Comments on: Recommendation and Review: Lord, Save Us From Your Followers http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/recommendation-and-review-lord-save-us-from-your-followers ...dispatches from the post-evangelical wilderness Sat, 21 Nov 2009 13:41:53 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: Lord, Save us from legislation « Toward understanding http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/recommendation-and-review-lord-save-us-from-your-followers/comment-page-1#comment-501808 Lord, Save us from legislation « Toward understanding Sat, 18 Jul 2009 13:46:41 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=2721#comment-501808 [...] has reviewed and recommended a movie called ‘Lord, Save us from your [...] [...] has reviewed and recommended a movie called ‘Lord, Save us from your [...]

]]> By: Blake http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/recommendation-and-review-lord-save-us-from-your-followers/comment-page-1#comment-364133 Blake Mon, 19 Jan 2009 01:25:10 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=2721#comment-364133 I haven't seen the movie yet, but it sounds like something I should check out. One thing that does worry me (though I will reserve judgment until I see it) is that I think there is a fine line between pointing out the flaws (and there are many) of the contemporary church with love and simply bashing our fellow brothers and sisters in Christ. There are many things some Christians do that make me cringe, but I have to keep reminding myself that Christ's blood covers us all and that I am no better than them even if my sins are not as public. Mr. Spencer, how do you think the film walks this line? I haven’t seen the movie yet, but it sounds like something I should check out. One thing that does worry me (though I will reserve judgment until I see it) is that I think there is a fine line between pointing out the flaws (and there are many) of the contemporary church with love and simply bashing our fellow brothers and sisters in Christ.

There are many things some Christians do that make me cringe, but I have to keep reminding myself that Christ’s blood covers us all and that I am no better than them even if my sins are not as public.

Mr. Spencer, how do you think the film walks this line?

]]> By: Headless Unicorn Guy http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/recommendation-and-review-lord-save-us-from-your-followers/comment-page-1#comment-361746 Headless Unicorn Guy Sat, 17 Jan 2009 01:14:11 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=2721#comment-361746 <i>The atheist/agnostic/secularists feel oppressed by the Protestant Christian majority. The liberal mainline Protestants feel oppressed by the conservative Evangelicals. The conservative Evangelicals feel oppressed by the liberals AND the secularist. The Catholics feel oppressed by the Protestants and vice versa. The minority religions feel oppressed by everybody…</i> You know what that reminds me of, Obed? Listening to Dr Demento spin <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIlJ8ZCs4jY" rel="nofollow">this Tom Lehrer ditty</a>! <i>Y’know… in this country I really don’t think any of us are really as oppressed or persecuted as we would like to believe.</i> -- OBed I believe a few months ago, IMonk did at least one blog essay on Persecution Complex as it relates to Evangelicals. The atheist/agnostic/secularists feel oppressed by the Protestant Christian majority. The liberal mainline Protestants feel oppressed by the conservative Evangelicals. The conservative Evangelicals feel oppressed by the liberals AND the secularist. The Catholics feel oppressed by the Protestants and vice versa. The minority religions feel oppressed by everybody…

You know what that reminds me of, Obed? Listening to Dr Demento spin this Tom Lehrer ditty!

Y’know… in this country I really don’t think any of us are really as oppressed or persecuted as we would like to believe. — OBed

I believe a few months ago, IMonk did at least one blog essay on Persecution Complex as it relates to Evangelicals.

]]> By: e2c http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/recommendation-and-review-lord-save-us-from-your-followers/comment-page-1#comment-361635 e2c Fri, 16 Jan 2009 22:56:23 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=2721#comment-361635 Just ordered the book, and am looking forward to the DVD. Thanks for the heads up, iMonk! Just ordered the book, and am looking forward to the DVD. Thanks for the heads up, iMonk!

]]> By: Obed http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/recommendation-and-review-lord-save-us-from-your-followers/comment-page-1#comment-361450 Obed Fri, 16 Jan 2009 18:42:52 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=2721#comment-361450 <blockquote>Some will say that Merchant is naive and the anti-Christian forces in our society want to eradicate Christianity and take away our rights. </blockquote> Yesterday I was listening to an interview that included both the folks behind DC's athiest slogans on the buses and the folks behind the Christian rebuttle slogans on the buses. Listening to both sides imply that they are an oppressed minority, I realized something that made me laugh: we ALL have a persecution complex. The atheist/agnostic/secularists feel oppressed by the Protestant Christian majority. The liberal mainline Protestants feel oppressed by the conservative Evangelicals. The conservative Evangelicals feel oppressed by the liberals AND the secularist. The Catholics feel oppressed by the Protestants and vice versa. The minority religions feel oppressed by everybody... Y'know... in this country I really don't think any of us are really as oppressed or persecuted as we would like to believe. Oh, and I've seen clips of that movie... it's GREAT!

