<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Riffs: 10:20:09: The Status of the Reformation according to 9 Marks and B16</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/riffs-102009-the-status-of-the-reformation-according-to-9-marks-and-b16/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/riffs-102009-the-status-of-the-reformation-according-to-9-marks-and-b16</link>
	<description>...dispatches from the post-evangelical wilderness</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 21 Mar 2010 19:25:02 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: Robertz</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/riffs-102009-the-status-of-the-reformation-according-to-9-marks-and-b16/comment-page-1#comment-516560</link>
		<dc:creator>Robertz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Oct 2009 09:50:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=4840#comment-516560</guid>
		<description>Ernesto, what the Church agreed to in the declaration is the same official teaching of the Church back before the &quot;Reformation&quot; ever started. The reformation occurred when there was much corruption and ignorance amongst both clergy and laity against what the Church actually taught, combined with the ignorance of other clergy and laity who sought to reform something that actually only required better catechesis.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ernesto, what the Church agreed to in the declaration is the same official teaching of the Church back before the &#8220;Reformation&#8221; ever started. The reformation occurred when there was much corruption and ignorance amongst both clergy and laity against what the Church actually taught, combined with the ignorance of other clergy and laity who sought to reform something that actually only required better catechesis.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Robertz</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/riffs-102009-the-status-of-the-reformation-according-to-9-marks-and-b16/comment-page-1#comment-516559</link>
		<dc:creator>Robertz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Oct 2009 09:38:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=4840#comment-516559</guid>
		<description>Teri, you have just described me :) The only exception is that I am a cradle-Catholic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Teri, you have just described me <img src='http://www.internetmonk.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  The only exception is that I am a cradle-Catholic.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Robertz</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/riffs-102009-the-status-of-the-reformation-according-to-9-marks-and-b16/comment-page-1#comment-516558</link>
		<dc:creator>Robertz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Oct 2009 08:48:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=4840#comment-516558</guid>
		<description>Here is what the Church teaches about Justification both before, during, and after the protestant rebellion. The Truth remains the Truth no matter how many corrupt and/or ignorant clergy and laity there are in the Church who may have chosen to personally teach and act differently, regardless of whether or not they are in the majority.

James 2 RSV
13  	For judgment is without mercy to one who has shown no mercy; yet mercy triumphs over 
judgment.
14 	What does it profit, my brethren, if a man says he has faith but has not works? Can his
faith save him?
15 	If a brother or sister is ill-clad and in lack of daily food,
16 	and one of you says to them, &quot;Go in peace, be warmed and filled,&quot; without giving them the
things needed for the body, what does it profit?
17 	So faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead.
18 	But some one will say, &quot;You have faith and I have works.&quot; Show me your faith apart from
your works, and I by my works will show you my faith.
19 	You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe -- and shudder.
20 	Do you want to be shown, you shallow man, that faith apart from works is barren?
21 	Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he offered his son Isaac upon the 
altar?
22 	You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by works,
23 	and the scripture was fulfilled which says, &quot;Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to 
him as righteousness&quot;; and he was called the friend of God.
24 	You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.
25 	And in the same way was not also Rahab the harlot justified by works when she received 
the messengers and sent them out another way?
26 	For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so faith apart from works is dead.

This is the only location in the Bible where the phrase &quot;faith alone&quot; is found. The Church teaches salvation by grace alone, received from Christ alone by merit of His passion, crucifixion, and resurrection. Both faith and works (faith in action, active and passive) are given to us by grace alone from Christ Himself alone as the source, that we are free to accept or reject according to the free will given to us by God. For even the demons have faith, yet have eternally chosen to reject the works. The fallen angels were eternally ejected from Heaven not because they no longer believed in God, but that they rejected what that belief required of them. Obedience, opposite of the sin of pride.

