Comments on: Riffs:03:05:09: Baptists- The New Methodists? (According to Dr. Chuck Kelley)

By: blondlobo

blondlobo — Tue, 17 Mar 2009 22:41:17 +0000

I know this thread is probably dead, but born and raised SBCer here. Been in one for…about 22 years of my life. Anyway…

I qualify as a young SBCer (I’m not 30 yet) and here’s where I’m disillusioned with the denomination:
* loyalty to the denomination above all else (and loyalty to LifeWay above all else)
* emphasis on living a “good life” instead of the Gospel and theology
* alienation of GenX and beyond through tired political rhetoric
* taking political stances rather than preaching the Gospel (I am so sick of “homosexuality is what’s wrong with America” sermons…)
* No discipleship. “Discipleship” in my church means roughly the equivalent of “Sunday School.”
* “Programs” are the answer for everything. Forget prayer, introspection and true worship, let’s throw more money and material at another “program.”
* Disconnection with the surrounding community. My church does not reflect my community. It will be dead before I am 40.

Don’t get me wrong, I have a solid theological foundation, largely in part because of my church. However, things have changed during the past decade-plus and we need to let go of the old, take a good hard look at ourselves and then…well, (this is going to freak out some hard core SBCers) let Holy Spirit work.

I still hold out hope Holy Spirit will move through my little congregation.

By: lossed

lossed — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 06:34:28 +0000

Where am I to begin?

By: Ezra

Ezra — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 05:24:08 +0000

My apologies for the poor articulation of my previous post. Let me highlight the essence of my view. We (SBC, Chrisianity) need a renewed zeal for sound doctrine. Particularly, the doctrine of salvation. While our BF&M is right on our practice is often heretical. Acts 20:21 gives precisely the message of Pauls ministry, “repentance toward God and faith toward the Lord Jesus Christ.” Repentance is absolutely necessary for saving faith to exist. If a lack of sinfulness in the life of a christian is now called legalism then so be it but Paul states it as necessary throughout his teachings. Faith in Jesus Christ as Lord (boss, master, owner, ruler) is that which he also taught. Now there are many other subjects found in Paul’s writings but these are preeminent. When a church or organization gets these priorities right then all of the other ridiculous arguments will cease to exist.

By: Ezra

Ezra — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 05:03:52 +0000

First time visitor of the site. I am amazed as I read through each post on this page. I grew up in a traditional SBC and now pastor a traditional SBC. I am thankful that God sent his Son to take my place upon the cross. I am infinitely grateful that I learned of this amazing love as a child. I was prostelyzed at the age of 7 and became SBC. The night I came down in a revival meeting and told the evangelist that I wanted to be saved he had me recite a prayer after him. Then at the age of 7 told me to read the book of John. The church stepped in an took me through personal discipleship by a well-meaning man using the survival guide produced by now Lifeway. At the age of 16 I realized the lost state of my soul. I recited another prayer and came forth to be baptized this time no organized personal discipleship followed.
My story illustrates the reason the SBC is on a fast-track to extinction. The essence of the problem with the SBC is not: our music style, our clothing (By the way who is it that has no other shoes to wear than flip-flops as they listen to their ipod and text message through the service come on that argument is tired. The majority of SBC don’t care about clothing so long as it is modest.), our discipleship training hour, our SS hour, our architecture, our love for the denomination, etc. etc. fill in your gripe. The problem is the way in which we communicate the gospel for it is “the power of God unto salvation.” Jesus’ statement in Matthew 7:21 is the essence of our problem and the essence of the problem with the view represented time and again on this page. The conclusion of the Lord for the lack of regenration was a lack of repentance. Thus going from disobedience to obedience. He stated friends that the saved are those that do the “will of My (Jesus) Father in heaven.” We must relentlessly and unapologetically preach and teach sound doctrine. While Paul said nothing to Timothy about all of the aforementioned “issues” of the church he did write the following words to the young pastor. “Let no one despise your youth, but be an example to the believers in word, in conduct, in love, in spirit, in faith, in purity. Till I come, give attention to reading, to exhortation, to doctrine.” I believe we can all: give up the controlling properties of alcohol; lay off the sexually explicit, vulgar, blasphemous movies; avoid crude language; and any other sin that you may be justifying by criticizing the shortcomings of our last generations.