Some will say that Merchant is naive and the anti-Christian forces in our society want to eradicate Christianity and take away our rights.

Yesterday I was listening to an interview that included both the folks behind DC’s athiest slogans on the buses and the folks behind the Christian rebuttle slogans on the buses. Listening to both sides imply that they are an oppressed minority, I realized something that made me laugh: we ALL have a persecution complex.

The atheist/agnostic/secularists feel oppressed by the Protestant Christian majority. The liberal mainline Protestants feel oppressed by the conservative Evangelicals. The conservative Evangelicals feel oppressed by the liberals AND the secularist. The Catholics feel oppressed by the Protestants and vice versa. The minority religions feel oppressed by everybody…

Y’know… in this country I really don’t think any of us are really as oppressed or persecuted as we would like to believe.

Oh, and I’ve seen clips of that movie… it’s GREAT!

]]> By: Headless Unicorn Guy http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/recommendation-and-review-lord-save-us-from-your-followers/comment-page-1#comment-360431 Headless Unicorn Guy Thu, 15 Jan 2009 18:27:29 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=2721#comment-360431 <i>Bob: If Prop 8 supporters are Christians, and they are ‘outed” they should rejoice that they are counted worthy to suffer for Christ, and should love their enemies. True?</i> -- IMonk Never mind that this sort of "outing" -- an obvious "Let Bubba Do It" revenge tactic -- opens up whoever did the outing to some serious civil liability if Bubba gets physical. I remember something similar with extreme pro-lifers "outing" abortionists years ago and James Dobson "outing" someone (address/phone/contact) just last year in some Culture War dispute. I think the former even resulted in some Bubba Doing It. I'm from California, and you would not believe just how hot the passions ran over Prop 8 -- even hotter and shriller than the usual hot button over illegal aliens and "Mexifornia". Everybody out here went batshit crazy over Prop 8; the pro-8s before the election (from the pulpits) and the anti-8s afterwards (targeting Mormons and ACT-UPing their places of worship, from Stake to Temple). Including race cards played on both sides, as the heavy brown & black turnout for Obama turned out to also be very straitlaced on this subject. And this "Let Bubba Do It" outing is just the latest craziness. Politics, Politics, Politics, Politics, Politics as Religion -- I wonder no more why most Soviet-era Russians (immersed in Politics as State Religion) were alcoholics. Bob: If Prop 8 supporters are Christians, and they are ‘outed” they should rejoice that they are counted worthy to suffer for Christ, and should love their enemies. True? — IMonk

Never mind that this sort of “outing” — an obvious “Let Bubba Do It” revenge tactic — opens up whoever did the outing to some serious civil liability if Bubba gets physical.

I remember something similar with extreme pro-lifers “outing” abortionists years ago and James Dobson “outing” someone (address/phone/contact) just last year in some Culture War dispute. I think the former even resulted in some Bubba Doing It.

I’m from California, and you would not believe just how hot the passions ran over Prop 8 — even hotter and shriller than the usual hot button over illegal aliens and “Mexifornia”. Everybody out here went batshit crazy over Prop 8; the pro-8s before the election (from the pulpits) and the anti-8s afterwards (targeting Mormons and ACT-UPing their places of worship, from Stake to Temple). Including race cards played on both sides, as the heavy brown & black turnout for Obama turned out to also be very straitlaced on this subject. And this “Let Bubba Do It” outing is just the latest craziness.

Politics, Politics, Politics, Politics, Politics as Religion — I wonder no more why most Soviet-era Russians (immersed in Politics as State Religion) were alcoholics.

]]> By: robin dugall http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/recommendation-and-review-lord-save-us-from-your-followers/comment-page-1#comment-359516 robin dugall Wed, 14 Jan 2009 20:14:00 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=2721#comment-359516 Mr. Monk...or should I say, Rev. Monk, saw the movie...showed it to my community group...they loved it. Challenged them...made the entire community peer into the depth of their assumptions about Christian praxis and the "reputation" of followers in the culture. This is NOT a perfect documentary...but it is good, good, good...good fodder for conversation and prayer. I also HIGHLY recommend "Purple State of Mind". Keep up the good posts brother! Robin rdugall@apu.edu Mr. Monk…or should I say, Rev. Monk, saw the movie…showed it to my community group…they loved it. Challenged them…made the entire community peer into the depth of their assumptions about Christian praxis and the “reputation” of followers in the culture. This is NOT a perfect documentary…but it is good, good, good…good fodder for conversation and prayer. I also HIGHLY recommend “Purple State of Mind”.