There is only one Church, one Faith, regardless of the number of wayward children. Since we are fallible, Christ provided a way to recognize this Church and Faith (of which Christ is the head) by granting the keys (symbol used in the OT for the tranfering of authority) to bind and loose through the guidance of the Holy Spirit, with the promise that the gates of Hades would never prevail against the Church. We all accept the inerrant Bible. If the Holy Spirit(Ghost) had the power, the ability, to enable human hands (of fallible human beings) to infallibly put the Word down onto paper and to discern the canon, then the Spirit certainly has that same power and ability to ensure the one Church infallibly maintains official (that which is to be held by all) matters of faith and morals regardless of the fallibility of human beings themselves and their sinful nature against the Truth the Holy Ghost guarantees. This requires absolute faith and trust in God that He could ensure that the infallible Truth remains with us fallible human beings. It is noteworthy that 7 whole books of the Bible and sections of 2 others were removed shortly after separation from this one Church (and thereby doctrinal infallibility) by those who unscripturally claim that the Bible is the only source of authority (which removing books from the Bible requires an authority outside of the Bible as it contains no list of canon), and who claim upmost reverence for the Bible. Even the early edition of the KJV included the full canon before the later removal of these books. Since the canon of the Bible is not in the Bible, Protestants do accept Holy Tradition in some form as well since it is the way they are aware of the Bible itself and the books to be included within, except the ones they threw out on personal authority. Protestants have not truly rejected the notion of infallibility as the Church defines it. They have merely transferred it from the Church itself in union with the keys of Peter, to each individual themselves where personal infallibility allows one to interpretation that may be used to twist and misuse Holy Scripture and Tradition (historicity) according to their own whims.

Christians are allowed to read the Bible for their own education and spiritual growth, but interpretations must be in union with the Church as instituted by Christ. This is the doctrinal unity that the &#039;Catholic&#039; Church has that the Protestant churches will never attain while remaining separate from the Church. Peace in Christ.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here is what the Church teaches about Justification both before, during, and after the protestant rebellion. The Truth remains the Truth no matter how many corrupt and/or ignorant clergy and laity there are in the Church who may have chosen to personally teach and act differently, regardless of whether or not they are in the majority.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=James+2" class="bibleref" title="ESV James 2">James 2</a> RSV<br />
13  	For judgment is without mercy to one who has shown no mercy; yet mercy triumphs over<br />
judgment.<br />
14 	What does it profit, my brethren, if a man says he has faith but has not works? Can his<br />
faith save him?<br />
15 	If a brother or sister is ill-clad and in lack of daily food,<br />
16 	and one of you says to them, &#8220;Go in peace, be warmed and filled,&#8221; without giving them the<br />
things needed for the body, what does it profit?<br />
17 	So faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead.<br />
18 	But some one will say, &#8220;You have faith and I have works.&#8221; Show me your faith apart from<br />
your works, and I by my works will show you my faith.<br />
19 	You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe &#8212; and shudder.<br />
20 	Do you want to be shown, you shallow man, that faith apart from works is barren?<br />
21 	Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he offered his son Isaac upon the<br />
altar?<br />
22 	You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by works,<br />
23 	and the scripture was fulfilled which says, &#8220;Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to<br />
him as righteousness&#8221;; and he was called the friend of God.<br />
24 	You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.<br />
25 	And in the same way was not also Rahab the harlot justified by works when she received<br />
the messengers and sent them out another way?<br />
26 	For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so faith apart from works is dead.</p>
<p>This is the only location in the Bible where the phrase &#8220;faith alone&#8221; is found. The Church teaches salvation by grace alone, received from Christ alone by merit of His passion, crucifixion, and resurrection. Both faith and works (faith in action, active and passive) are given to us by grace alone from Christ Himself alone as the source, that we are free to accept or reject according to the free will given to us by God. For even the demons have faith, yet have eternally chosen to reject the works. The fallen angels were eternally ejected from Heaven not because they no longer believed in God, but that they rejected what that belief required of them. Obedience, opposite of the sin of pride.</p>
<p>There is only one Church, one Faith, regardless of the number of wayward children. Since we are fallible, Christ provided a way to recognize this Church and Faith (of which Christ is the head) by granting the keys (symbol used in the OT for the tranfering of authority) to bind and loose through the guidance of the Holy Spirit, with the promise that the gates of Hades would never prevail against the Church. We all accept the inerrant Bible. If the Holy Spirit(Ghost) had the power, the ability, to enable human hands (of fallible human beings) to infallibly put the Word down onto paper and to discern the canon, then the Spirit certainly has that same power and ability to ensure the one Church infallibly maintains official (that which is to be held by all) matters of faith and morals regardless of the fallibility of human beings themselves and their sinful nature against the Truth the Holy Ghost guarantees. This requires absolute faith and trust in God that He could ensure that the infallible Truth remains with us fallible human beings. It is noteworthy that 7 whole books of the Bible and sections of 2 others were removed shortly after separation from this one Church (and thereby doctrinal infallibility) by those who unscripturally claim that the Bible is the only source of authority (which removing books from the Bible requires an authority outside of the Bible as it contains no list of canon), and who claim upmost reverence for the Bible. Even the early edition of the KJV included the full canon before the later removal of these books. Since the canon of the Bible is not in the Bible, Protestants do accept Holy Tradition in some form as well since it is the way they are aware of the Bible itself and the books to be included within, except the ones they threw out on personal authority. Protestants have not truly rejected the notion of infallibility as the Church defines it. They have merely transferred it from the Church itself in union with the keys of Peter, to each individual themselves where personal infallibility allows one to interpretation that may be used to twist and misuse Holy Scripture and Tradition (historicity) according to their own whims.</p>
<p>Christians are allowed to read the Bible for their own education and spiritual growth, but interpretations must be in union with the Church as instituted by Christ. This is the doctrinal unity that the &#8216;Catholic&#8217; Church has that the Protestant churches will never attain while remaining separate from the Church. Peace in Christ.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Melissa</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/riffs-102009-the-status-of-the-reformation-according-to-9-marks-and-b16/comment-page-1#comment-516505</link>
		<dc:creator>Melissa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Oct 2009 16:53:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=4840#comment-516505</guid>
		<description>Anna -
Your reply made me laugh, because you did exactly what you said that Jason did.

