I suspect it’s somewhere around 0%.

Completely “now-oriented” and unable to think abstractly — that’s not human, that’s an ANIMAL.

I think that some, even in youth, are very able to make the separation between medium and message. But I wonder whether this ability doesn’t come at a price. The divide may make for other difficulties later, even if such youth are easier to reach even with a bad program. There is a spectrum here as to how people are wired. And people on either end can miss opportunities if they imagine all are like themselves. This is true of leaders who would imagine that they should always be able to reach people through the mind no matter what else goes on during the retreat in other areas. And it is true of those who would imagine that they should not present any intellectual content that cannot be grasped by the most practical, now-oriented youth who is lost in the first moment of abstraction. (This is in part an argument for a variety of youth leaders when that is possible.)

And don’t forget that camel caravan pulling in on the Hadj to Mecca.

My feelings about much of the evangelical church are similar to yours as much as I love many people who are in it. It’s partly why I became Orthodox: so I could be spared Joel Osteen and Joyce Myers. And kickin’ worship bands. And amusement park Sunday school. *shudder* And you’re right; those are the symptoms of the disease. I believe that God will preserve His church, but the Bible warns of false prophets. Lord, have mercy on us and save our souls.

Now we’ve got Joel Osteen’s books on prominent display in the Deseret Bookstore in Salt Lake City. Right next to the infestation of Stephen Covey books.

Thanks a lot guys.

Next time evangelicaldom decides to have a midlife crisis, you think you could keep it in Texas maybe?

Their method was to tire the kids out with competitive games, with prizes for the winners (or best cheaters). Then at the end of it, having (they hoped) tired them out so they would sit still and not fidget they had a “45 minute special” which ended with a sermon on salvation by grace.

They had obviously never read Marshall McLuhan, knew nothing about the medium being the message, and failed to see that two hours of experiential education in the values of competition and cheaters are winners and sucks to the losers, you could not reverse that indoctrination by a purely verbal 45-minute message on salvation by grace.

The trouble is that for the last 40 years most evangelicals have completely failed to see that the values of entrepreneurial capitalism and the teaching of salvation by grace are diametrically opposite, and no man can serve two masters.

(BTW,if I’m still not getting what is meant by ‘evangelicalism is dead’ please feel free to set me straight. There are always those in the class that need things repeated.:-))

>…something more impactful than venting on a blog..

***actual quote from unpublished comment****

And while I’m venting let’s cover some others:

-I’ve served the church for 30+ years and continue to do so at a salary that is about what most Americans spend on burgers each year. Don’t tell me to do something “impactful” if you haven’t read the author’s page and have some idea what I am doing with my life.

-Don’t assume that one post represents all I or others have to say on the topic.

-Don’t ignore comments where I’ve said what I mean by “evangelicalism is dead.”

-In fact, consider this: I’ve never, in 7 years of blogging, left a “cold comment” on a blog that I was reading. I just don’t know enough to insert myself as authoritative based on what someone took 5 minutes to write in his pajamas. I really love my commenters, but people who go from blog to blog leaving comments that sound like the last word need to consider giving it up for Lent.