I was surprised at hearing “NT Wright” and “lefty politics” in the same sentence. Of course I am of a mind that takes “lefty” as a compliment, not in the perjorative manner in which I suspect it is being used here. As one who has recently returned to the Christian Church, and as a new Episcopalian, I have learned a great deal from Wright’s books and lectures, and am always saddened (and, frankly, surprised, given his other views on social justice) when he seems to drive straight off the road when he deals with the theology of gender.

Michael, this is my first post here. I am a long time podcast listener. I’m sure our politics differ, but I really appreciate your witness and it has been helpful to me in my journey back to the Church. I’m a big fan of Merton, and love Liturgy, and your comprehensive opinions are fun to listen to and read. Keep up the good work.

Thanks.

Protestants and Catholics are two sides of the same coin, as far as I’m concerned. I don’t know if that’s a bad or a good thing, but it’s a point that Protestants seem to gloss over.

Although divided into four sections (called ‘weeks’, but nothing to do with chronological time), I can’t really see that they have anything at all to do with what I’ve Googled as ‘The Four Spiritual Laws.’

Yes, the Exercises are part of Jesuit training and the reason for a Spiritual Director is largely as you say (a bit more involved than that, but hard to explain without writing a very long post).

Google “Act of Contrition”; something should come up.

Aside — Steve to Nate: Your “summary of the sinner’s prayer” sounds like a natural setup for something similar to Mark Twain’s “The War Prayer”, where a prophet tells the congregation what their prayer really involves in its fulfillment.

As for the Four Spiritual Laws, check out the organization of The Spiritual Exercises of St Ignatius Loyola; this book of prayers and meditations by the founder of the Jesuits is divided into four sections corresponding to the Four Spiritual Laws. Spiritual Exercises is a series of prayers and meditations, normally done on retreat under supervision, intended to cause growth in Christ. The supervision (by someone who has been through the Exercises themselves) is recommended in case the subject goes off on a tangent (as in meditation upon sin triggering depression and despair). I understand the Exercises are part of Jesuit training.

That’s a pretty good summary of the sinner’s prayer.

I’d still like to see how this is Roman Catholic in origin, like Ken wrote.

Alexis Khomiakov, quoted in Kallistos Ware’s The Orthodox Church, states that “all Protestants are Crypto-Papists…”

I tend to agree that most questions about sin, salvation, faith, works, etc. have been framed by Catholic theology, especially medieval scholasticism.

We Protestants may come to different conclusions than Catholics, but we often tend to be uncritically asking the same questions.

If the reader is a layperson, not scholarly trained, then the Everyone books and Simply Christian.

If the reader is a scholarly, The big books. New Testament and the People of God, Jesus and the Victory of God, Resurrection of the Son of God.

Here’s one version of the sinners prayer:

I, the sinner, do hereby solemly swear that I will be faithful and live the Christian life, doing my best at all times to not be a backslider and to go to church on Sunday with my three foot bible and take furious, copious notes, never letting on that I’m not really making progress climbing the spiritual ladder.

You, God, will then be obligated to save me, performing your end of the contract and giving me such blessings as I have earned (see above).

Date saved ____________

Sign here (sinner) ___________________________

Sign here (God) ___________________________

Could you elaborate on your comments about the Sinner’s Prayer and the Four Spiritual Laws’ Catholic origins? I’m totally interested, but not surprised if you’re right.

Thanks

Because most like their God and Christ dumbed down into “Say the Sinner’s Prayer/Magic(k) Words”. (Incidentally, “The Sinner’s Prayer” is a direct knockoff of the RCC Act of Contrition, and “The Four Spiritual Laws” a four-line sound-bite knockoff of St Ignatius Loyola’s Spiritual Exercises.)

My writing partner is a burned-out pastor in rural PA; he has told me about trying to teach beyond-the-basics in his sermons, only to be told “Stop using those big words, Preacher. We don’t want to learn any big words.”

i.e. “Just keep us comfortable until we get to Fluffy Cloud Heaven, that’s all we’re here for.”