Comments on: Riffs x2: 05:06:09 Who Will Dominate the Culture? and What’s The Evangelism Problem? http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/riffs-x2-050609-who-will-dominate-the-culture-and-whats-the-evangelism-problem ...dispatches from the post-evangelical wilderness Sun, 12 Feb 2012 14:43:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: a really non importantperson http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/riffs-x2-050609-who-will-dominate-the-culture-and-whats-the-evangelism-problem/comment-page-3#comment-501256 a really non importantperson Fri, 17 Jul 2009 00:50:46 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=3160#comment-501256 p.s/ i speak to all kinds of people from many countries including muslims both what i call [legalistic muslims and non-legalistic] everyone is my neighbor, in fact i am learning boundaries. and this is here in the states, it is very odd, actually. i would have never in my life: seen this coming. i kind of wish i had some debriefing: but oh well. .. i forgot to touch on this particular "neighbor" issue at hand. i think the turmoils between christians/ and family issues are way harder. that is the funk. but i do believe God is helping us work that out. thanks again for time. xo.eternal. p.s/
i speak to all kinds of people from many countries including muslims
both what i call [legalistic muslims and non-legalistic]
everyone is my neighbor, in fact i am learning boundaries.
and this is here in the states, it is very odd, actually.
i would have never in my life: seen this coming.
i kind of wish i had some debriefing: but oh well.
..
i forgot to touch on this particular “neighbor” issue at hand.
i think the turmoils between christians/ and family issues are way harder.
that is the funk. but i do believe God is helping us work that out.
thanks again for time.
xo.eternal.

]]> By: a really non importantperson http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/riffs-x2-050609-who-will-dominate-the-culture-and-whats-the-evangelism-problem/comment-page-3#comment-501253 a really non importantperson Fri, 17 Jul 2009 00:46:09 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=3160#comment-501253 i did not watch the video/ i have seen enough and heard enough of this strange warped agenda for at least 30 years or so. .. however/ speaking from an evangelical stance: and when i say evangelical i mean evangelize: as in the way the Scriptures meant: as in the way the great commission was set before the church which apparently is still in place[if it is 2009]: which i believe includes any person who has simple faith that Jesus is their saviour/ and at same time i do not believe that the great commission was ever actually something to be completely fulfilled "by the church in total"/ [sorry for this run-on sentence i am a poor writer!] .. but/ there are times when i myself keep my mouth shut as a Christian and times when i do not/ there are times when i speak very specifically about the good news/ the gospel of Jesus Christ and times when i am very vague according to the situation/ there are times when it seems like "well, guess i will never be talking about Jesus ever again, what the heck was that all about ???" then WHAM suddenly the "evangelizing? or whatever we are calling it these days is happening again and it is different and yet still very potent and i do not have any power over this and it is not because of going to seminary or reading books on how to do this [save the scriptures] it is just i guess because God is doing this? but it certainly has nothing to do with making some sort of jesus /christian denomination halfmuslim baby race???? this is very strange/ and absolutely un-biblical: jesus' desire is that all shall be saved and none be lost. i do not think we as finite beings can either understand this infinite desire. .. however, ultimately: really He is in control of such salvation and this has nothing to do with race. and btw He did bless what is now the muslim nation/s then in 4 different huge sections of history and this is seen in the scriptures/ even as yet still the Jews are still the chosen, and the Gentiles are grafted in. i think people / and i can include myself, just dont want to really focus on God in the midst of turmoil. when God HImself says do not be alarmed when all this stuff happens, and also He said He would end up blessing all nations under the [Jews} primarily / [one way or the other/ and the ones grafted in would cause them[Jews] to be jealous. [i am of course speaking of those who have not become fully awake] however: i dare not speak or judge any man's heart this is up to God alone: i just know i am impatient/ while God seemingly tarries: becasue He knows many "chaff" will become "wheat". .. okay thanks for time, sorry for horrible writing. xo.eternal i did not watch the video/ i have seen enough and heard enough of this strange warped agenda for at least 30 years or so.
..
however/ speaking from an evangelical stance: and when i say evangelical i mean evangelize: as in the way the Scriptures meant: as in the way the great commission was set before the church which apparently is still in place[if it is 2009]: which i believe includes any person who has simple faith that Jesus is their saviour/ and at same time i do not believe that the great commission was ever actually something to be completely fulfilled “by the church in total”/ [sorry for this run-on sentence i am a poor writer!]
..
but/ there are times when i myself keep my mouth shut as a Christian and times when i do not/ there are times when i speak very specifically about the good news/ the gospel of Jesus Christ and times when i am very vague according to the situation/ there are times when it seems like “well, guess i will never be talking about Jesus ever again, what the heck was that all about ???” then WHAM suddenly the “evangelizing? or whatever we are calling it these days is happening again and it is different and yet still very potent and i do not have any power over this and it is not because of going to seminary or reading books on how to do this [save the scriptures] it is just i guess because God is doing this? but it certainly has nothing to do with making some sort of jesus /christian denomination halfmuslim baby race???? this is very strange/ and absolutely un-biblical: jesus’ desire is that all shall be saved and none be lost. i do not think we as finite beings can either understand this infinite desire.
..
however, ultimately: really He is in control of such salvation and this has nothing to do with race. and btw He did bless what is now the muslim nation/s then in 4 different huge sections of history
and this is seen in the scriptures/ even as yet still the Jews are still the chosen, and the Gentiles are grafted in. i think people / and i can include myself, just dont want to really focus on God in the midst of turmoil. when God HImself says do not be alarmed when all this stuff happens, and also He said He would end up blessing all nations under the [Jews} primarily / [one way or the other/ and the ones grafted in would cause them[Jews] to be jealous. [i am of course speaking of those who have not become fully awake] however: i dare not speak or judge any man’s heart this is up to God alone: i just know i am impatient/ while God seemingly tarries: becasue He knows many “chaff” will become “wheat”.
..
okay thanks for time, sorry for horrible writing.
xo.eternal

