<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Recommendation and Review: Losing God by Matt Rogers</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/recommendation-and-review-losing-god-by-matt-rogers/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/recommendation-and-review-losing-god-by-matt-rogers</link>
	<description>...dispatches from the post-evangelical wilderness</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 13:41:53 -0500</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: Wolnol</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/recommendation-and-review-losing-god-by-matt-rogers/comment-page-2#comment-449593</link>
		<dc:creator>Wolnol</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 May 2009 01:13:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=2750#comment-449593</guid>
		<description>Or maybe depression has less to do with theology and more to do with medical health... ie. chemical imbalance etc. As such it is treatable - without religion.

Our faith is rooted in who God is, not in what he does for those who serve him.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Or maybe depression has less to do with theology and more to do with medical health&#8230; ie. chemical imbalance etc. As such it is treatable &#8211; without religion.</p>
<p>Our faith is rooted in who God is, not in what he does for those who serve him.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: hope g.</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/recommendation-and-review-losing-god-by-matt-rogers/comment-page-2#comment-367537</link>
		<dc:creator>hope g.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jan 2009 06:18:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=2750#comment-367537</guid>
		<description>what an interesting site! isn&#039;t it in all of our prayers to God to show us his truth? 

In the past year, my 18 year old is having a culture reaction/ oppositional defiance expression/ denial of God.  His relationship was shattered with his father when he was 12 and started talking of how horrible his father was - and through much counsel, determined that he was abused - more verbal than sexual, but tickling that became more inappropriate with each year it continued. His young cries for prayer left him vulnerable to ridicule within his youth group. He persevered and became one of the worship team leaders. After 2 mission trips to Seattle to work with Sacred Heart, he came back &quot;vegan&quot; and shortly thereafter, renounced his faith and left our pca church crushed. It has been devasting as a mom to see her once vibrant  son go from wanting to become a youth minister to one who finds so much fault in believing. 

Amazingly, God has sent affirmation after affirmation to encourage me in My faith. Even after reading many of your interesting entries, I want to encourage you all in our hope in God, despite your bad experience in an all or nothing theology. 

God delights in the praises of His people. It is by His grace that we are saved. It is a mystery as to whether it is by His spirit or our response to His calling that we do anything good. But one of the messages that always calls me back to the goodness of God is the illustration of Jonah and Ninevah used in the New Testament, the restoration of Jonah to do God&#039;s work and the grace that God extended to a city that was undeserving.  &quot;For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.&quot; Romans 11:32. I can see why God would allow us to duke it out down here about His grace versus our response - we have to have both  - it is not an either or thing. We need His grace and we have to respond. So both camps are right and both sides shed light on how important it is to remember that it is God who is good and who calls us to himself, as well as how important it is that we respond and evangelize. 

&quot;Oh the depths of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God...&quot;

So I pray that He will draw my son back to Himself and believe in His goodness and mercy to Ninevah. My son&#039;s heart is hurting for all that is wrong in society, the consumerism of America and the difficulties he faced from his own father, and living up to the expectations of my husband, his stepfather. Much more to the story. I have given my grief to God - and He is thankfully restoring my joy after many years of struggling.

So return to thankfulness. Beg for prayer groups in your church that are small and intimate and don&#039;t stop when they dwindle - invite others who are safe and remind people of the importance of loving and praying for those with request - and not to gossip. Be the person that you wished comforted you in your hurt. Trust that the God who made the mountains is big enough to carry you out of your valley. 

Before I go, do pray for continued understanding of two things that are urgently calling for attention in our world... how to treat those born with sexually ambiguous organs in relation to homosexuality. Also, those who are sexually abused, especially father on son abuse. I think these are the types of horrors that leave us exhausted when we take our eyes off of Christ and onto the circustances of the world we live in. 

Is it possible that God not only sanctifies us individually but also as a church?

