I am an Evangelical who does not hate the Roman Catholic Church. When I made the Easter/Ishtar/Ashtoreth connection, the Roman Catholic Church was the furthest thing from my mind. Actually I am a Jewish-Metho-Bapti-Costal with definite Lutheran/Anglican leanings and a great respect for Eastern Orthodoxy, but hey, I don’t like labels.

But I do rather like what Flannery O’Connor (RCC) said to Katherine Anne Porter (RCC) or Mary McCarthy (RCC) or whoever it was regarding the Eucharist: “Well, if it’s only a symbol, I say to Hell with it.”

I believe the same was practiced in certain of the ancient mysteries of Greco-Roman times.

However, the respect that RC’s display for the eucharist, as well as the communion service, is one that I think a lot of people could learn from.

Back to the Baptist belief of eucharist, for me the biggest issue is that it becomes nothing more than a symbol. Yes, I realize that the bread is bread, and the wine or juice is just that. However, during a communion service in most denominations, the bread and wine are blessed. We as God, through the Holy Spirit, to make the bread more than bread. To make it a method of transporting the Holy Spirit to us.

But it seems to me that most Baptist churches I have attended see the act merely as reenactment of Jesus’s acts (and weak reenactments at many), not as an actual blessing of those present, much less a blessing of the species (bread and wine).

I will try to maintain my respect of the eucharist. And I will try to respect other’s beliefs and practices as well.

Also Ky is home of SE Christian, Southland Christian, Owensboro Christian. All megas.

I’m fairly new to the site and a little surprised we’re on your “doctrinal radar”. Guess I shouldn’t be. You seem to always have a good handle on all the views on things. (note: not sucking up).

I have heard that Ishtar comment by Evangelicals who hate the Roman Catholic Church. “See they are really pagans”. I don’t think it is true because Easter is an English word and not used in other languages. The ‘Resurrection of our Lord’ is what the Christian Holiday is called.

If you find these explanations valid and end up seeing the first Passover as a type of the Incarnation, crucifixion and resurrection, I think it’s likely you’ll see a strong connection between Passover and the Eucharist/Communion/Lord’s Supper.

IMonk: I haven’t posted in a while as it seems in the last month or so, your threads have dealt with inter-communion issues among Protestants, particularly the SBC convention and the disputes between Reformed-Calvinist, old-school Baptist in the SBC and Pastor Mark Droll, thus I felt inappropriate to comment on what is an issue for Southern Baptist to discuss among themselves. However, after reading your thread on the Eucharist/Lord’s Supper [both appropriate terms in Catholic Doctrine], I thought I would comment and stay with the scriputure understanding of the Eucharist understood through Typology {OT signs, events point to Christ and find there fullfillment in the person of Christ] and not get into later theological statements from St. Thomas Aquinas, St. Bonaventure, etc.
I hope some of your readers will find this helpful to see how the Catholic Church sees the Sacred Scriptures as pointing to the Eucharist as key Liturgical act when the Christian people gather at prayer.

In Genesis 14:18, we read “Melchizedek, king of Salem, brought out bread and wine, and being a priest of God Most High, he blessed Abram.” Later in Genesis, we read where Abraham was told to sacrifice his son Isaac and he tells his son, that God will provide the Lamb. Of course, God command Abraham to not sacrifice Isaac, and Abraham later sacrifices a Ram (c.f. Gen 22:7-14). So, two themes are already developed here, Melchizedek a priest offering Bread and Wine and the image of the Lamb.

As we move to Exodus, we see the Passover ritual described in Exodus 12: 1-20. Some key themes emerge in this text, “the blood of the Lamb is spread on the doors” (c.f. Ex. 12: 7) and the Jewish People “should partake of the Lamb and eat unleavened bread” (c.f. Ex 12: 7-8). Later in the text, we read “This day shall be a memorial feast for you, which all your generation shall celebrate with pilgrimage to the Lord, as a perpetual institution” (c.f. Exodus 12”14) and again, “keep the custom of unleavened bread…celebrate as a perpetual institution” (c.f. Ex 12:17). So some themes emerge hear, that connect back to the passages in Genesis. The blood of the Lamb is put on the door, and the angel of death passes over God’s people. To celebrate and actually participate in this saving action of God, God prescribes a Liturgy/Rite whereby the Jewish People are to celebrate the feast of unleavened bread as a “Perpetual Institution”, i.e. a celebration that transcends time and space. For the record, the Exodus 12 passage is read every Holy Thursday in Catholic Churches ,which is when Christ celebrates the Last supper with the Apostles.