]]> By: Russell http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/riffs-x2-050609-who-will-dominate-the-culture-and-whats-the-evangelism-problem/comment-page-2#comment-459585 Russell Tue, 19 May 2009 11:56:10 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=3160#comment-459585 hey all, just watched that video it was very interesting. just to say Ive done a little bit of research on comparative religion. With the implementation of the first Islamic state in Madinah, it proved to be a positive thing. with the growth of the Islamic nation, overnight a barbaric people were changed into what we would call civilized. The growth of Islam may be a good thing for Europe and America which has high rates of crime, and increasingly secular views. hey all, just watched that video it was very interesting. just to say Ive done a little bit of research on comparative religion. With the implementation of the first Islamic state in Madinah, it proved to be a positive thing. with the growth of the Islamic nation, overnight a barbaric people were changed into what we would call civilized.

The growth of Islam may be a good thing for Europe and America which has high rates of crime, and increasingly secular views.

]]> By: Mark H http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/riffs-x2-050609-who-will-dominate-the-culture-and-whats-the-evangelism-problem/comment-page-2#comment-453875 Mark H Tue, 12 May 2009 19:10:43 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=3160#comment-453875 Sorry, Mr Headless, but I do take great offence at your outburst. I didn't realise this blog was a legitimate place for accusations of Stalinist or otherwise genocidal outlook. It's hard for me not to take your comments as some kind of character assassination. I would never condone any of those things you suggest, and certainly don't think there is any simple to the problem of over-population. I am only drawing attention to the fact that, in a world with finite resources available, we cannot expect infinite, or even indefinite population growth to be sustainable. It's just simple logic. Maybe I should have added "in the long-term" to clarify what I thought would have been fairly obvious. Saying that the US population needs to be less in the long-term (ie decades) than it currently is, in order for any human population to viable, secure and healthy long-term is not the same as suggesting that it should be forcibly reduced by any means now. Apparently, there is a strong correlation between offering a higher and more universal standard of education to women, and greater genuine freedom of choice regarding family planning to women, and a reduction in birth rates. I wonder how high those issues are on the agendas of our religious spokespeople, Protestant, Catholic, Muslim or otherwise. Oh, and thanks for confirming the stereotype I've been trying to shake of North American Christians as being those who would ride rough-shod over the earth we've been given to care for in the name of progress. And I guess Global Warming is a conspiritorial myth of the left-wing too... Sorry, Mr Headless, but I do take great offence at your outburst. I didn’t realise this blog was a legitimate place for accusations of Stalinist or otherwise genocidal outlook. It’s hard for me not to take your comments as some kind of character assassination.

