“….but I’d challenge you to read a book on creation/evolution by a Catholic or an old earth Reformed author.”

That’s an argument I brought up when the old GC list was melting down into continuous Creation-vs-Evolution flamewars. After which, I learned once more that “Any nail that sticks up gets hammered down. HARD.”

But recently along the same lines, I heard somewhere on the Web that the original Hebrew of the Genesis “On the day you eat the fruit, you shall surely die” was more like “On that day… Death Will Touch You”. That “death entering the world” was more along the lines of “consciousness of mortality and Death” entering Adam & Eve. Can anyone out there (including Torah scholars) confirm that as a legitimate/plausible interpretation?

Have you ever read a book by someone who didn’t agree with that premise? I know the AIG/YECers are tenacious about this, but I’d challenge you to read a book on creation/evolution by a Catholic or an old earth Reformed author.

Clearly, there are other ways to approach it. A distinction between death in rel to God and literal biological death is possible.

It’s very hard to say one doesn’t believe in evolution and to say there was no death at the outset. A lot of design is based on it.

But it’s not my field and I don’t want to argue the point. Just want to say there are many you don’t have that logical conundrum.

You are saying God’s goodness depends on a turn of Biblical interpretation. Death entering the world is not a scientific statement in Romans 5, but a statement about redemption history.

The consequence? Back-alley liquor, fortunes made providing it, cities and governments corrupted as they were encouraged to look the other way, and people killed as a result of consuming tainted alcohol. Marijuana prohibition is causing the same problems today.

All of this because the people were not convinced that liquor warranted banning; and the bulk of the people are not currently convinced that marijuana—or abortion—warrants banning. Despite all the pro-lifers out there who want abortion gone, not enough of us want it to be illegal as well.

It is so much easier to pass a law against it than it is to get the word out and convince people, one at a time. But the Christian Right prefers to pass a law.

Anyone recall that this tactic was once used to spread the gospel? And how utterly hypocritical both Christians and the Church became as a result? The only folks who think it would still work obviously don’t know their history. Must’ve been reading the revised “Christian Nation” version of it.

We will NEVER change the law before we do that, and the rabidly anti-life crowd understands that VERY WELL. I also think we lose ground when we try to tie it specifically to a religious viewpoint TO THE GENERAL PUBLIC. Don’t talk about “ensoulment” etc. to the GP because that just muddles the issue of when life begins. (Examples are Reformed and Conservative Judaism) This is an issue that RCs, Orthos, EVs, Orth Jews, etc. have to get together and hold our noses and be willing to work with people of vastly differing lifestyles and religious beliefs (or lack thereof).

Remember that Jesus dined with tax collectors and prostitutes.

If we make abortion illegal, what do you propose as penalities? Who gets blamed, who gets punished?

I would love to see abortion eliminated because there is NO need for it. No one abused, or any of the other many causes that women and men have to make that decision.

But, punishing the victim is just as wrong.

Helping pregnant women is great, but it is clearly #2 to this above.