Also, Jesus Calling by Sarah Young is a wonderfully sweet devotion. Thank you for allowing me to ramble here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>what an interesting site! isn&#8217;t it in all of our prayers to God to show us his truth? </p>
<p>In the past year, my 18 year old is having a culture reaction/ oppositional defiance expression/ denial of God.  His relationship was shattered with his father when he was 12 and started talking of how horrible his father was &#8211; and through much counsel, determined that he was abused &#8211; more verbal than sexual, but tickling that became more inappropriate with each year it continued. His young cries for prayer left him vulnerable to ridicule within his youth group. He persevered and became one of the worship team leaders. After 2 mission trips to Seattle to work with Sacred Heart, he came back &#8220;vegan&#8221; and shortly thereafter, renounced his faith and left our pca church crushed. It has been devasting as a mom to see her once vibrant  son go from wanting to become a youth minister to one who finds so much fault in believing. </p>
<p>Amazingly, God has sent affirmation after affirmation to encourage me in My faith. Even after reading many of your interesting entries, I want to encourage you all in our hope in God, despite your bad experience in an all or nothing theology. </p>
<p>God delights in the praises of His people. It is by His grace that we are saved. It is a mystery as to whether it is by His spirit or our response to His calling that we do anything good. But one of the messages that always calls me back to the goodness of God is the illustration of Jonah and Ninevah used in the New Testament, the restoration of Jonah to do God&#8217;s work and the grace that God extended to a city that was undeserving.  &#8220;For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.&#8221; <a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=Romans+11%3A32" class="bibleref" title="ESV Romans 11:32">Romans 11:32</a>. I can see why God would allow us to duke it out down here about His grace versus our response &#8211; we have to have both  &#8211; it is not an either or thing. We need His grace and we have to respond. So both camps are right and both sides shed light on how important it is to remember that it is God who is good and who calls us to himself, as well as how important it is that we respond and evangelize. </p>
<p>&#8220;Oh the depths of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>So I pray that He will draw my son back to Himself and believe in His goodness and mercy to Ninevah. My son&#8217;s heart is hurting for all that is wrong in society, the consumerism of America and the difficulties he faced from his own father, and living up to the expectations of my husband, his stepfather. Much more to the story. I have given my grief to God &#8211; and He is thankfully restoring my joy after many years of struggling.</p>
<p>So return to thankfulness. Beg for prayer groups in your church that are small and intimate and don&#8217;t stop when they dwindle &#8211; invite others who are safe and remind people of the importance of loving and praying for those with request &#8211; and not to gossip. Be the person that you wished comforted you in your hurt. Trust that the God who made the mountains is big enough to carry you out of your valley. </p>
<p>Before I go, do pray for continued understanding of two things that are urgently calling for attention in our world&#8230; how to treat those born with sexually ambiguous organs in relation to homosexuality. Also, those who are sexually abused, especially father on son abuse. I think these are the types of horrors that leave us exhausted when we take our eyes off of Christ and onto the circustances of the world we live in. </p>
<p>Is it possible that God not only sanctifies us individually but also as a church?</p>
<p>Also, Jesus Calling by Sarah Young is a wonderfully sweet devotion. Thank you for allowing me to ramble here.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Joe M</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/recommendation-and-review-losing-god-by-matt-rogers/comment-page-2#comment-366954</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe M</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Jan 2009 18:57:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=2750#comment-366954</guid>
		<description>I was a bit afraid of writing this.  

What a broken people we Christians are!  I am surprised that more of us are not depressed. We confess a gospel of miracles and healings and yet survive on grace through letters that lead us to a life of the Cross.  We search for a place where our doubts will go away - and that might be a church filled with those perfect Christians whose faith is so strong that they can have miracle crusades.  A church that really believes &quot;Whatever you ask for in My name.&quot;  A church that says it has been been unwavering for centuries. Or a church where the members know what the Lord is actually saying to them.  But when that doesn&#039;t happen to you and you start to ask questions, I can see why you pick up and move on and remain broken.

I am not depressed (probably just cynical), and I do find joy in my Lord and prayer life.  But this life of faith and this search for God is not easy or clear. To some degree, darkness is still a part of the Christian journey.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was a bit afraid of writing this.  </p>
<p>What a broken people we Christians are!  I am surprised that more of us are not depressed. We confess a gospel of miracles and healings and yet survive on grace through letters that lead us to a life of the Cross.  We search for a place where our doubts will go away &#8211; and that might be a church filled with those perfect Christians whose faith is so strong that they can have miracle crusades.  A church that really believes &#8220;Whatever you ask for in My name.&#8221;  A church that says it has been been unwavering for centuries. Or a church where the members know what the Lord is actually saying to them.  But when that doesn&#8217;t happen to you and you start to ask questions, I can see why you pick up and move on and remain broken.</p>
<p>I am not depressed (probably just cynical), and I do find joy in my Lord and prayer life.  But this life of faith and this search for God is not easy or clear. To some degree, darkness is still a part of the Christian journey.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: iMonk</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/recommendation-and-review-losing-god-by-matt-rogers/comment-page-2#comment-366516</link>
		<dc:creator>iMonk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Jan 2009 12:23:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=2750#comment-366516</guid>
		<description>Dan:

I have a whole series on the Christian and mental illness.

http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-christian-and-mental-illness</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dan:</p>
<p>I have a whole series on the Christian and mental illness.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-christian-and-mental-illness" rel="nofollow">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-christian-and-mental-illness</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Patrick Kyle</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/recommendation-and-review-losing-god-by-matt-rogers/comment-page-2#comment-366460</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick Kyle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Jan 2009 08:19:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=2750#comment-366460</guid>
		<description>JohnB5200

A couple observations. 

