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	<title>Comments on: Recommendation: Judas and the Gospel of Jesus by N.T. Wright</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/recommendation-judas-and-the-gospel-of-jesus-by-nt-wright/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/recommendation-judas-and-the-gospel-of-jesus-by-nt-wright</link>
	<description>...dispatches from the post-evangelical wilderness</description>
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		<title>By: stevenmancar</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/recommendation-judas-and-the-gospel-of-jesus-by-nt-wright/comment-page-1#comment-266636</link>
		<dc:creator>stevenmancar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Aug 2008 15:18:20 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>keyboard this look stone all ocean site ugly see</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>keyboard this look stone all ocean site ugly see</p>
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		<title>By: Gleanings</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/recommendation-judas-and-the-gospel-of-jesus-by-nt-wright/comment-page-1#comment-8183</link>
		<dc:creator>Gleanings</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Oct 2006 15:51:22 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Recommendation: Judas and the Gospel of Jesus by NT Wright...&lt;/strong&gt;

internetmonk.com
...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Recommendation: Judas and the Gospel of Jesus by NT Wright&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>internetmonk.com<br />
&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Wonders For Oyarsa</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/recommendation-judas-and-the-gospel-of-jesus-by-nt-wright/comment-page-1#comment-8166</link>
		<dc:creator>Wonders For Oyarsa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Oct 2006 17:48:13 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Matt -

See if you can test your argumentative empathy skills, and imagine what the response would be to your statement, &quot;the gender role thing starts as a consequence of the fall&quot;.  Or how a Christian who disagreed with you might charactarize a view that a calling as a &quot;fragile follower&quot; is a negative thing. 

;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matt -</p>
<p>See if you can test your argumentative empathy skills, and imagine what the response would be to your statement, &#8220;the gender role thing starts as a consequence of the fall&#8221;.  Or how a Christian who disagreed with you might charactarize a view that a calling as a &#8220;fragile follower&#8221; is a negative thing. </p>
<p> <img src='http://www.internetmonk.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: matty j</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/recommendation-judas-and-the-gospel-of-jesus-by-nt-wright/comment-page-1#comment-8149</link>
		<dc:creator>matty j</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Oct 2006 20:00:46 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>WFO,

Okay, I can see the argument for that. However, I would read the narrative thrust differently. I believe that the Genisis account presents us with two sexually different but fully equal beings who participate equally in the divine mandate. The gender role thing starts as a consequence of the fall. And it&#039;s been &quot;the man&#039;s in charge&quot; and &quot;women are fragile followers&quot; throughout the (sinful) world ever since. So it&#039;s part of God&#039;s work of re-creation (another big Wright theme) to work *counter-culturally* to bring men and women back into equality. I like your phrase, &quot;sexual steamroller of culture,&quot; but I think it&#039;s driving in the opposite direction than you do! Western culture has been, for many centuries, deeply patriarchal in some very damaging ways, and it&#039;s hardly become egalitarian (esp. not in a biblical sense!) over the last four decades. Don&#039;t misread me, I&#039;m not supporting the idea that sexuality is a wash--that&#039;s the world&#039;s version of egalitarian sexuality. But I don&#039;t think God is patriarchal, either. 

Anyway, you answered my question as to the approach of NT Wright fans who are complimentarian, and I appreciate that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>WFO,</p>
<p>Okay, I can see the argument for that. However, I would read the narrative thrust differently. I believe that the Genisis account presents us with two sexually different but fully equal beings who participate equally in the divine mandate. The gender role thing starts as a consequence of the fall. And it&#8217;s been &#8220;the man&#8217;s in charge&#8221; and &#8220;women are fragile followers&#8221; throughout the (sinful) world ever since. So it&#8217;s part of God&#8217;s work of re-creation (another big Wright theme) to work *counter-culturally* to bring men and women back into equality. I like your phrase, &#8220;sexual steamroller of culture,&#8221; but I think it&#8217;s driving in the opposite direction than you do! Western culture has been, for many centuries, deeply patriarchal in some very damaging ways, and it&#8217;s hardly become egalitarian (esp. not in a biblical sense!) over the last four decades. Don&#8217;t misread me, I&#8217;m not supporting the idea that sexuality is a wash&#8211;that&#8217;s the world&#8217;s version of egalitarian sexuality. But I don&#8217;t think God is patriarchal, either. </p>
<p>Anyway, you answered my question as to the approach of NT Wright fans who are complimentarian, and I appreciate that.</p>
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		<title>By: Wonders For Oyarsa</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/recommendation-judas-and-the-gospel-of-jesus-by-nt-wright/comment-page-1#comment-8146</link>
		<dc:creator>Wonders For Oyarsa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Oct 2006 18:35:39 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Matt - 

The simple answer is that these people see embracing our god-given identities as male and female as part of the thrust of the story.  To capitulate to the sexual steamroller of our culture is seen as being unfaithful to the gospel.  You need not assume disagreements stem only from cognitive dissonance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matt &#8211; </p>
<p>The simple answer is that these people see embracing our god-given identities as male and female as part of the thrust of the story.  To capitulate to the sexual steamroller of our culture is seen as being unfaithful to the gospel.  You need not assume disagreements stem only from cognitive dissonance.</p>
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		<title>By: matty j</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/recommendation-judas-and-the-gospel-of-jesus-by-nt-wright/comment-page-1#comment-8131</link>
		<dc:creator>matty j</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Oct 2006 19:56:26 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Just fyi--I think you might mean &quot;While this book doesn’t cover as much ground as even one of his [larger] books&quot;. 

