Comments on: Riffs: James Allison on “The Last Scapegoat”

By: markwriter

markwriter — Wed, 20 Sep 2006 05:16:43 +0000

Ok, so how was all that ethereal claptrap supposed to comfort the victim of “victim of unspeakable violence and trauma”? Would you tell the girl, “Hey, Jesus is a gate for you, and not to just any pasture, but one with a one-way entrance to an abbattoir! And by the way, God sacrificed himself to us!! Doesn’t all this make Jesus’ image acquire a significant new vibrancy?” Holy smokes, dude, you reflexively gore the ox of white, middle class, suburban Christianity (did God “sacrifice himself” to soccer moms too?) and Calvin fanboys but you want to substitute it with this purple haze nonsense? Oh my gosh. I need to go blend up some Gunton and Girard and relax for a while.

By: graham

graham — Tue, 19 Sep 2006 12:12:06 +0000

Michael, you might also enjoy checking out Douglas Knight and Margaret Barker.

Barker seems to be able to swing from the sublime to the ridiculous, but I think she offers particularly helpful interpretations on atonement.

Douglas Knight feels like a blend of Gunton and Girard (the latter via Allison). He blogs at http://www.douglasknight.org/ and has set-up a helpful site here: http://www.resourcesforchristiantheology.org

By: JennySnyder1965

JennySnyder1965 — Tue, 19 Sep 2006 03:41:50 +0000

The mystical relevance of this discussion, as it identifies itself in Jesus and his vast, unassuming love, really relates to this self centered terror we possess that in the end we are too off-key to be accepted by God in a way that is holy. We try to safen the world by arbitrarily creating rules of sexual, moral, and social ethics, thinking that if we do so World will remain constant and helpful. The problem is that each of us, no matter how Christian, confronts that which we despise within our own selves: my own brother admitted he was gay, my best friend’s father is an alcoholic, my dearest nephew spits at the thought of Christianity and lives on the streets. And, for myself, I remain consumed by questions about Jesus.

The idea that being “born again” somehow relates to joining a marathon for morality is relatively new. What being “born again” means to me in its ancient sense is that God in Christ– while not only accepting but celebrating me in my strides to be a human–also empowers me to radically encouter Christ in others, who often show up in people who look like enemies. Christ did expose himself as a victim, and he shows up in everyone I would rather see demolished. To love those who differ, who stretch, who wait in the margins is to experience, in some miniscule way, the love of Jesus as he emboldened himself to walk to the cross.

Jen

By: Michael Spencer

Michael Spencer — Sun, 17 Sep 2006 14:15:34 +0000

Don,

I don’t do background checks on all my links. I read and agreed with the article, and I posted this. I know nothing about Allison. I am not recommending him as a Christian or an example of sexual behavior.

This post is not about Allison, and this comment thread won’t become a discussion of Allison, homosexuality or how most Catholics are lost.

By: Don Costello

Don Costello — Sun, 17 Sep 2006 12:12:55 +0000

I have really debated responding to this, but feel I must. I was raised in a Catholic home, not Christian, but Catholic. After living a live of drugs, sex, and rock and roll, I got saved at age 26 when I received Christ as my Saviour. I began attending a Pentecostal Church where I dove head long into studying God’s word. During those first years I got a revelation how wonderful God was, the depth of His Word, the joy of living in Him, Glory to God. Another revelation I received was how, in many areas Catholic theology was twisted. Not everything, but probably most. Saint worship, Mary worship, the Priesthood, the Mass, all that baloney has tainted my ability to receiving anything from a Catholic perspective. So when I read the post about James Allison I was skeptical, especially after what he said about the Mass. After reading the article in Christain Century, I was still not impressed, I had never heard of the guy before, so I tried to find some other things that he wrote. His other writings confirmed one of the things I gathered from the interview in Christian Century, that he was in bondage to same sex lust. I am trying not to sound harsh but the fact that he believes and preaches a twisted view of God’s word and the fact he is in bondage to lust and believes there is something of value in that, persuades me not to receive anything from him. Besides that, and most importantly is the warning that Jude gives in his Book, Jude 1-8, warning us that there are “ungodly men” who “defile the flesh” just like Sodom and Gomorrah and are trying to lead people astray. Don’t misunderstand me, I have met some born again Catholics that I believe are real Christians, but most of the Catholics I know are not Christians. They are taught that because they were baptized when they were infants, they are Christians and because of that they are going to heaven, that in itself is a very twisted heresy. I am sorry all of this sounds harsh, but I don’t mean it to be, but I do want to be clear. I’ve got a long way to go in growing as a Christian. There is so much truth to learn and error to repent of and unlearn, but some things don’t change and should not change.
Don Costello

By: churchpundit

churchpundit — Fri, 15 Sep 2006 16:25:50 +0000

I like what Alison has to say about Christ the scapegoat, as well as his thoughts as to the nature of what the pasture is he’s inviting us to. I’m not sure about his thoughts about worship… that it is supposed to be boring or underwhelming, as if the style of worship is to mortify our flesh. I find myself in a Christian movement right now that emphasizes “culture-current” styles of music, which is problematic I’ll agree. But for me, it is not so much the style of worship that is to be underwhelming or mortifying, as the attitude. So whether I sing, “Make me a living sacrifice” to Gregorian chant or thumping drum and bass music, it isn’t how I’m singing it so much as is my heart in it? Am I just saying it with my lips, with my heart far from God, or with my heart, my lips quivering as I do? Of course, I haven’t yet read the book, so I may have missed the point. But I plan on reading it, thanks to your lively discussion on it. Thanks IM! churchpundit!

By: metapundit

metapundit — Fri, 15 Sep 2006 15:49:26 +0000

You know, I’ve been meaning to look into the whole Girardian take on theology. An old friend of my parents recently got back in touch with them and I was checking out his website (http://www.preachingpeace.org/). The guy has written a few academic theology papers and is heavily into “mimesis”; Girard’s hermeneutical framework based on this idea of a scapegoat.

To be honest, I’d never heard of Mimesis or Girard before, but some of the content is interesting. My main problem is that I’m a bit suspicious of any single (and innovative) principle that claims to explain all of theology… Has anybody else any more resources about Girardian theology to recommend (I’d be interested in a critical look as well…)?

Michael, your comment about our blindness to the many dimensions of the cross really resonates with me. Somehow, I think, the Sola’s have trapped most protestants into thinking that the meaning of the cross can only be found in the penal substitution theory. I think it enhances our understanding of the cross to have many models and metaphors for what what happened: ransom, satisfaction, substitution. People only want to hear (or have been taught to hear only) certain words and concepts (imputation) in exploring what the cross meant and not others (victory, for instance). I’ve long felt the Christus Victor model is underrated and has some unique advantages, but preaching a sermon in most evangelical churches that finds in the cross a contest between God and the powers where victory is demonstrated by the resurrection is just unlikely to resonate with people. Despite some faults, the explication of Christus Victor found at http://sharktacos.com/God/cross_intro.shtml really helped me think along these lines…