Keep up the good posts brother!
Robin
rdugall@apu.edu

]]> By: Carolyn http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/recommendation-and-review-lord-save-us-from-your-followers/comment-page-1#comment-359448 Carolyn Wed, 14 Jan 2009 18:32:52 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=2721#comment-359448 The legislative branch of government cannot legislate true morality. Morality is a result of a heart right with God. There are none so blind as those who will not see. Love, mercy, kindness, charity...equal turning the other cheek. Love wins the culture wars...if and when they are to be won. Only God can fight spiritual wickedness in high places. The legislative branch of government cannot legislate true morality. Morality is a result of a heart right with God. There are none so blind as those who will not see. Love, mercy, kindness, charity…equal turning the other cheek. Love wins the culture wars…if and when they are to be won. Only God can fight spiritual wickedness in high places.

]]> By: Bror Erickson http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/recommendation-and-review-lord-save-us-from-your-followers/comment-page-1#comment-359379 Bror Erickson Wed, 14 Jan 2009 17:18:23 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=2721#comment-359379 Phil, W. I don't think we are in disagreement. I don't mean to deny that this world is his, and that he rules it as God. He does this even in non-christian countries. The point is he did not come to set up an earthly kingdom. He had more important things to do. So he rejected the Devil's offer. He refused to let his people make him king. And he told Pilate my kingdom is not of this world. Not only does this mean that his kingdom is not achieved through earthly means. It means that he has a different kingdom all together, in which he as God and man rules. He was speaking of heaven, which will not be achieved on earth, and definitely not by propositions and laws.(Means of this world, as much as war and revolution.) But it does have its embassies in this world where the Gospel is preached in its purity and the sacraments administered according to his institution. There he rules as he does in heaven from his throne, the Cross, in the forgiveness of sins. It is a kingdom of grace, not of law. We already had the law when Christ came, we didn't need any revisions to it either. What we needed was forgiveness, which is what Christ came to give. And in giving it he established his kingdom of grace. Phil, W.
I don’t think we are in disagreement. I don’t mean to deny that this world is his, and that he rules it as God. He does this even in non-christian countries.
The point is he did not come to set up an earthly kingdom. He had more important things to do. So he rejected the Devil’s offer. He refused to let his people make him king. And he told Pilate my kingdom is not of this world. Not only does this mean that his kingdom is not achieved through earthly means. It means that he has a different kingdom all together, in which he as God and man rules. He was speaking of heaven, which will not be achieved on earth, and definitely not by propositions and laws.(Means of this world, as much as war and revolution.) But it does have its embassies in this world where the Gospel is preached in its purity and the sacraments administered according to his institution. There he rules as he does in heaven from his throne, the Cross, in the forgiveness of sins. It is a kingdom of grace, not of law.
We already had the law when Christ came, we didn’t need any revisions to it either. What we needed was forgiveness, which is what Christ came to give. And in giving it he established his kingdom of grace.

]]> By: Phil W. http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/recommendation-and-review-lord-save-us-from-your-followers/comment-page-1#comment-359334 Phil W. Wed, 14 Jan 2009 16:12:46 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=2721#comment-359334 A minor theological point to Bror. When Jesus said that, it was to Pilate who had asked. 35"Am I a Jew?" Pilate replied. "It was your people and your chief priests who handed you over to me. What is it you have done?" To which Jesus responded: 36Jesus said, "My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jews. But now my kingdom is from another place." The idea here that Jesus is saying, "My kingdom is not achieved by the means of this world." His Kingdom is this world, that God's Kingdom come and Will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven. On the subject of this movie, it's a great one and very thought provoking. It made me question some of what I had always thought and confirmed other things that I've believed. A minor theological point to Bror. When Jesus said that, it was to Pilate who had asked.

35″Am I a Jew?” Pilate replied. “It was your people and your chief priests who handed you over to me. What is it you have done?”

To which Jesus responded:

36Jesus said, “My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jews. But now my kingdom is from another place.”

The idea here that Jesus is saying, “My kingdom is not achieved by the means of this world.”

His Kingdom is this world, that God’s Kingdom come and Will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven.

On the subject of this movie, it’s a great one and very thought provoking. It made me question some of what I had always thought and confirmed other things that I’ve believed.

]]>