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	<title>Comments on: Review: 10 Things I Hate About Christianity by Jason Berggren (and Some Thoughts On Post-Evangelical Voices in Christian Publishing)</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/review-10-things-i-hate-about-christianity-by-jason-berggren-and-some-thoughts-on-post-evangelical-voices-in-christian-publishing/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/review-10-things-i-hate-about-christianity-by-jason-berggren-and-some-thoughts-on-post-evangelical-voices-in-christian-publishing</link>
	<description>...dispatches from the post-evangelical wilderness</description>
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		<title>By: Jan</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/review-10-things-i-hate-about-christianity-by-jason-berggren-and-some-thoughts-on-post-evangelical-voices-in-christian-publishing/comment-page-1#comment-437961</link>
		<dc:creator>Jan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Apr 2009 02:29:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=2874#comment-437961</guid>
		<description>Thank you.  I detest acronyms.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you.  I detest acronyms.</p>
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		<title>By: iMonk</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/review-10-things-i-hate-about-christianity-by-jason-berggren-and-some-thoughts-on-post-evangelical-voices-in-christian-publishing/comment-page-1#comment-436313</link>
		<dc:creator>iMonk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Apr 2009 23:37:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=2874#comment-436313</guid>
		<description>Contemporary Christian Music.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Contemporary Christian Music.</p>
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		<title>By: Jan</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/review-10-things-i-hate-about-christianity-by-jason-berggren-and-some-thoughts-on-post-evangelical-voices-in-christian-publishing/comment-page-1#comment-436309</link>
		<dc:creator>Jan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Apr 2009 23:35:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=2874#comment-436309</guid>
		<description>Anybody care to explain to the uninitiated what a CCM group IS and why it would disillusion anyone?

&quot;Several things interest me about this book. One is Berggrenâ€™s own background as part of an early CCM group. This is an experience that appears everywhere in the book, and itâ€™s no surprise to me that someone coming through that experience finds they have a lot of things to â€œhateâ€ in their religious experience. CCM would be enough to disillusion John Piper.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anybody care to explain to the uninitiated what a CCM group IS and why it would disillusion anyone?</p>
<p>&#8220;Several things interest me about this book. One is Berggrenâ€™s own background as part of an early CCM group. This is an experience that appears everywhere in the book, and itâ€™s no surprise to me that someone coming through that experience finds they have a lot of things to â€œhateâ€ in their religious experience. CCM would be enough to disillusion John Piper.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Marvin Destin</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/review-10-things-i-hate-about-christianity-by-jason-berggren-and-some-thoughts-on-post-evangelical-voices-in-christian-publishing/comment-page-1#comment-390488</link>
		<dc:creator>Marvin Destin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Mar 2009 18:04:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=2874#comment-390488</guid>
		<description>I live in the belly of the hedonistic liberal beast. San Francisco, California. The hostility here for Christianity and Catholicism is substantial, tangible and intense. And as the bomb scare at my church recently demonstrated, real and worse, growing exponentially. The local newspaper printed the names and addresses of people, who donated to prop 8.

I find much of your post very true and accurate. At the same time I find it somewhat understated and self centered. 

Recently I engaged in a political discussion list in debate on Prop 8. I was startled to discover that rational arguments, many of which included very old traditional concepts found in the Baltimore Catechism literally labeled as &quot;evil&quot;. Veiled threats accompanied the labeling.

At first I was basically incredulous because the concepts I was putting forth in the discussion were so old and had been in the public square for at least the last 50 years. I was shocked to realize that something really important has changed in the culture. And its very biblical. Sin is good. If one can even bring the term itself up. And that is what has really happened. You cant. You can not assert that such a thing a sin exists.

The Marxist paradigm has emerged which includes what is called &quot;jamming&quot; ie the total suppression of any speech or ideas that the left doesnt like. This is taking many forms.

As such while I couldnt agree more with your suggestion that Christians are threatened and need to reconnect with the conceptual underpinnings and &quot;technical&quot; infrastructure of Christianity itself in the interest of defending our Faith and the practice of it, there is more we must do.