Typical protestant unity is not based on any sort of hierarchy, so to assume that because two people aren&#039;t under the same hierarchy that they aren&#039;t &quot;unified&quot; misses the entire point. The RCC views it&#039;self AS The Body, which contains it&#039;s hierarchy which must be maintained or The Body is not unified. Protestants view themselves as PART of The Body, which contains the hierarchies of all Christian churches. So to &quot;part ways&quot; is not to destroy the unity, since the unity wasn&#039;t based on an allegiance to a hierarchy to begin with.

A more succinct way to put it might be that Protestants believe they are in unity if they are living at peace with one another (on a personal as well as ecumenical level). They do not feel that different leadership structures invalidate that unity. Rather, they allow people to find where they fit, lessening the conflict and thereby increasing the unity.

It is not a unity achieved by being identical. It is a unity achieved by admitting that we are different.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anna -<br />
Your reply made me laugh, because you did exactly what you said that Jason did.</p>
<p>Typical protestant unity is not based on any sort of hierarchy, so to assume that because two people aren&#8217;t under the same hierarchy that they aren&#8217;t &#8220;unified&#8221; misses the entire point. The RCC views it&#8217;self AS The Body, which contains it&#8217;s hierarchy which must be maintained or The Body is not unified. Protestants view themselves as PART of The Body, which contains the hierarchies of all Christian churches. So to &#8220;part ways&#8221; is not to destroy the unity, since the unity wasn&#8217;t based on an allegiance to a hierarchy to begin with.</p>
<p>A more succinct way to put it might be that Protestants believe they are in unity if they are living at peace with one another (on a personal as well as ecumenical level). They do not feel that different leadership structures invalidate that unity. Rather, they allow people to find where they fit, lessening the conflict and thereby increasing the unity.</p>
<p>It is not a unity achieved by being identical. It is a unity achieved by admitting that we are different.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Matthew N. Petersen</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/riffs-102009-the-status-of-the-reformation-according-to-9-marks-and-b16/comment-page-1#comment-516441</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew N. Petersen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Oct 2009 01:09:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=4840#comment-516441</guid>
		<description>I think you&#039;re right, but we must remember the gospel isn&#039;t &quot;Christ uses this mechanism to save you&quot; but &quot;Jesus Christ, the Son of God is risen from the dead.&quot;  At least that&#039;s what St. Paul says in I Corinthians.  Catholics might have the apparatus of that wrong, Orthodox might, we Magisterial Protestants might (I&#039;m FV Reformed), or the evangelicals might.  But the fundamental thing isn&#039;t &quot;how does Christ save&quot; but &quot;Christ is risen from the dead.&quot;  And the Catholic Church teaches that we should trust the resurrection at least as much as most Protestants do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you&#8217;re right, but we must remember the gospel isn&#8217;t &#8220;Christ uses this mechanism to save you&#8221; but &#8220;Jesus Christ, the Son of God is risen from the dead.&#8221;  At least that&#8217;s what St. Paul says in I Corinthians.  Catholics might have the apparatus of that wrong, Orthodox might, we Magisterial Protestants might (I&#8217;m FV Reformed), or the evangelicals might.  But the fundamental thing isn&#8217;t &#8220;how does Christ save&#8221; but &#8220;Christ is risen from the dead.&#8221;  And the Catholic Church teaches that we should trust the resurrection at least as much as most Protestants do.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: o.h.</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/riffs-102009-the-status-of-the-reformation-according-to-9-marks-and-b16/comment-page-1#comment-516279</link>
		<dc:creator>o.h.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Oct 2009 17:35:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=4840#comment-516279</guid>
		<description>Martha, 

For a very long time, it was depressingly common in North America to give kids their First Communion without requiring confession. In fact, I was received into the Church in the &#039;80&#039;s as a college student, and was confirmed and received Communion without ever making a sacramental confession (yes, I&#039;d already been baptized).

