what got traction for you.  Thank you for that.

This, though, this granting to me of some "mental real estate" as you look at your own world, is a true gift. Thank you for carrying my story with you as you explore your own. I believe that in the end all we really have to offer one another are our prayers and our testimonies, and when a brother "receives" either one, something profound and lasting has been accomplished.  Thank you for that.

I've been to St. Meinrad's several times myself - and have a couple of favorite benches beneath the clusters of trees there. I'll think of you, and pray for you, there as I clean up the yard after last night's storms here in Indianapolis.

One verse that has reoriented some of my thoughts and misgivings about the whole urban/suburban thing, and the ministry that goes on in each place, has been the passage in James 2 that talks about not giving up the good seat to the rich man with the fine robes and rings on his thumbs when he comes to church. For me the big question is, why -- in a world where there was very little economic or political gain to be had from associating with the Christians -- would the rich man come to church in the first place?

All I can come up with is that he'd learned that the comforts of his wealth could do nothing to remove the effects of the Fall.  He hurt, and he wanted comfort. He needed the Cross. When we give up the good seats to the rich men, or when we level our harsh criticism at the addictions of the suburbs, what we tend to communicate is a challenge of "who are you to complain?"  And when we do that, we become an extra obstacle -- a fallen, human social barrier -- between an isolated person of means, and the Cross that beckons us all.

There is a segregation that exists between urban and suburban ministries, and I think a great deal of the gulf between them has to do with the disrespect shown to the rich man. I think there is just as wrong about the way we don't preserve the path to the Cross for the affluent as there is wrong with the way we tend to treat the poor as projects or problems to be solved.

I hear you when you talk about how you didn't cross the bridge between the suburbs and the "urbs" with your youth, and I'm sure there are all sorts of conflicting motivations behind that. But I would bet that even without that cross-cultural experience -- and maybe exactly because that cross-cultural experience didn't happen -- the path to the Cross was kept open for the souls in your care.

There are multiple cultures in the Body. And I don't know that it's accurate to say that Jesus was "counter-cultural" in his living. The term itself puts the culture at the center, and makes Jesus, and Christianity, a reactionary thing (which leaves it always "chasing cool," and you can't ever catch up with cool, or relevant). What I think I see, instead, is a proclamation of a different culture, one not defined over and against any other culture, but one that stands independently, and rests upon the mutually submitted, delighting, perichoretic relationship of the Trinity.

I think there is adventure enough in discovering that culture to keep us busy -- and very, very alive. Busy enough, I pray, to make the successes and regrets we feel about the way we dance through the other cultures seem increasingly dull. At least that is what has been happening in me about my time in Denver.

Anyway, I will be praying for you today.  

And if you want to add a little extra drive time to your week, let me know -- I know a great Ethiopian place not too far from my house.

Pete</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You wrote what I thought was a great review of my book a couple of days ago.  Fair in critique, insightful in what got traction for you.  Thank you for that.</p>
<p>This, though, this granting to me of some &#8220;mental real estate&#8221; as you look at your own world, is a true gift. Thank you for carrying my story with you as you explore your own. I believe that in the end all we really have to offer one another are our prayers and our testimonies, and when a brother &#8220;receives&#8221; either one, something profound and lasting has been accomplished.  Thank you for that.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve been to St. Meinrad&#8217;s several times myself - and have a couple of favorite benches beneath the clusters of trees there. I&#8217;ll think of you, and pray for you, there as I clean up the yard after last night&#8217;s storms here in Indianapolis.</p>
<p>One verse that has reoriented some of my thoughts and misgivings about the whole urban/suburban thing, and the ministry that goes on in each place, has been the passage in <a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=James+2" title="ESV James 2" class="bibleref">James 2</a> that talks about not giving up the good seat to the rich man with the fine robes and rings on his thumbs when he comes to church. For me the big question is, why &#8212; in a world where there was very little economic or political gain to be had from associating with the Christians &#8212; would the rich man come to church in the first place?</p>
<p>All I can come up with is that he&#8217;d learned that the comforts of his wealth could do nothing to remove the effects of the Fall.  He hurt, and he wanted comfort. He needed the Cross. When we give up the good seats to the rich men, or when we level our harsh criticism at the addictions of the suburbs, what we tend to communicate is a challenge of &#8220;who are you to complain?&#8221;  And when we do that, we become an extra obstacle &#8212; a fallen, human social barrier &#8212; between an isolated person of means, and the Cross that beckons us all.</p>
<p>There is a segregation that exists between urban and suburban ministries, and I think a great deal of the gulf between them has to do with the disrespect shown to the rich man. I think there is just as wrong about the way we don&#8217;t preserve the path to the Cross for the affluent as there is wrong with the way we tend to treat the poor as projects or problems to be solved.</p>
<p>I hear you when you talk about how you didn&#8217;t cross the bridge between the suburbs and the &#8220;urbs&#8221; with your youth, and I&#8217;m sure there are all sorts of conflicting motivations behind that. But I would bet that even without that cross-cultural experience &#8212; and maybe exactly because that cross-cultural experience didn&#8217;t happen &#8212; the path to the Cross was kept open for the souls in your care.</p>
<p>There are multiple cultures in the Body. And I don&#8217;t know that it&#8217;s accurate to say that Jesus was &#8220;counter-cultural&#8221; in his living. The term itself puts the culture at the center, and makes Jesus, and Christianity, a reactionary thing (which leaves it always &#8220;chasing cool,&#8221; and you can&#8217;t ever catch up with cool, or relevant). What I think I see, instead, is a proclamation of a different culture, one not defined over and against any other culture, but one that stands independently, and rests upon the mutually submitted, delighting, perichoretic relationship of the Trinity.</p>
<p>I think there is adventure enough in discovering that culture to keep us busy &#8212; and very, very alive. Busy enough, I pray, to make the successes and regrets we feel about the way we dance through the other cultures seem increasingly dull. At least that is what has been happening in me about my time in Denver.</p>
<p>Anyway, I will be praying for you today.  </p>
<p>And if you want to add a little extra drive time to your week, let me know &#8212; I know a great Ethiopian place not too far from my house.</p>
<p>Pete</p>
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		<title>By: Bird</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/sabbatical-journal-week-2-the-road-home-and-back-again#comment-244757</link>
		<dc:creator>Bird</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 May 2008 16:18:30 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I seem to recall C. S. Lewis saying that his Anglican church could use missionaries sent to the Anglican church.

Sadly, the same is true for much of Christianity, especially the North American Protestant Evangelical flavor.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I seem to recall C. S. Lewis saying that his Anglican church could use missionaries sent to the Anglican church.</p>
<p>Sadly, the same is true for much of Christianity, especially the North American Protestant Evangelical flavor.</p>
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		<title>By: iMonk</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/sabbatical-journal-week-2-the-road-home-and-back-again#comment-244752</link>
		<dc:creator>iMonk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 May 2008 15:46:39 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I know that guy. He's very fond of me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know that guy. He&#8217;s very fond of me.</p>
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		<title>By: lonelypilgrim</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/sabbatical-journal-week-2-the-road-home-and-back-again#comment-244751</link>
		<dc:creator>lonelypilgrim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 May 2008 15:43:16 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>As to your feeling of being without a home, I was reading a story once about someone who said that the foxes have holes and the birds have nests but he didn't have any place to sleep.  The people in his "hometown" also tried to kill him.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As to your feeling of being without a home, I was reading a story once about someone who said that the foxes have holes and the birds have nests but he didn&#8217;t have any place to sleep.  The people in his &#8220;hometown&#8221; also tried to kill him.</p>
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