I would never condone any of those things you suggest, and certainly don’t think there is any simple to the problem of over-population. I am only drawing attention to the fact that, in a world with finite resources available, we cannot expect infinite, or even indefinite population growth to be sustainable. It’s just simple logic. Maybe I should have added “in the long-term” to clarify what I thought would have been fairly obvious.

Saying that the US population needs to be less in the long-term (ie decades) than it currently is, in order for any human population to viable, secure and healthy long-term is not the same as suggesting that it should be forcibly reduced by any means now.

Apparently, there is a strong correlation between offering a higher and more universal standard of education to women, and greater genuine freedom of choice regarding family planning to women, and a reduction in birth rates. I wonder how high those issues are on the agendas of our religious spokespeople, Protestant, Catholic, Muslim or otherwise.

Oh, and thanks for confirming the stereotype I’ve been trying to shake of North American Christians as being those who would ride rough-shod over the earth we’ve been given to care for in the name of progress. And I guess Global Warming is a conspiritorial myth of the left-wing too…

]]> By: Ndidi http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/riffs-x2-050609-who-will-dominate-the-culture-and-whats-the-evangelism-problem/comment-page-2#comment-453732 Ndidi Tue, 12 May 2009 15:48:38 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=3160#comment-453732 Oh, I remember seeing this. Like ScottL, I thought it was pretty biased and only from a Western perspective. The creator has never been to Nigeria, which is 50% Muslim, and the Christian population is far from being swallowed by the Muslim population. He's not counting the non-European populations around the world of which many Christians are a part. But I am also no fan of just having more children so that more Christians would be on earth. After a while, this sounded like the adults on the Charlie Brown show. Christianity does not revolve around the West. This is not 1861, Mr. Video Man. And he's obviously not heard of the cultural phenomenon of former colonized people going back to the countries that colonized them. I can't remember the term right now, but that's one reason why Europe has a huge Middle Eastern and African population. Oh, I remember seeing this. Like ScottL, I thought it was pretty biased and only from a Western perspective. The creator has never been to Nigeria, which is 50% Muslim, and the Christian population is far from being swallowed by the Muslim population. He’s not counting the non-European populations around the world of which many Christians are a part.

But I am also no fan of just having more children so that more Christians would be on earth.

After a while, this sounded like the adults on the Charlie Brown show. Christianity does not revolve around the West. This is not 1861, Mr. Video Man. And he’s obviously not heard of the cultural phenomenon of former colonized people going back to the countries that colonized them. I can’t remember the term right now, but that’s one reason why Europe has a huge Middle Eastern and African population.

