Comments on: Riffs: 01:18:09: Are Southern Baptists Getting It? Maybe. http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/riffs-011809-are-southern-baptists-getting-it-maybe ...dispatches from the post-evangelical wilderness Sun, 21 Mar 2010 23:41:25 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Ron http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/riffs-011809-are-southern-baptists-getting-it-maybe/comment-page-1#comment-438151 Ron Sun, 26 Apr 2009 07:37:18 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=2737#comment-438151 I grew up in a SBC church and originally came to know Christ in that context, and, though I am no longer part of that denomination (or any denomination, for that matter) I have always desired to see them break through some of the walls that keep them locked up in their distictive religious box. They seem to come so close sometimes, but then someone snaps the denominational whip and they step back into the same old line. Recently, a comtemporary praise and worship band of which I am part was invited to play at a youth rally at a relatively small Baptist church in a relatively small community in West Tennessee -- which is somewhat surprising, considering that none of us are Baptists. And, from what I remember from my own youth, it was the typical Baptist youth rally: pizza in the fellowship hall, 20 minutes of music (led by us), a 30-minute sermon by a visiting pastor/evangelist type, capped off with the extended (seemingly never-ending) alter call, while we softly played emotionally tugging music in the background. As the youth pastor pleaded with the teenagers to come down and make a profession of faith (lest they get killed in a car wreck on the way home and go to hell), I can remember feeling a strong urging from the Holy Spirit that something else entirely needed to be happening at that moment. What the Spirit communicated to me was that these kids desperately needed an opportunity to just talk -- not give official testimonies from their pews, but rather to gather together informally and share what was on their hearts with each other and with their adult leaders. They needed someone to listen to them with open ears and hearts without a preset agenda or any time pressures to keep the program rolling. In short, God seemed to be saying that He wanted to speak through these kids, rather than through we professional Christians up on the stage. I came dangerously close to actually speaking up and trying to instigate such a thing, but, much to my shame, I chickened out. As a visitor and a nonBaptist, I was afraid I would get stoned (or at least pelted with unapproving frowns). As part of a simple/home-based church, I sometimes forget that many of my brothers and sisters in Christ within institutional churchianity do not enjoy the simple, Christ-given freedom to share absolutely anything that God places on their hearts without fear of persecution from their fellow believers. It just seems strange and unnatural. I wish I had the power or know-how to impart that kind of freedom to them, but, at the end of the day, they are going to have to reach out and grasp true freedom in Christ for themselves. I grew up in a SBC church and originally came to know Christ in that context, and, though I am no longer part of that denomination (or any denomination, for that matter) I have always desired to see them break through some of the walls that keep them locked up in their distictive religious box. They seem to come so close sometimes, but then someone snaps the denominational whip and they step back into the same old line.
Recently, a comtemporary praise and worship band of which I am part was invited to play at a youth rally at a relatively small Baptist church in a relatively small community in West Tennessee — which is somewhat surprising, considering that none of us are Baptists. And, from what I remember from my own youth, it was the typical Baptist youth rally: pizza in the fellowship hall, 20 minutes of music (led by us), a 30-minute sermon by a visiting pastor/evangelist type, capped off with the extended (seemingly never-ending) alter call, while we softly played emotionally tugging music in the background.
As the youth pastor pleaded with the teenagers to come down and make a profession of faith (lest they get killed in a car wreck on the way home and go to hell), I can remember feeling a strong urging from the Holy Spirit that something else entirely needed to be happening at that moment. What the Spirit communicated to me was that these kids desperately needed an opportunity to just talk — not give official testimonies from their pews, but rather to gather together informally and share what was on their hearts with each other and with their adult leaders. They needed someone to listen to them with open ears and hearts without a preset agenda or any time pressures to keep the program rolling. In short, God seemed to be saying that He wanted to speak through these kids, rather than through we professional Christians up on the stage.
I came dangerously close to actually speaking up and trying to instigate such a thing, but, much to my shame, I chickened out. As a visitor and a nonBaptist, I was afraid I would get stoned (or at least pelted with unapproving frowns).
As part of a simple/home-based church, I sometimes forget that many of my brothers and sisters in Christ within institutional churchianity do not enjoy the simple, Christ-given freedom to share absolutely anything that God places on their hearts without fear of persecution from their fellow believers. It just seems strange and unnatural. I wish I had the power or know-how to impart that kind of freedom to them, but, at the end of the day, they are going to have to reach out and grasp true freedom in Christ for themselves.