By: couv cruiser

couv cruiser — Thu, 12 Mar 2009 21:16:02 +0000

The problem we are trying to solve is especially challenging because the cultural trends that produced the crisis were eating like termites at the structure of Church life since at least the late fifties, and the damage is not repairable. Electronic media, and especially home based entertainment like TV, radio, electronics, etc., have so transformed the mind, and especially the leisure time, of so many Americans, that serious reflection as a recreational or regular activity has disappeared. Bible reading and disciplined prayer are out of the question for most.

We are nearing the end of the ‘cut flower’ stage of Christianity in America. The 19th century was the full flowering, and the doctrinal and scientific challenges of the early twentieth century were what both sparked the vigorous spiritual intensity in that era, but which also became the land mines of our last fifty years. This intellectual assault on the faith made the Church’s (and the culture’s) entertainment infatuation easier to accomplish. The new generation is completely adrift.

The Church’s responses have been various, but the predominant one has been to be equally as entertaining as the competition. The success of the charismatic movement (whatever you may think of its validity) may be attributed to its promise of a direct connection to spiritual reality as the ‘meditative’ element was receding in traditional churches and personal spirituality.

As a result, we may have have lost the ability or desire to internalize very deeply the contents of the faith. I don’t have the answer for that, of course, but unless God reveals that secret to a substantial element of the Church in America, we will see the collapse iMonk wrote about. And soon. What took generations to destroy will not be rebuilt in a decade.

By: Cindy Page

Cindy Page — Thu, 12 Mar 2009 18:07:00 +0000

My husband & I worked as church planters for nearly 15 years in Florida as southern baptists. Usually hosted/sponsored by a “mother” church, once the new church began standing on its own, the “mother” church wanted to shut our doors. If they didn’t agree with the style of music we presented, or the fact that the men didn’t wear ties on Sunday morning, or any other ridiculous rule they could think of, they wanted to shut us down. And they did. We, personally would purchase sound equipment or teaching items needed for the ministry. Once the ministry was shut down, the main church would absorb these gifts into their own programs or assets. This didn’t happen just once, but several times.
You want to know why evangelism is declining…because long-term Christians have gotten so set in their own ways they have adopted the mentality of “My way or the highway”. Many of our church leaders (pastors, deacons, teachers) look down on someone attending church in flip-flops & a t-shirt not realizing that’s all they have to wear; or they think giving to the cooperative program is more important than physically handing out Bibles & performing one-on-one ministry with people on the street. They say, “Oh we’ve tried that before & it never worked”. They don’t even know if it worked, because they never followed through with the ministry.
I’ve said all of this for one reason. Evangelism is very much alive in us – each of us – if we allow it to come forth. We are called/commanded to do this. If we are truly Christian (little Christ’s) we will evangelize, no matter what.

By: ScottL

ScottL — Sat, 07 Mar 2009 22:05:33 +0000

I know of an SBC affiliated church (I will leave location anonymous) that does not have the label ‘Baptist’ in their name and they are governed by plurality of eldership. It is my understanding plurality of eldership is a no-no in the SBC. I know of another SBC mega-church (in the same area) that was crushed and split over having such a governance structure (plus it had moved into more charismatic leanings). But this church I first referred to survives as it is now because they are only about 150-200 people.

So it is possible to maintain the relationship with SBC but not have the name, or function in every aspect like a traditional SBC local church would, but the latter being much tougher. But knowing this local church is led by plurality of eldership makes me wonder how long they will be able to continue with the SBC, especially if they grow much bigger and become a more noticeable congregation.

By: Jeff M

Jeff M — Sat, 07 Mar 2009 17:30:14 +0000

There are several churches in the Dakotas that do not use Baptist in their name at all, we even have a Faith Community Church in our association here. Plus there are the ministries like “The Answer Center” in Sioux Falls. I don’t know if it was a conscious decision to avoid the SBC tag that influenced the decision or not.

By: ScottL

ScottL — Sat, 07 Mar 2009 12:17:14 +0000

Thanks iMonk. That might be the first step – calling oneself Faith Community Church, with SBC on the side. But the faithful SBC’s might see this as headed down the slippery slope of getting rid of the label as a whole. But, with change, it is one step at a time.

Thanks

By: GSusGuy

GSusGuy — Fri, 06 Mar 2009 22:43:18 +0000

Should it not be the church’s job to ensure the name of Christ is upheld and not so much the denomination? It sounds like there were a lot of statistics and strategies bounced about. How about asking God what He is calling His church to become? As usual, I will probably be snuffed off as a loose fringe because of these comments. But, I hope that somewhere someone will join me in praying the Lord’s will be done for His Bride and not have another panic stricken institution that needs more band aids and stimulus plans.