]]> By: Memphis Aggie http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/riffs-x2-050609-who-will-dominate-the-culture-and-whats-the-evangelism-problem/comment-page-2#comment-453654 Memphis Aggie Tue, 12 May 2009 14:00:58 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=3160#comment-453654 Lots of fear, exaggeration, likely innocent misdirection and even some wild moral equivalence (Taliban ~= "Good Christian Soldiers"!) on this thread. The demographic numbers here are suspect , but even if they are accurate it's only part of the story. Assimilation and moderation versus extremism in the Islamic community is exceptionally hard to measure and prone to bias, no doubt. I wouldn't even know how to go about objectively measuring it. The proper approach to Islam as a believing Christian is another interesting topic. Not that I have any good insight on this, but certainly it's worth a thread of it's own. However there is one piece of the story that's basically Western and does interest me as a Christian and in general. That is the lack of confidence of the West in itself and the recasting of children and fertility and human life generally as some Malthusian/eco-horror. Woe to those who call evil good and good evil. Children are gifts and blessings and human life is precious. Where is your faith? Be fruitful and multiply. God provides for the birds, how much more so for you and I who are worth so much more than swallows? Any demographic failure in Europe or here for that matter is in part due to selfishness and in part to a lack of faith in God's providence. Birth control in a Christian context would also make a fascinating thread. While it's not a typical Protestant question I'd be interested in seeing where that might go. Lots of fear, exaggeration, likely innocent misdirection and even some wild moral equivalence (Taliban ~= “Good Christian Soldiers”!) on this thread. The demographic numbers here are suspect , but even if they are accurate it’s only part of the story. Assimilation and moderation versus extremism in the Islamic community is exceptionally hard to measure and prone to bias, no doubt. I wouldn’t even know how to go about objectively measuring it. The proper approach to Islam as a believing Christian is another interesting topic. Not that I have any good insight on this, but certainly it’s worth a thread of it’s own.

However there is one piece of the story that’s basically Western and does interest me as a Christian and in general. That is the lack of confidence of the West in itself and the recasting of children and fertility and human life generally as some Malthusian/eco-horror.

Woe to those who call evil good and good evil. Children are gifts and blessings and human life is precious. Where is your faith? Be fruitful and multiply. God provides for the birds, how much more so for you and I who are worth so much more than swallows? Any demographic failure in Europe or here for that matter is in part due to selfishness and in part to a lack of faith in God’s providence.

Birth control in a Christian context would also make a fascinating thread. While it’s not a typical Protestant question I’d be interested in seeing where that might go.

]]> By: PG http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/riffs-x2-050609-who-will-dominate-the-culture-and-whats-the-evangelism-problem/comment-page-2#comment-453523 PG Tue, 12 May 2009 11:04:02 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=3160#comment-453523 "I just don’t think it is a coincedence that democracy developed and flourished under western Christian thought." More like western neo-greek. Democracy erupted in the enlightenment when it became more fashionable for intellectuals to cite and study Platon and crew than the Bible. “I just don’t think it is a coincedence that democracy developed and flourished under western Christian thought.”

More like western neo-greek. Democracy erupted in the enlightenment when it became more fashionable for intellectuals to cite and study Platon and crew than the Bible.

]]> By: Headless Unicorn Guy http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/riffs-x2-050609-who-will-dominate-the-culture-and-whats-the-evangelism-problem/comment-page-2#comment-452628 Headless Unicorn Guy Mon, 11 May 2009 14:23:57 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=3160#comment-452628 <i>"To achieve a sustainable economy and avert disaster, the United States must reduce its population by at least one-third, and world population will have to be reduced by two-thirds, says the study.”</i> And just how is this "reducing world population by two-thirds" to be done to Save the Planet (TM)? Environmentally-friendly Zyklon B? A Carbon-Neutral alternative to Krema Ovens? And who of Gaia's Faithful get to be Dr Mengele making the Selections? Or maybe take the Stalin approach instead, with engineered famine ("We didn't kill anybody -- starvation did! Just as was prophesied in <i>The Population Bomb</i>!") THAT'S what "reducing population" implies. Especially a crash program of Reducing Population (TM) now that Global Warming (TM) Is Upon Us(!!!) “To achieve a sustainable economy and avert disaster, the United States must reduce its population by at least one-third, and world population will have to be reduced by two-thirds, says the study.”

And just how is this “reducing world population by two-thirds” to be done to Save the Planet (TM)?

Environmentally-friendly Zyklon B?
A Carbon-Neutral alternative to Krema Ovens?
And who of Gaia’s Faithful get to be Dr Mengele making the Selections?

Or maybe take the Stalin approach instead, with engineered famine (“We didn’t kill anybody — starvation did! Just as was prophesied in The Population Bomb!”)