]]> By: BroBell http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/riffs-011809-are-southern-baptists-getting-it-maybe/comment-page-1#comment-381764 BroBell Thu, 26 Feb 2009 04:56:33 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=2737#comment-381764 Since when is being a Baptist a bad thing... Recently there was a BIG discussion at our local church on whether we should change our name. Some surveys have stated that having "First" in the name leads one to think that this particular congregation is all high and mighty or snobbish. Some of the same surveys stated that having the word "Baptist" in the name keeps people away. Since when has being first in an area to establish a baptist church been a bad thing? When did the word "baptist" start being offensive? Maybe I'm just old school but that's not the "in" thing to be either. The reason I call myself a Baptist: My understanding and my interpretation of the Holy Bible (God's inspired word written by the hand of man) aligns with the Southern Baptist Convention's statement of faith. This statement of faith is called the Baptist Faith & Message. Now with that being said, I am a sinner saved by the grace that was provided by the sacrifice of the only Son of God whose name was Jesus. The process of striving to be like Jesus Christ is call being a Christian. Above all, I am a Christian first, husband second, father third, and Baptist further down the list. The question was asked, "would we be willing to remove any barrier to bring a lost soul to salvation?". Short answer would be "Yes" but you really need to look closer at what that person's barrier is. Saying that the word "Baptist" is their barrier is like saying the reason they haven't accepted Christ as their savior is because they ran out of peanut butter. They are finding an excuse. BroBell Since when is being a Baptist a bad thing…

Recently there was a BIG discussion at our local church on whether we should change our name. Some surveys have stated that having “First” in the name leads one to think that this particular congregation is all high and mighty or snobbish. Some of the same surveys stated that having the word “Baptist” in the name keeps people away.

Since when has being first in an area to establish a baptist church been a bad thing?

When did the word “baptist” start being offensive?

Maybe I’m just old school but that’s not the “in” thing to be either.

The reason I call myself a Baptist:

My understanding and my interpretation of the Holy Bible (God’s inspired word written by the hand of man) aligns with the Southern Baptist Convention’s statement of faith. This statement of faith is called the Baptist Faith & Message.

Now with that being said, I am a sinner saved by the grace that was provided by the sacrifice of the only Son of God whose name was Jesus. The process of striving to be like Jesus Christ is call being a Christian. Above all, I am a Christian first, husband second, father third, and Baptist further down the list.

The question was asked, “would we be willing to remove any barrier to bring a lost soul to salvation?”. Short answer would be “Yes” but you really need to look closer at what that person’s barrier is. Saying that the word “Baptist” is their barrier is like saying the reason they haven’t accepted Christ as their savior is because they ran out of peanut butter. They are finding an excuse.

BroBell

]]> By: Leon H http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/riffs-011809-are-southern-baptists-getting-it-maybe/comment-page-1#comment-377138 Leon H Mon, 16 Feb 2009 05:56:54 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=2737#comment-377138 PS. I forgot to tell you that I am 40 years old, married to my kindergarten sweetheart, have two children, am a high school chemistry teacher, attend a rural local Southern Baptist Church, an ordained deacon, but consider myself a Christian first and Baptist second. PS.
I forgot to tell you that I am 40 years old, married to my kindergarten sweetheart, have two children, am a high school chemistry teacher, attend a rural local Southern Baptist Church, an ordained deacon, but consider myself a Christian first and Baptist second.