The enemies of our Faith have done what? They have exploited legal channels to go after those who practice Faith on several bases and they do this on a micro level so as to bwring legal and financial powere to bear against individual people at a million diferent places in our country if not the world. 1st Amendment powers to enable their basis. The Establishment clause to mutate its interpretation to exclude the meaning of the &quot;free expression&quot; of faith while they mutated the part that prevents the Government from &quot;establishing&quot; a religion. 

Christians somehow expect their Church to fight FOR them. But our enemies have already cut off this path by on the one hand claiming that the issue is a political issue and therefore Churches have no standing. Very cunning. Pro-Atheist judges have upheld this tactic.

In short we need to do what our enemies have done. We need a well funded and very aggressive SECULAR legal entity like the ACLU that has the money the ACLU has to fight all the micro battles like the ACLU has. 

When some atheist sues to take down a cross on a far away hill thats &quot;offending&quot; them,that has been there for decades, we need to sue that individual personally because they are offending our rights. That is the dynamic. Individuals cant withstand legal battles. The offended atheist has the ACLU. The student prevented from saying Jesus Christ at their valedictory speech has no one. That is the dynamic of this cultural war. We need to take legal action on a far greater scale than we have been. 

If the concept of someone being offended is grounds for a lawsuit then we have to take the things that violate OUR rights to free expression and have the wherewithall to sue them back.

The ONLY reason we are where we are is not failure of people to know enough scripture. We are up against far nore than our inability to discuss the technical nature of our Faith and respective congregational dogma.We are not up against a battle for faith legitimacy. We are up against a remorseless foe who will constantly change the grounds of their argument to make it very difficult to react to any specific avenue they take.

You are forgetting we are not up against other people. Liberalism is the instrument of Satan.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I live in the belly of the hedonistic liberal beast. San Francisco, California. The hostility here for Christianity and Catholicism is substantial, tangible and intense. And as the bomb scare at my church recently demonstrated, real and worse, growing exponentially. The local newspaper printed the names and addresses of people, who donated to prop 8.</p>
<p>I find much of your post very true and accurate. At the same time I find it somewhat understated and self centered. </p>
<p>Recently I engaged in a political discussion list in debate on Prop 8. I was startled to discover that rational arguments, many of which included very old traditional concepts found in the Baltimore Catechism literally labeled as &#8220;evil&#8221;. Veiled threats accompanied the labeling.</p>
<p>At first I was basically incredulous because the concepts I was putting forth in the discussion were so old and had been in the public square for at least the last 50 years. I was shocked to realize that something really important has changed in the culture. And its very biblical. Sin is good. If one can even bring the term itself up. And that is what has really happened. You cant. You can not assert that such a thing a sin exists.</p>
<p>The Marxist paradigm has emerged which includes what is called &#8220;jamming&#8221; ie the total suppression of any speech or ideas that the left doesnt like. This is taking many forms.</p>
<p>As such while I couldnt agree more with your suggestion that Christians are threatened and need to reconnect with the conceptual underpinnings and &#8220;technical&#8221; infrastructure of Christianity itself in the interest of defending our Faith and the practice of it, there is more we must do.</p>
<p>The enemies of our Faith have done what? They have exploited legal channels to go after those who practice Faith on several bases and they do this on a micro level so as to bwring legal and financial powere to bear against individual people at a million diferent places in our country if not the world. 1st Amendment powers to enable their basis. The Establishment clause to mutate its interpretation to exclude the meaning of the &#8220;free expression&#8221; of faith while they mutated the part that prevents the Government from &#8220;establishing&#8221; a religion. </p>
<p>Christians somehow expect their Church to fight FOR them. But our enemies have already cut off this path by on the one hand claiming that the issue is a political issue and therefore Churches have no standing. Very cunning. Pro-Atheist judges have upheld this tactic.</p>
<p>In short we need to do what our enemies have done. We need a well funded and very aggressive SECULAR legal entity like the ACLU that has the money the ACLU has to fight all the micro battles like the ACLU has. </p>
<p>When some atheist sues to take down a cross on a far away hill thats &#8220;offending&#8221; them,that has been there for decades, we need to sue that individual personally because they are offending our rights. That is the dynamic. Individuals cant withstand legal battles. The offended atheist has the ACLU. The student prevented from saying Jesus Christ at their valedictory speech has no one. That is the dynamic of this cultural war. We need to take legal action on a far greater scale than we have been. </p>
<p>If the concept of someone being offended is grounds for a lawsuit then we have to take the things that violate OUR rights to free expression and have the wherewithall to sue them back.</p>
<p>The ONLY reason we are where we are is not failure of people to know enough scripture. We are up against far nore than our inability to discuss the technical nature of our Faith and respective congregational dogma.We are not up against a battle for faith legitimacy. We are up against a remorseless foe who will constantly change the grounds of their argument to make it very difficult to react to any specific avenue they take.</p>
<p>You are forgetting we are not up against other people. Liberalism is the instrument of Satan.</p>
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		<title>By: F. Leon</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/review-10-things-i-hate-about-christianity-by-jason-berggren-and-some-thoughts-on-post-evangelical-voices-in-christian-publishing/comment-page-1#comment-390468</link>
		<dc:creator>F. Leon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Mar 2009 17:48:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=2874#comment-390468</guid>
		<description>After having read the article on the web &quot;More Americans say they have no religion,&quot; which is about more Americans not being members of organized religious groups, it is my opinion that, no matter how many books are written on the subject, religion is a dying enterprise.  I stress the word enterprise because, let us face it, religion is a business.