Fortunately these things are less common now. But Jason&#039;s memories ring true.

Anyway, not that Jason cares (and there&#039;s no reason he should), but a 12-year-old child who leaves the Church isn&#039;t usually considered to have any culpability for so doing. (This question was discussed recently in the Catholic blogosphere regarding Sarah Palin, whose family likewise left the Church when she was an adolescent.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Martha, </p>
<p>For a very long time, it was depressingly common in North America to give kids their First Communion without requiring confession. In fact, I was received into the Church in the &#8217;80&#8217;s as a college student, and was confirmed and received Communion without ever making a sacramental confession (yes, I&#8217;d already been baptized).</p>
<p>Fortunately these things are less common now. But Jason&#8217;s memories ring true.</p>
<p>Anyway, not that Jason cares (and there&#8217;s no reason he should), but a 12-year-old child who leaves the Church isn&#8217;t usually considered to have any culpability for so doing. (This question was discussed recently in the Catholic blogosphere regarding Sarah Palin, whose family likewise left the Church when she was an adolescent.)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jason Chamberlain</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/riffs-102009-the-status-of-the-reformation-according-to-9-marks-and-b16/comment-page-1#comment-516272</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Chamberlain</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Oct 2009 15:18:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=4840#comment-516272</guid>
		<description>Anna,