]]> By: Leon H http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/riffs-011809-are-southern-baptists-getting-it-maybe/comment-page-1#comment-377137 Leon H Mon, 16 Feb 2009 05:54:10 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=2737#comment-377137 Greetings Fellow Christians, How do most people answer the question of faith? How many respond simply with Baptist, Methodist, Catholic, or the like? Why do we spend so much time with these names that proclaim a divided Body of Christ? We are all Christians first and whatever group last. The covenant in front of my Bible says that 'we do now, in the presence of God, and this assembly, most solemnly and joyfully enter into covenant with one another as one body in Christ.' It goes on to say that we are with the aid of the Holy Spirit walk together in Christian love, advance this church, promote the church, sustain worship, contribute to the support of the ministry, spread the Gospel through all nations, watch over each other in brotherly love, remember each in prayer, slow in taking offense, be ready for reconciliation, and when we leave to unite with others to continue to advance the principles of God's Worship. I have been in other churches for various functions, including worship, and have always longed for the small Baptist Church I grew up in. Until recently,we (same small Church)have always been insulated from the outside influences of the world. Only when we initiated 'change' have we started to fail. For sure we have always been small in numbers, but our family members have spread far from home and taken the foundation of Christ with them. Some have been part of a new group of Christians in their new homes and grown and prospered. Some have even returned to join again with those who remained. The returning brothers and sisters, just like the son, have grown here and have built a foundation for the next group to be able to go out again. Many have advocated the use of change, the use of the world culture, and whatever to bring more people to Christ. New music, new technology, recognition of diversity, and packaging have all been adopted by many to fuel growth among today's people (children, youth, and adults.) I have an observation to add to this trend, watch the youth. As a high school teacher, I see the children who attend (1)mega churches (for our area), (2) store-front churches, and (3) no church. This is where the depressing realization hits home---the students are hard, if not impossible, to determine, who goes where and who believes what. One teen had on a t-shirt proclaiming Jesus but acting like someone who has never even heard of God, Jesus, and the Church. So change does not always work. This portrayal is most dangerous to the one who is on the edge of discovering that they are lost. They see a 'christian' acting like everyone else, so maybe I am one too? I realize that we (as a human, as a group, as a Church, as Christians) have not always done things perfectly; but, are we not all sinners that have been redeemed by the Blood of Christ, through the Love, Grace, and Mercy of God? Things in this world are not going well, we as Christians are loosing the battle--because we are not fully relying on God, the Father, Jesus, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. We can have all of the meetings, conferences, organizations, blogs, and rock throwing parties from now until the Savior returns --all will fall and fail until we return to God, to the discovery of the Will of God through the understanding and reading of His Word in the Bible,to keeping his ordinances, to daily Prayer, to keeping the world's culture at a distance, to being Christ centered, to being a Christian. Personally I pray that not only will the SBC 'Get It' but all of God's Christians will return to the fold before the time runs out and judgement begins. Thank you for reading, for your prayers, and for being fellow Christians. May God bless you and keep you. Greetings Fellow Christians, How do most people answer the question of faith? How many respond simply with Baptist, Methodist, Catholic, or the like? Why do we spend so much time with these names that proclaim a divided Body of Christ? We are all Christians first and whatever group last. The covenant in front of my Bible says that ‘we do now, in the presence of God, and this assembly, most solemnly and joyfully enter into covenant with one another as one body in Christ.’ It goes on to say that we are with the aid of the Holy Spirit walk together in Christian love, advance this church, promote the church, sustain worship, contribute to the support of the ministry, spread the Gospel through all nations, watch over each other in brotherly love, remember each in prayer, slow in taking offense, be ready for reconciliation, and when we leave to unite with others to continue to advance the principles of God’s Worship.
I have been in other churches for various functions, including worship, and have always longed for the small Baptist Church I grew up in. Until recently,we (same small Church)have always been insulated from the outside influences of the world. Only when we initiated ‘change’ have we started to fail. For sure we have always been small in numbers, but our family members have spread far from home and taken the foundation of Christ with them. Some have been part of a new group of Christians in their new homes and grown and prospered. Some have even returned to join again with those who remained. The returning brothers and sisters, just like the son, have grown here and have built a foundation for the next group to be able to go out again.
Many have advocated the use of change, the use of the world culture, and whatever to bring more people to Christ. New music, new technology, recognition of diversity, and packaging have all been adopted by many to fuel growth among today’s people (children, youth, and adults.)
I have an observation to add to this trend, watch the youth. As a high school teacher, I see the children who attend (1)mega churches (for our area), (2) store-front churches, and (3) no church. This is where the depressing realization hits home—the students are hard, if not impossible, to determine, who goes where and who believes what. One teen had on a t-shirt proclaiming Jesus but acting like someone who has never even heard of God, Jesus, and the Church. So change does not always work. This portrayal is most dangerous to the one who is on the edge of discovering that they are lost. They see a ‘christian’ acting like everyone else, so maybe I am one too?
I realize that we (as a human, as a group, as a Church, as Christians) have not always done things perfectly; but, are we not all sinners that have been redeemed by the Blood of Christ, through the Love, Grace, and Mercy of God? Things in this world are not going well, we as Christians are loosing the battle–because we are not fully relying on God, the Father, Jesus, the Son, and the Holy Ghost.
We can have all of the meetings, conferences, organizations, blogs, and rock throwing parties from now until the Savior returns –all will fall and fail until we return to God, to the discovery of the Will of God through the understanding and reading of His Word in the Bible,to keeping his ordinances, to daily Prayer, to keeping the world’s culture at a distance, to being Christ centered, to being a Christian.
Personally I pray that not only will the SBC ‘Get It’ but all of God’s Christians will return to the fold before the time runs out and judgement begins.
Thank you for reading, for your prayers, and for being fellow Christians. May God bless you and keep you.

