Comments on: A Moment of Refreshment and Exaltation: Jesus is Our Mediator

By: Richard

Richard — Wed, 09 Apr 2008 07:18:45 +0000

To echo comments above…theosis is an important concept (2 Peter 1:4). It should not be overlooked by us Protestants. I think we too quickly see something in Catholicism or Eastern Orthodoxy and run with our tails between our legs before we examine it. Or we simply toss it out as an “addition” created by traditions of men. It’s quite a biblical idea, and though Mormons have destroyed it in the eyes of most protestants with their diversion from Scripture on the subject, it remains a valid theological point that needs to be considered. HOW DO WE PARTICIPATE IN THE DIVINE NATURE? Protestants usually skip right on to verse 5 and ignore that burning question. It’s time we protestants allow ourselves to not be constrained by our OWN traditions, and let Scripture speak. This relates to mediation in that we can and DO participate with Christ’s mediation (but ONLY by His grace). We pray for one another (intercession). We partner with God (the term co-worker). We share in the very sacrifice of Christ in Communion (see 1 Corinthians). We share on earth what is being offered continually in Heaven. So yes, we “share” in many things. That doesn’t mean that the glory goes to us, or that the ability to share those things ultimately comes from us. What it does mean is that God decided to share His divine life with us, and decreed that we would participate in His divine plan of redemption and salvation history.

By: Carson Weber

Carson Weber — Fri, 15 Jun 2007 03:38:21 +0000

I also recomment John Paul II’s Salvifici Dolores: On the Christian Meaning of Human Suffering, where JPII begins – as from a springboard – with Colossians 1:24 and gives a very comprehensive answer by taking a step back and looking at the whole of divine revelation in this matter. It is one of my favorite apostolic letters.

By: Michael Spencer

Michael Spencer — Thu, 14 Jun 2007 23:17:37 +0000

I don't do extended quotations, nor do I take issue with others reading the Bible with honest convictions. I will say that I believe Dr. John Piper correctly interprets Colossians 1:24 in this message, and I would encourage anyone interested in the connection between missions, suffering and evangelism to read this outstanding message.

By: Carson Weber

Carson Weber — Thu, 14 Jun 2007 22:52:44 +0000

Raja,

Yes, “God decides to answer according to His purposes,” but it would seem that our union with Christ has some real effect upon our prayer that apart from Christ would be non-existent. I’m thinking of James 5:16 – “The prayer of a righteous man has great power in its effects.”

But our role seems to be making known what He’s done, asking for Him to extend what He’s done to others, asking others to avail themselves of what He’s done, displaying the goodness of what He’s done in the Church, etc. – so our “helping” is more like a PR job than anything else.

I believe Paul saw himself as more than a public relations advocate. I say this because of Colossians 1:24 where we’re presented with the difficult passage: “I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I complete what is lacking in Christ’s afflictions for the sake of his body, that is, the church.”

Paul implies that there is some deficiency in Christ’s suffering: namely, the suffering of Christ’s Mystical Body.

I intend to affirm that Christ’s redemption empowers Paul’s suffering with redemptive power, that can be offered to God as a real sacrifice. Paul can exercise his baptismal office of hierus because of his incorporation into Christ.

When I say co-redeem, I do not mean “full partnership.” ‘Co’ can mean either ‘equal to’ or ‘with.’ I intend the latter, which is the meaning you affirm: “Our contribution is cooperation.”

In a very real way, we cooperate in a metaphysical – not merely a forensic – way.

None of that makes the church the mediator between God and men, together with Jesus. It makes the Church emissaries of Jesus, directing others to Him as their one (and only) mediator between God and men.

Yet, when we pray, we mediate in a very real way because we are the Body of Christ. I think there is something to be said for our metaphysical incorporation into Christ due to the power of the Spirit through grace.

I think that at the end of the day, the question is whether or not we are made hierus. Can we offer sacrifice, and is our sacrifice efficacious? And if so, why?

I believe the answer is Yes, Yes, Yes, and because we have been made Christ-ians by the anointing of the Spirit, incorporated into Christ. We have a true, efficacious office of priest, prophet, and king – because of our redemption in Christ Jesus.

By: TheBlueRaja

TheBlueRaja — Wed, 13 Jun 2007 22:49:11 +0000

Oops – I meant to say, “We ask Him to bring the kingdom, and others to enter it, but we can’t bring it ourselves or CAUSE anyone else to enter.”

By: Michael Spencer

Michael Spencer — Wed, 13 Jun 2007 16:36:37 +0000

Kyle:

I won’t speak for any group, but I will point out that on this thread we have a poster who took issue that there is one (and only one) mediator between God and man. I don’t really particularly care what a “group” says. WHat gets me is the individual Christians who reject this simple, Biblical affirmation in some way.

By: Kyle Potter

Kyle Potter — Wed, 13 Jun 2007 16:30:01 +0000

Maybe I need to unplug my “anti-Catholicism” radar and let it cool down a bit. :0)

By: TheBlueRaja

TheBlueRaja — Wed, 13 Jun 2007 16:19:24 +0000

I should have also said that I do think we largely agree about our role in what you’ve called the “subjective application” of God’s salvation. I hear what you’re saying there. How will they call upon Him if they haven’t heard? How will they hear without a preacher? How will they preach if they have not been sent? (Ro. 10:14)

I just don’t see how what you’re saying actually speaks to what Michael posted here. None of that makes the church the mediator between God and men, together with Jesus. It makes the Church emissaries of Jesus, directing others to Him as their one (and only) mediator between God and men.

By: TheBlueRaja

TheBlueRaja — Wed, 13 Jun 2007 16:09:57 +0000

I don’t know, Carson. I think the way that you’re describing effectual prayer seems wrongheaded. You’re making an ontological dependency between answered prayer and our union with Christ. If our prayers are not answered affirmatively, what does this imply? That we’ve lost touch with Christ? That something has managed to separate us? God decides to answer according to His purposes. Prayer is the request of a subordinate to One in authority, not the combination for a heavenly lock.

Our participation certainly is a co-working with God, there’s no doubt about that. But our role seems to be making known what He’s done, asking for Him to extend what He’s done to others, asking others to avail themselves of what He’s done, displaying the goodness of what He’s done in the Church, etc. – so our “helping” is more like a PR job than anything else. In what way could it be said that we are “co-redeeming” anyone? We ask Him to bring the kingdom, and others to enter it, but we can’t bring it ourselves or ask anyone else to enter. Our contribution is cooperation, not a full partnership. I think there’s a difference. My young children’s partnership in my family isn’t to lead my family with their parents, it’s to cooperate with what their parents are doing. I don’t want to denigrate our involvement in God’s work, but I also don’t want to characterize humanity as the silent partner in the business of salvation. Does that make sense?

All of that to say that calling us “co-redeemers” seems an overstatement.

By: Fred

Fred — Wed, 13 Jun 2007 15:54:24 +0000

TheBlueRaja,
Jesus told his disciples: “those who hear you, hear me” (Luke 10:16). It seems to me that such a secondary mediation only makes sense if Christ is also the one mediator between me and my neighbor.