My point is just that we Protestants could also make some claims to unity, but the kind of disunity that Headless Unicorn Guy mocks seems to be just as rampant within the RCC.  It&#039;s just a different flavor.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anna,</p>
<p>My point is just that we Protestants could also make some claims to unity, but the kind of disunity that Headless Unicorn Guy mocks seems to be just as rampant within the RCC.  It&#8217;s just a different flavor.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: RonP</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/riffs-102009-the-status-of-the-reformation-according-to-9-marks-and-b16/comment-page-1#comment-516265</link>
		<dc:creator>RonP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Oct 2009 06:39:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=4840#comment-516265</guid>
		<description>&quot;Could we all ask ourselves this question: How could I meet other Christians halfway, and not demand that they become like me to be legitimate?&quot;
That&#039;s a good question, Michael. And I think a lot of meeting halfway is going on out there, but most of it is of the person-to-person, under-the-radar variety -- by which I mean Christians from different religious backgrounds forming close friendships with each other and even looking to each other for spiritual support in ways such as praying for and with each other and lending a listening ear when it comes to things that Christians often don&#039;t feel free to talk about in their own church context. Of course, for friendships like this to work, there can be no secret agenda to convert the other to your brand of Christianity. But, if kept agenda free, I think millions of friendships like this could go a long way toward taking the edge off some of the divisions within modern Christendom.
Beyond what I&#039;ve heard, read, seen in movies, and watched briefly on EWTN, I know very little about Catholicism, and, to be honest, it seems a bit strange and alien to me -- which quite naturally breeds a certain level of predujice, if only at the subconscious level. I suspect that a close friendship with a dedicated Catholic (if I could find one in this backwoods, utterly Protestant corner of the Bible belt I live in) would help bring my understanding of Catholicism forward out of the Dark Ages. And if I could observe with my own senses that the fruits of the Spirit and the love of Christ are present in the life of a Catholic believer I know personally, that would make it very difficult for me to base my opinion of Catholicism on the Spanish Inquisition. Heck, just reading comments from Catholic believers on this blogsite has done a lot in expanding my thinking.
Of course, it would help greatly if many church and denominational leaders weren&#039;t so paranoid about letting their sheep mingle with the contaminated sheep from other flocks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Could we all ask ourselves this question: How could I meet other Christians halfway, and not demand that they become like me to be legitimate?&#8221;<br />
That&#8217;s a good question, Michael. And I think a lot of meeting halfway is going on out there, but most of it is of the person-to-person, under-the-radar variety &#8212; by which I mean Christians from different religious backgrounds forming close friendships with each other and even looking to each other for spiritual support in ways such as praying for and with each other and lending a listening ear when it comes to things that Christians often don&#8217;t feel free to talk about in their own church context. Of course, for friendships like this to work, there can be no secret agenda to convert the other to your brand of Christianity. But, if kept agenda free, I think millions of friendships like this could go a long way toward taking the edge off some of the divisions within modern Christendom.<br />
Beyond what I&#8217;ve heard, read, seen in movies, and watched briefly on EWTN, I know very little about Catholicism, and, to be honest, it seems a bit strange and alien to me &#8212; which quite naturally breeds a certain level of predujice, if only at the subconscious level. I suspect that a close friendship with a dedicated Catholic (if I could find one in this backwoods, utterly Protestant corner of the Bible belt I live in) would help bring my understanding of Catholicism forward out of the Dark Ages. And if I could observe with my own senses that the fruits of the Spirit and the love of Christ are present in the life of a Catholic believer I know personally, that would make it very difficult for me to base my opinion of Catholicism on the Spanish Inquisition. Heck, just reading comments from Catholic believers on this blogsite has done a lot in expanding my thinking.<br />
Of course, it would help greatly if many church and denominational leaders weren&#8217;t so paranoid about letting their sheep mingle with the contaminated sheep from other flocks.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: GalatianMan</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/riffs-102009-the-status-of-the-reformation-according-to-9-marks-and-b16/comment-page-1#comment-516251</link>
		<dc:creator>GalatianMan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 23:30:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=4840#comment-516251</guid>
		<description>Freeman   Are you suggesting that the Gospel Paul preaches in Galatians and Romans is different than John, Luke, or Mark teach? I think not. The scarlet thread of redemption is clear throughout the scriptures; from the sacrificial foreshadowings to the ultimate perfect sacrifice of our Lord Jesus Christ. There is no other gospel. The good news is that Yeshua Messiah has paid for all our sins through His shed blood on the cross satisfying the wrath of God against sin. I trust by Faith that Jesus blood did satisfy God&#039;s wrath. It has to be by faith because I cannot explain in any rational way how a blood sacrifice could do that. God says &quot;without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sins&quot;. I only bring up Galatians because this is where Paul dealt with it head on. Good men who said they believed in Jesus as the Messiah were telling Gentiles that they needed to believe that AND be a convet to Judaism to be a REAL Christian. The current Pope pretty much says the same thing, that those of us who are not RCC but believe in Jesus are not enjoying the &quot;fullness of the church&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Freeman   Are you suggesting that the Gospel Paul preaches in Galatians and Romans is different than John, Luke, or Mark teach? I think not. The scarlet thread of redemption is clear throughout the scriptures; from the sacrificial foreshadowings to the ultimate perfect sacrifice of our Lord Jesus Christ. There is no other gospel. The good news is that Yeshua Messiah has paid for all our sins through His shed blood on the cross satisfying the wrath of God against sin. I trust by Faith that Jesus blood did satisfy God&#8217;s wrath. It has to be by faith because I cannot explain in any rational way how a blood sacrifice could do that. God says &#8220;without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sins&#8221;. I only bring up Galatians because this is where Paul dealt with it head on. Good men who said they believed in Jesus as the Messiah were telling Gentiles that they needed to believe that AND be a convet to Judaism to be a REAL Christian. The current Pope pretty much says the same thing, that those of us who are not RCC but believe in Jesus are not enjoying the &#8220;fullness of the church&#8221;.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Martha</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/riffs-102009-the-status-of-the-reformation-according-to-9-marks-and-b16/comment-page-1#comment-516249</link>
		<dc:creator>Martha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 22:37:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=4840#comment-516249</guid>
		<description>Ah, indulgences!

DLE, it may surprise you to know that indulgences never went away.  There are many, many ways of gaining indulgences.  

There are plenary and partial indulgences, and you get them through prayers, novenas, pious practices, and the likes.  No payment changes hands.

The news story you quote about the local church announcing indulgences probably means that there is a novena.  As you say, there is a &quot;re-emphasizing&quot; because of all the old devotions that were downgraded and neglected after Vatican II, but which were never done away with, and now the Church is re-discovering her heritage.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah, indulgences!</p>
<p>DLE, it may surprise you to know that indulgences never went away.  There are many, many ways of gaining indulgences.  </p>
<p>There are plenary and partial indulgences, and you get them through prayers, novenas, pious practices, and the likes.  No payment changes hands.</p>
<p>The news story you quote about the local church announcing indulgences probably means that there is a novena.  As you say, there is a &#8220;re-emphasizing&#8221; because of all the old devotions that were downgraded and neglected after Vatican II, but which were never done away with, and now the Church is re-discovering her heritage.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