While Christian churches agree on about 90% of doctrine for the most part, denominationalism springs from what could be called first principles or emphases. The engine running Calvinism is the sovereignty of God; the thing that makes Arminianism tick is the spiritual autonomy of man; Charismatics are driven by the Holy Spirit; the Holiness churches are centered on God&#039;s holiness: the Lutherans on Christ&#039;s work on the cross: the Catholics are the original Church founded by Jesus etc. etc. I found that it was far more profitable in my search to consider these emphases and how each group interprets the Scriptures through them.
Not all of these first principles are of equal value, some really suck, and will bring you to despair. 
I have noticed that groups lacking in grace and big on legalism are more likely to produce despair and burnout regardless of which doctrinal camp they are from.

Call me weak, but I chose the theology that I thought offered the most hope, and at its core what I considered to be the most happy or joyous, and would be conducive to my continued mental health.( Not that it is always exhibited in many of the congregations in my particular denomination.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>JohnB5200</p>
<p>A couple observations. </p>
<p>While Christian churches agree on about 90% of doctrine for the most part, denominationalism springs from what could be called first principles or emphases. The engine running Calvinism is the sovereignty of God; the thing that makes Arminianism tick is the spiritual autonomy of man; Charismatics are driven by the Holy Spirit; the Holiness churches are centered on God&#8217;s holiness: the Lutherans on Christ&#8217;s work on the cross: the Catholics are the original Church founded by Jesus etc. etc. I found that it was far more profitable in my search to consider these emphases and how each group interprets the Scriptures through them.<br />
Not all of these first principles are of equal value, some really suck, and will bring you to despair.<br />
I have noticed that groups lacking in grace and big on legalism are more likely to produce despair and burnout regardless of which doctrinal camp they are from.</p>
<p>Call me weak, but I chose the theology that I thought offered the most hope, and at its core what I considered to be the most happy or joyous, and would be conducive to my continued mental health.( Not that it is always exhibited in many of the congregations in my particular denomination.)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Dan</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/recommendation-and-review-losing-god-by-matt-rogers/comment-page-2#comment-366444</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Jan 2009 06:52:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=2750#comment-366444</guid>
		<description>I anticipated (Hoped) in reading this blog to find some well thought out christian perspective on dealing with mental health issues.  I work with homeless, and domestic violence situations and am often asked for advice.  I don&#039;t give it, but refer it to professionals.  After reading all the responses I am now depressed.  Instead of understanding I see blame.  This thought process, or set of doctrines, or this denomination causes this or that.  Maybe we need to start where Christ told us to end - except as you become like little children -not hung up on some one else&#039;s preference of what to do, or how.  Watching my two boys start out in a fight over what to play, but shortly thereafter figuring out a hybrid of what they both want.  Always makes me say hmmmmm.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I anticipated (Hoped) in reading this blog to find some well thought out christian perspective on dealing with mental health issues.  I work with homeless, and domestic violence situations and am often asked for advice.  I don&#8217;t give it, but refer it to professionals.  After reading all the responses I am now depressed.  Instead of understanding I see blame.  This thought process, or set of doctrines, or this denomination causes this or that.  Maybe we need to start where Christ told us to end &#8211; except as you become like little children -not hung up on some one else&#8217;s preference of what to do, or how.  Watching my two boys start out in a fight over what to play, but shortly thereafter figuring out a hybrid of what they both want.  Always makes me say hmmmmm.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: iMonk</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/recommendation-and-review-losing-god-by-matt-rogers/comment-page-2#comment-366377</link>
		<dc:creator>iMonk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Jan 2009 01:43:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=2750#comment-366377</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s depression talking.

Be anything rather than believe that. I&#039;m not kidding.

God created you as an image of himself in whom he delights. Christ loved you and redeemed you completely. 