And, having experienced first-hand the horrible effects of our present economic predicament (I believe it is a depression and not a recession as many lead us to believe), I feel that religious organizations should start paying their fair share of income taxes.  I believe that the current system is outdated and, frankly, unfair. Please entertain and promote this idea.  If you do, you will be contributing to a better and more fair America where everybody pays their dues.

Who knows?  Maybe you can write a book on this very subject as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>After having read the article on the web &#8220;More Americans say they have no religion,&#8221; which is about more Americans not being members of organized religious groups, it is my opinion that, no matter how many books are written on the subject, religion is a dying enterprise.  I stress the word enterprise because, let us face it, religion is a business.</p>
<p>And, having experienced first-hand the horrible effects of our present economic predicament (I believe it is a depression and not a recession as many lead us to believe), I feel that religious organizations should start paying their fair share of income taxes.  I believe that the current system is outdated and, frankly, unfair. Please entertain and promote this idea.  If you do, you will be contributing to a better and more fair America where everybody pays their dues.</p>
<p>Who knows?  Maybe you can write a book on this very subject as well.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/review-10-things-i-hate-about-christianity-by-jason-berggren-and-some-thoughts-on-post-evangelical-voices-in-christian-publishing/comment-page-1#comment-388135</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Mar 2009 22:04:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=2874#comment-388135</guid>
		<description>Mikee,
For what it is worth.  I totally agree with your criticism of Blue Like Jazz, regarding it&#039;s scattered unorganized approach, that being said, I believe one of the reasons that it works is because it is uniquely authentic.  You are a very smart guy and I don&#039;t need to say this to you, so lets put it in the form of encouragement.  One of the things that comes across in your writing is your authenticity, it is a breath of fresh air.  I believe you do have things to say that matter to people.  I am not a prophet, nor do I play one on TV, but I really do think you will find a way to express yourself in book form if you can find a way to reduce the amount of work you do.  Face it, you are a very busy guy, but if you arrive at the place in your life where you could have time devoted to writing, I think great things could take place.
But what do I know.
Mike</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mikee,<br />
For what it is worth.  I totally agree with your criticism of Blue Like Jazz, regarding it&#8217;s scattered unorganized approach, that being said, I believe one of the reasons that it works is because it is uniquely authentic.  You are a very smart guy and I don&#8217;t need to say this to you, so lets put it in the form of encouragement.  One of the things that comes across in your writing is your authenticity, it is a breath of fresh air.  I believe you do have things to say that matter to people.  I am not a prophet, nor do I play one on TV, but I really do think you will find a way to express yourself in book form if you can find a way to reduce the amount of work you do.  Face it, you are a very busy guy, but if you arrive at the place in your life where you could have time devoted to writing, I think great things could take place.<br />
But what do I know.<br />
Mike</p>
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		<title>By: jason t. berggren</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/review-10-things-i-hate-about-christianity-by-jason-berggren-and-some-thoughts-on-post-evangelical-voices-in-christian-publishing/comment-page-1#comment-388120</link>
		<dc:creator>jason t. berggren</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Mar 2009 21:03:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=2874#comment-388120</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the review and dialogue. Good writing. 