]]> By: Sherry http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/riffs-011809-are-southern-baptists-getting-it-maybe/comment-page-1#comment-365220 Sherry Tue, 20 Jan 2009 20:52:04 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=2737#comment-365220 Ummmm I am SBC born and bred, but now a member of another denomination. I miss the SBC. And I feel the need to defend them. Could it be that what you call "gospel in a box" is an attempt to encourage churches to do the very thing you advocate: "make the Gospel, once again, the central focus of the cooperative, evangelistic, mission-centered ministry of Southern Baptists"? Maybe its a bad "program". maybe it won't help anyone anywhere to actually live and preach the Gospel. I don't know. I haven't seen the latest program, and even if I did, I'd hate to be the one to say that it's worthless. Lots of people have come to their first knowledge of the gospel through what I thought were gimmicky or inadequate approaches (How To Have a Full and Meaningful Life or The FOur Spiritual Laws anyone?) Sure these canned presentations of the Gospel can, and probably should be criticized, but God can use lots of bent sticks and even programs. And have you got a better idea? HOW exactly do you propose to get the SBC or any other group of imperfect Christians to focus on the Gospel, preach the Gospel, and live the Gospel. NO programs, NO literature, and NO conferences. Then what? Ummmm I am SBC born and bred, but now a member of another denomination. I miss the SBC.

And I feel the need to defend them. Could it be that what you call “gospel in a box” is an attempt to encourage churches to do the very thing you advocate: “make the Gospel, once again, the central focus of the cooperative, evangelistic, mission-centered ministry of Southern Baptists”? Maybe its a bad “program”. maybe it won’t help anyone anywhere to actually live and preach the Gospel. I don’t know. I haven’t seen the latest program, and even if I did, I’d hate to be the one to say that it’s worthless. Lots of people have come to their first knowledge of the gospel through what I thought were gimmicky or inadequate approaches (How To Have a Full and Meaningful Life or The FOur Spiritual Laws anyone?) Sure these canned presentations of the Gospel can, and probably should be criticized, but God can use lots of bent sticks and even programs.

And have you got a better idea? HOW exactly do you propose to get the SBC or any other group of imperfect Christians to focus on the Gospel, preach the Gospel, and live the Gospel. NO programs, NO literature, and NO conferences. Then what?

]]> By: Robert Angison http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/riffs-011809-are-southern-baptists-getting-it-maybe/comment-page-1#comment-365196 Robert Angison Tue, 20 Jan 2009 19:33:59 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=2737#comment-365196 Good post. We have too many self promoters and not enough authentic Gospel promoters. You are the Church! Robert Angison Good post. We have too many self promoters and not enough authentic Gospel promoters.

You are the Church!
Robert Angison

]]> By: Carolyn http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/riffs-011809-are-southern-baptists-getting-it-maybe/comment-page-1#comment-365154 Carolyn Tue, 20 Jan 2009 16:44:51 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=2737#comment-365154 Austin, Karen, Peaches, Jeff M, Christopher Lake: I'm so encouraged to hear 'good' being done within the communities. 'Out there' is where the needs are...and 'out there' reaches right up to our yards. A young woman crossed my path who needed a ride to a Rehabilitation program..twice weekly, for twenty-eight weeks. She's had four children taken from her. She's in her twenties and never been married. I tell her who she is in God and what she can become...if you uses her intellectual power constructively rather than destructively. This week she's beginning classes to get a GED. She's gonna make it! God loves her so very much and so do I. God bless. Austin, Karen, Peaches, Jeff M, Christopher Lake: I’m so encouraged to hear ‘good’ being done within the communities. ‘Out there’ is where the needs are…and ‘out there’ reaches right up to our yards. A young woman crossed my path who needed a ride to a Rehabilitation program..twice weekly, for twenty-eight weeks. She’s had four children taken from her. She’s in her twenties and never been married. I tell her who she is in God and what she can become…if you uses her intellectual power constructively rather than destructively. This week she’s beginning classes to get a GED. She’s gonna make it! God loves her so very much and so do I. God bless.