All is this is done. Finished. No questions. God&#039;s love is a Romans 8 love. Nothing can stop it.

Believe nothing else.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s depression talking.</p>
<p>Be anything rather than believe that. I&#8217;m not kidding.</p>
<p>God created you as an image of himself in whom he delights. Christ loved you and redeemed you completely. </p>
<p>All is this is done. Finished. No questions. God&#8217;s love is a <a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=Romans+8" class="bibleref" title="ESV Romans 8">Romans 8</a> love. Nothing can stop it.</p>
<p>Believe nothing else.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Joe</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/recommendation-and-review-losing-god-by-matt-rogers/comment-page-2#comment-366375</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Jan 2009 01:33:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=2750#comment-366375</guid>
		<description>Growing up in a very Calvinist environment, I rejected organized religion as soon as I could. I didn&#039;t enter a church for over 30 years, except for a wedding or funeral. 

It was only when I found Methodism -- and I had no idea that all Christians weren&#039;t some type of Baptist -- that I was able to find God. 

Soon after that, the mild depression I&#039;d struggled with all my life turned into full-blown clinical depression, with all the dangers that brings. 

Thank God, I now had a church full of supportive people who helped me. Who called me at night, and sent me encouraging emails. Who talked me into getting into therapy and seeing a doctor.

If all I had available to help me was Calvanistic Christianity, I might well be dead right now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Growing up in a very Calvinist environment, I rejected organized religion as soon as I could. I didn&#8217;t enter a church for over 30 years, except for a wedding or funeral. </p>
<p>It was only when I found Methodism &#8212; and I had no idea that all Christians weren&#8217;t some type of Baptist &#8212; that I was able to find God. </p>
<p>Soon after that, the mild depression I&#8217;d struggled with all my life turned into full-blown clinical depression, with all the dangers that brings. </p>
<p>Thank God, I now had a church full of supportive people who helped me. Who called me at night, and sent me encouraging emails. Who talked me into getting into therapy and seeing a doctor.</p>
<p>If all I had available to help me was Calvanistic Christianity, I might well be dead right now.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jen</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/recommendation-and-review-losing-god-by-matt-rogers/comment-page-2#comment-366370</link>
		<dc:creator>Jen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Jan 2009 01:17:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=2750#comment-366370</guid>
		<description>Hmm, this might be the perfect place to ask this ...

I&#039;ve been struggling with depression/suicidal urges for years, and I&#039;m finally doing better with a combination of meds and cognitive behavioral therapy. 

But I struggle with one overwhelming thought: Everyone else deserves happiness but me. I&#039;ll never be happy. (I&#039;ve &quot;learned&quot; this through a lifetime of heartache, loneliness and painful experiences.)

My therapist tells me this is a myth, but what about the Bible saying that I&#039;m totally depraved and worthy of death without Christ? I am a Christian, and I&#039;m trusting in Christ&#039;s blood alone to save me. 

What makes me think I can expect the same things as every other Christian -- family, home, good job, etc. I truly feel like everybody else can get these but I will never have them.

Is this the depression talking, or is it in some way biblical?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmm, this might be the perfect place to ask this &#8230;</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve been struggling with depression/suicidal urges for years, and I&#8217;m finally doing better with a combination of meds and cognitive behavioral therapy. </p>
<p>But I struggle with one overwhelming thought: Everyone else deserves happiness but me. I&#8217;ll never be happy. (I&#8217;ve &#8220;learned&#8221; this through a lifetime of heartache, loneliness and painful experiences.)</p>
<p>My therapist tells me this is a myth, but what about the Bible saying that I&#8217;m totally depraved and worthy of death without Christ? I am a Christian, and I&#8217;m trusting in Christ&#8217;s blood alone to save me. </p>
<p>What makes me think I can expect the same things as every other Christian &#8212; family, home, good job, etc. I truly feel like everybody else can get these but I will never have them.</p>
<p>Is this the depression talking, or is it in some way biblical?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Brandon F</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/recommendation-and-review-losing-god-by-matt-rogers/comment-page-2#comment-366361</link>
		<dc:creator>Brandon F</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Jan 2009 00:50:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=2750#comment-366361</guid>
		<description>This sounds like it is an gonna be an interesting book to read. Michael, you keep making my booklist increase, with a corresponding decrease my bank balance to boot! =)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This sounds like it is an gonna be an interesting book to read. Michael, you keep making my booklist increase, with a corresponding decrease my bank balance to boot! =)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