You should write a book!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the review and dialogue. Good writing. </p>
<p>You should write a book!</p>
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		<title>By: TeeDee</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/review-10-things-i-hate-about-christianity-by-jason-berggren-and-some-thoughts-on-post-evangelical-voices-in-christian-publishing/comment-page-1#comment-387780</link>
		<dc:creator>TeeDee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Mar 2009 23:27:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=2874#comment-387780</guid>
		<description>BLD, you aren&#039;t alone.  I haven&#039;t read Blue Like Jazz, either.  Or The Shack.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BLD, you aren&#8217;t alone.  I haven&#8217;t read Blue Like Jazz, either.  Or The Shack.</p>
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		<title>By: Kent Sanders</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/review-10-things-i-hate-about-christianity-by-jason-berggren-and-some-thoughts-on-post-evangelical-voices-in-christian-publishing/comment-page-1#comment-387576</link>
		<dc:creator>Kent Sanders</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Mar 2009 18:28:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=2874#comment-387576</guid>
		<description>iMonk,

This review brings two thoughts to mind:

1. This was a phenomenal essay/review and you have stated your ideas with great clarity. Let me be one more voice to say PLEASE WRITE A BOOK! With the popularity of this website I would assume some publishers would be knocking at your door. If not, they definitely should be.

2. This past Sunday, just for kicks, I attended a Greek Orthodox service here in St. Louis. It is so vastly different from the typical evangelical worship scene that most people would be shell-shocked. (I was too, a bit.) What I really appreciate about the Orthodox tradition is that it hasn&#039;t changed in a long, long time. (Or at least, it hasn&#039;t changed very much.) Evangelical Christianity is constantly searching for the new, the hip, the cutting edge, especially in worship. I sense in these &quot;postmodern&quot; authors a real fatigue with a Christianity that is always swaying with the culture. It&#039;s neat going into an Orthodox service and experiencing the liturgy of John Chrysostom as it has been done for a very long time. It&#039;s refreshing to have a tradition that is rock solid and unchanging. This is both a strength and a weakness, I suppose, but there is an undeniable longing for this kind of depth in evangelicalism these days. You have touched on this theme many times over the years.

Thanks for the great essay.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>iMonk,</p>
<p>This review brings two thoughts to mind:</p>
<p>1. This was a phenomenal essay/review and you have stated your ideas with great clarity. Let me be one more voice to say PLEASE WRITE A BOOK! With the popularity of this website I would assume some publishers would be knocking at your door. If not, they definitely should be.</p>
<p>2. This past Sunday, just for kicks, I attended a Greek Orthodox service here in St. Louis. It is so vastly different from the typical evangelical worship scene that most people would be shell-shocked. (I was too, a bit.) What I really appreciate about the Orthodox tradition is that it hasn&#8217;t changed in a long, long time. (Or at least, it hasn&#8217;t changed very much.) Evangelical Christianity is constantly searching for the new, the hip, the cutting edge, especially in worship. I sense in these &#8220;postmodern&#8221; authors a real fatigue with a Christianity that is always swaying with the culture. It&#8217;s neat going into an Orthodox service and experiencing the liturgy of John Chrysostom as it has been done for a very long time. It&#8217;s refreshing to have a tradition that is rock solid and unchanging. This is both a strength and a weakness, I suppose, but there is an undeniable longing for this kind of depth in evangelicalism these days. You have touched on this theme many times over the years.</p>
<p>Thanks for the great essay.</p>
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		<title>By: Surfnetter</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/review-10-things-i-hate-about-christianity-by-jason-berggren-and-some-thoughts-on-post-evangelical-voices-in-christian-publishing/comment-page-1#comment-387567</link>
		<dc:creator>Surfnetter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Mar 2009 18:18:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=2874#comment-387567</guid>
		<description>Anyone want to know what Jesus has to say about all this ...? Matthew 11:28</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anyone want to know what Jesus has to say about all this &#8230;? Matthew 11:28</p>
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