THAT’S what “reducing population” implies. Especially a crash program of Reducing Population (TM) now that Global Warming (TM) Is Upon Us(!!!)

]]> By: Headless Unicorn Guy http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/riffs-x2-050609-who-will-dominate-the-culture-and-whats-the-evangelism-problem/comment-page-2#comment-452624 Headless Unicorn Guy Mon, 11 May 2009 14:19:16 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=3160#comment-452624 <i>The irony is that under Islam the culture warriors could keep the uppity feminists in their place, outlaw abortion, kill gays, and insist on a literal reading of creation. So what’s the problem?</i> -- AT Chaffee More than that, AT. Under the Taliban: * Everybody constantly Studied and Memorized and Quoted and Recited SCRIPTURE (the Koran)... * Everybody constantly Praised God every time they opened their mouths ("AL'LAH'U AKBAR! AL'LAH'U AKBAR! AL'LAH'U AKBAR!")... * Everyone lived by God's Law (Shari'a), not Man's... * All women dressed modestly (the Burqa) and saved themselves for marriage (honor killings)... The only thing I see Christian Culture Warriors objecting to is WHOSE book was SCRIPTURE (TM); other than that... :) The irony is that under Islam the culture warriors could keep the uppity feminists in their place, outlaw abortion, kill gays, and insist on a literal reading of creation. So what’s the problem? — AT Chaffee

More than that, AT. Under the Taliban:
* Everybody constantly Studied and Memorized and Quoted and Recited SCRIPTURE (the Koran)…
* Everybody constantly Praised God every time they opened their mouths (“AL’LAH’U AKBAR! AL’LAH’U AKBAR! AL’LAH’U AKBAR!”)…
* Everyone lived by God’s Law (Shari’a), not Man’s…
* All women dressed modestly (the Burqa) and saved themselves for marriage (honor killings)…

The only thing I see Christian Culture Warriors objecting to is WHOSE book was SCRIPTURE (TM); other than that… :)

]]> By: Mark H http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/riffs-x2-050609-who-will-dominate-the-culture-and-whats-the-evangelism-problem/comment-page-2#comment-452478 Mark H Mon, 11 May 2009 10:41:22 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=3160#comment-452478 Sam Urfer wrote: "European and American society seem to be in a hurry to self-destruct through a narcissistic slackness of procreation. It’s not so much a matter of us needing to have children to boost our “team” versus the Muslim “team”, as that human society cannot function when everybody is limiting their number of children. Why are we dooming ourselves?" Sam - I'm not so sure having more babies is the solution to anything, for anyone. Here's a quote to throw into the mix... "In a study titled Food, Land, Population and the U.S. Economy, David Pimentel, professor of ecology and agriculture at Cornell University, and Mario Giampietro, senior researcher at the US National Research Institute on Food and Nutrition (INRAN), estimate the maximum U.S. population for a sustainable economy at 200 million. To achieve a sustainable economy and avert disaster, the United States must reduce its population by at least one-third, and world population will have to be reduced by two-thirds, says the study." Why are we dooming ourselves by over-populating a planet which we seem hellbent on destroying in the name of progress? Sam Urfer wrote: “European and American society seem to be in a hurry to self-destruct through a narcissistic slackness of procreation. It’s not so much a matter of us needing to have children to boost our “team” versus the Muslim “team”, as that human society cannot function when everybody is limiting their number of children. Why are we dooming ourselves?”

Sam – I’m not so sure having more babies is the solution to anything, for anyone. Here’s a quote to throw into the mix…

“In a study titled Food, Land, Population and the U.S. Economy, David Pimentel, professor of ecology and agriculture at Cornell University, and Mario Giampietro, senior researcher at the US National Research Institute on Food and Nutrition (INRAN), estimate the maximum U.S. population for a sustainable economy at 200 million. To achieve a sustainable economy and avert disaster, the United States must reduce its population by at least one-third, and world population will have to be reduced by two-thirds, says the study.”

Why are we dooming ourselves by over-populating a planet which we seem hellbent on destroying in the name of progress?

]]>