]]> By: Christopher Lake http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/riffs-011809-are-southern-baptists-getting-it-maybe/comment-page-1#comment-364804 Christopher Lake Tue, 20 Jan 2009 00:21:35 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=2737#comment-364804 The main preaching pastor at my former (SBC) church, Capitol Hill Baptist, wrote on a blog that this past year, he had seen more conversions at CHBC than at any previous time in his fourteen-year ministry there. Why did this happen? Was it because of a *focus* on getting a certain number of "decisions for Jesus"? As a former member of the church, I can safely say, No. Conversions happen there because Mark Dever preaches the Gospel and trusts God to convert people. It's that simple. Preach the Gospel clearly and carefully in every sermon. If you are an SBC pastor (or elder), don't make "culture wars," sheer numbers of baptisms, or any other SBC particularities the measure of your church. Preach the Gospel. Encourage joyfully Gospel-centered conversation among the members of the church. God may or may not grow your church as He has Capitol Hill Baptist, but your church will be built on the Gospel and centered on the Gospel, and that is ultimately what matters. The main preaching pastor at my former (SBC) church, Capitol Hill Baptist, wrote on a blog that this past year, he had seen more conversions at CHBC than at any previous time in his fourteen-year ministry there. Why did this happen? Was it because of a *focus* on getting a certain number of “decisions for Jesus”? As a former member of the church, I can safely say, No.

Conversions happen there because Mark Dever preaches the Gospel and trusts God to convert people. It’s that simple. Preach the Gospel clearly and carefully in every sermon. If you are an SBC pastor (or elder), don’t make “culture wars,” sheer numbers of baptisms, or any other SBC particularities the measure of your church. Preach the Gospel. Encourage joyfully Gospel-centered conversation among the members of the church. God may or may not grow your church as He has Capitol Hill Baptist, but your church will be built on the Gospel and centered on the Gospel, and that is ultimately what matters.

]]> By: Jeff M http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/riffs-011809-are-southern-baptists-getting-it-maybe/comment-page-1#comment-364738 Jeff M Mon, 19 Jan 2009 21:29:03 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=2737#comment-364738 Some churches do go out and do things. I can't speak for all of them, but yesterday we went to one of the local nursing homes and did a 30 minute service with the residents. It was mostly singing and fellowship with them afterward. We do this in two nursing homes as often as scheduling will permit. And just this morning my sister called me to share a funny story. It seems that their church(which is a big megachurch in NW Arkansas) was asked to help with efforts to give food to the community today. They were listed as a rallying/ volunteering site on MoveOn.org's website and had lots of volunteers from the church and MoveOn.org working side by side to give away food. Coincidentally, both of these churches are SBC affiliated, so maybe we are getting it like iMonk mentioned at the outset. Some churches do go out and do things. I can’t speak for all of them, but yesterday we went to one of the local nursing homes and did a 30 minute service with the residents. It was mostly singing and fellowship with them afterward. We do this in two nursing homes as often as scheduling will permit.
And just this morning my sister called me to share a funny story. It seems that their church(which is a big megachurch in NW Arkansas) was asked to help with efforts to give food to the community today. They were listed as a rallying/ volunteering site on MoveOn.org’s website and had lots of volunteers from the church and MoveOn.org working side by side to give away food. Coincidentally, both of these churches are SBC affiliated, so maybe we are getting it like iMonk mentioned at the outset.

]]> By: Peaches http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/riffs-011809-are-southern-baptists-getting-it-maybe/comment-page-1#comment-364717 Peaches Mon, 19 Jan 2009 20:38:17 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=2737#comment-364717 What we have left is a Christianity of tips and techniques: three steps for a good quiet time; four habits for effective marriage communication. It does not take your breath away, and if Christianity does not take your breath away, something else will. … When you live in a Christianity of tips and techniques, you trivialize sin. Sin is something external. It's running stop signs. It's drinking too much. It's smoking. But God calls sin adultery of the heart. It is what you give your heart away to other than the heart of God. --John Eldredge Until Christ takes our breath away the church will be in retreat. What we have left is a Christianity of tips and techniques: three steps for a good quiet time; four habits for effective marriage communication. It does not take your breath away, and if Christianity does not take your breath away, something else will. … When you live in a Christianity of tips and techniques, you trivialize sin. Sin is something external. It’s running stop signs. It’s drinking too much. It’s smoking. But God calls sin adultery of the heart. It is what you give your heart away to other than the heart of God.
–John Eldredge

Until Christ takes our breath away the church will be in retreat.

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