As the Jews cross the read sea in Exodus 14 [a prefigurement of Baptism], we see them on the journey to the promise land and they are without food, and thus we in Exodus 16:13-15, God providing his people with “manna”, i.e., “bread from heaven” as Moses states “This is the bread which the Lord has given you to eat” (c.f. Ex 16: 15). So again, the sign of God giving his people bread to sustain them on the journey to the promise land is coming into play here again. As we get to Exodus 24: 6-8, we see the covenant ratified in blood as we see Moses taking blood and sprinkling it on the altar [a sign of the presence of God among the people] and then taking the same blood and sprinkling it on the people. So, from this text we have a covenant being made in blood and the mingling of the blood on the altar and people now indicates that God and the people are one, i.e. in communion. Again, for the record, this OT passage is read in Catholic Liturgy on the Feast of Corpus Christi [celebrated 6/14/2009].

Two Psalms have strong Eucharistic imagery, as well as sacramental imagery. For example, in Psalm 104:14-15, we read “You raise grass for cattle and plants for our beasts of burden. You bring bread from the earth and wine to gladden our hearts, Oil to make our faces gleam, food to build our strength.” In Psalm 110:4 we see the connection to Melchizedek again as we read “The Lord has sworn and will not waver: like Melchizedek, you are a priest forever.” In addition, the Prophet Malachi (c.f. Mal 1:11) writes “For from the rising of the sun, even to its setting, my name is great among the nations; And everywhere they bring sacrifice to my name, a pure offering.”

So again, the signs of bread and wine are in the Psalms and the Psalmist makes a prophetic statement about Christ being like Melchizedek, you are a priest forever and later the prophet Malachi indicates that a sacrifice will be offered everywhere. So in closing with respect to the OT, the themes, signs, persons and events in these passages, which include bread and wine, priest, sacrifice, Lamb, Passover, unleavened bread, and Melchizedek, through typology, point to the person of Christ and find there fulfillment in his person.

So, staring with the New Testament, John the Baptist identifies Christ as the “Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world” (c.f. John 1:29). In St. John’s chapter 6, we see Christ giving the bread of life discourse, where he cites manna that God gave in the OT and now indicates that he is the true bread from heaven. In the Gospels we read that Christ Passion took place in the context of Passover (c.f. Mt 26:17; Mk 14:12; Luke 22: 7; John 19:14) and all them make the point to indicate that it was the “feast of unleavened bread and St. Mark and St. Luke make the point that this was when the Passover lamb was sacrificed. We also read in the three synoptic Gospels that Christ celebrated the Last supper with his Apostles (c.f. Mk 14: 22-26; Mt 26: 26-30; Luke 22: 14-20), using bread and wine, and stated “This is my Body; This is my Blood and do this in memory of him” and Christ stated that the bread and cup were the new covenant of his blood (c.f. Luke 22:20). St. Paul, in 1 Corinthians 11: 23-29, which interestingly, is written before any of the Gospel accounts gives a strong narrative on the Tradition of the Eucharist as he writes that Christians are to celebrate the Eucharist and indicates that it is a covenant in Christ blood and each time you celebrate the Eucharist, you proclaim the death of the Lord. St. Paul also clearly states that partaking of the Eucharist must be done worthily and a person should examine himself/herself before receiving the Eucharist (c.f. 1 Cor 11:27-28).

In St. Luke’s Gospel, we see the post resurrection account of the road to Emmaus (c.f. Luke 24: 13-35) Christ appearing to two of his Apostles (who are not named) and they do not recognize him until Christ celebrates the “Eucharist” as we read “And it happened that while he was with them at table, he took bread, said the blessing, broke it, and gave it to them. With that their eyes were opened and they recognized him…….and the two recounted how he was made known to them in the breaking of the bread (c.f. Luke 24:30-35). St. Luke, in Acts of the Apostles, gives us an account of Church life as he writes “They devoted themselves to the teaching of the apostles and to the communal life, to the breaking of the bread and to the prayers.” (c.f. Acts 2:42). We see the importance of gathering to break bread again in Acts 20:7 where we read “On the first day of the week, when we gathered to break bread” and Paul again breaks bread before he leaves (c.f. Acts 20:11).

So, taken collectively, the Catholic Church sees the Eucharist as the ritual, sacramental action of thanksgiving to God which constitutes the principal Christian liturgical celebration of communion in the paschal mystery of Christ and the celebration of the Eucharist is at the heart of the Church’s life (Catechism paragraph 2177). The Eucharist then fulfills all of the Old Testament signs and events in the person and actions of Christ, and thus it is the celebration commanded by Christ to make present the sacrifice of Christ throughout the ages until Christ comes again. Christ entrusted this memorial of his body and blood to his spouse, the Church and thus it is an action of both Christ and His Church and it again, re-presents [makes present] the sacrifice of the cross and an because it is a memorial, it applies its fruits. The sacrifice of Christ and the Eucharist are one in the same and as Christ once offered himself in a bloody manner on the Cross, the Eucharist as a sacrifice and an offering of bread and wine is the same offering in an unbloody manner.

Pax et bonum