Now here&#039;s something to spice things up a bit: I assume from your post that you are at least in general on board with Wright&#039;s view of scripture. This, in my short form, is that the Bible is the story of God&#039;s interaction with the world as told by His people and inspired by the Holy Spirit. Emphasis for Wright is on the narrative of Scripture, and the impact of genre and historical setting on interpretation. The role of the church is to carry on this narrative, empowered by the same Spirit, in congruence with the narrative we have before us (the first 4 acts in ntpg), yet not merely recapitulating it. 

On the basis of this view of scripture, it only makes sense that things like slavery which are taken for granted in OT legislation need not be taken for granted today in a world that has a more robust understanding of the equality of all peoples. In the same way, the role of women in the church need not simply recapitulate the oppressive patriarchy taken for granted in the Bible (there was no alternative for these Spirit inspired authors to consider). Rather, in a world with a more gospel-ized understanding of the full humanity of women, the church is now able to affirm the Spirit&#039;s gifting of women and men for all kinds of ministry. 

The above, it seems to me, is a very likely conclusion for most people who who are NT Wright fans. So my question is this: How do people who like NT Wright, yet do not support women in pastoral ministry, deal with (what I see as) the inevitable cognitive dissonance?

Any thoughts? 

Matt</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just fyi&#8211;I think you might mean &#8220;While this book doesn’t cover as much ground as even one of his [larger] books&#8221;. </p>
<p>Now here&#8217;s something to spice things up a bit: I assume from your post that you are at least in general on board with Wright&#8217;s view of scripture. This, in my short form, is that the Bible is the story of God&#8217;s interaction with the world as told by His people and inspired by the Holy Spirit. Emphasis for Wright is on the narrative of Scripture, and the impact of genre and historical setting on interpretation. The role of the church is to carry on this narrative, empowered by the same Spirit, in congruence with the narrative we have before us (the first 4 acts in ntpg), yet not merely recapitulating it. </p>
<p>On the basis of this view of scripture, it only makes sense that things like slavery which are taken for granted in OT legislation need not be taken for granted today in a world that has a more robust understanding of the equality of all peoples. In the same way, the role of women in the church need not simply recapitulate the oppressive patriarchy taken for granted in the Bible (there was no alternative for these Spirit inspired authors to consider). Rather, in a world with a more gospel-ized understanding of the full humanity of women, the church is now able to affirm the Spirit&#8217;s gifting of women and men for all kinds of ministry. </p>
<p>The above, it seems to me, is a very likely conclusion for most people who who are NT Wright fans. So my question is this: How do people who like NT Wright, yet do not support women in pastoral ministry, deal with (what I see as) the inevitable cognitive dissonance?</p>
<p>Any thoughts? </p>
<p>Matt</p>
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		<title>By: churchpundit</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/recommendation-judas-and-the-gospel-of-jesus-by-nt-wright/comment-page-1#comment-8109</link>
		<dc:creator>churchpundit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Oct 2006 22:38:12 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Thanks for the recommendation. I read anything Wright puts out. This one is next. I have friends who are totally into the  whole revisionist thing, swallowing it hook, line and sinker! It is amazing. I read books they loan me like &quot;The Laughing Jesus&quot; or &quot;The Pagan Christ&quot;, and just can&#039;t believe it! I agree with Wrights approach though, that we must hear the valid critique it aims at the church and Christianity, etc., but we must also critically dissect what the gnostics are saying, both ancient and modern, eat the meat and spit out the bones. thus spoke churchpundit!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the recommendation. I read anything Wright puts out. This one is next. I have friends who are totally into the  whole revisionist thing, swallowing it hook, line and sinker! It is amazing. I read books they loan me like &#8220;The Laughing Jesus&#8221; or &#8220;The Pagan Christ&#8221;, and just can&#8217;t believe it! I agree with Wrights approach though, that we must hear the valid critique it aims at the church and Christianity, etc., but we must also critically dissect what the gnostics are saying, both ancient and modern, eat the meat and spit out the bones. thus spoke churchpundit!</p>
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		<title>By: GJohnson0313</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/recommendation-judas-and-the-gospel-of-jesus-by-nt-wright/comment-page-1#comment-8104</link>
		<dc:creator>GJohnson0313</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Oct 2006 14:45:37 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Thanks, bro. I have &quot;Following Jesus&quot; by Wright in my library, and I&#039;ll DEFINITELY get this title as soon as possible. One the young guys at our church just asked me about those Gnostic writings. I appreciate the info!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, bro. I have &#8220;Following Jesus&#8221; by Wright in my library, and I&#8217;ll DEFINITELY get this title as soon as possible. One the young guys at our church just asked me about those Gnostic writings. I appreciate the info!</p>
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		<title>By: Noel Heikkinen</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/recommendation-judas-and-the-gospel-of-jesus-by-nt-wright/comment-page-1#comment-8097</link>
		<dc:creator>Noel Heikkinen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Oct 2006 00:24:36 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>You&#039;ll be proud of me.  I got my first two NT Wright books in the mail today from your recommendation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;ll be proud of me.  I got my first two NT Wright books in the mail today from your recommendation.</p>
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