Comments on: Recommendation and Review: Deep Church by Jim Belcher http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/recommendation-and-review-deep-church-by-jim-belcher ...dispatches from the post-evangelical wilderness Sat, 13 Mar 2010 13:48:28 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Holiday At The Sea » The Weekly Town Crier http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/recommendation-and-review-deep-church-by-jim-belcher/comment-page-1#comment-513354 Holiday At The Sea » The Weekly Town Crier Fri, 02 Oct 2009 19:50:51 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=4477#comment-513354 [...] Read Michael Spencer’s review/recommendation of Jim Belcher’s wonderful book “Deep Church.” [...] [...] Read Michael Spencer’s review/recommendation of Jim Belcher’s wonderful book “Deep Church.” [...]

]]> By: Chris Smith http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/recommendation-and-review-deep-church-by-jim-belcher/comment-page-1#comment-512760 Chris Smith Sun, 27 Sep 2009 21:45:18 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=4477#comment-512760 Since several folks here are searching for a deeper view... Here is a link to my recent review of DEEP CHURCH, in which I briefly outline several ways in which I believe we are called deeper in our ecclesiology... http://bit.ly/3oGIvy Chris Smith Editor The Englewood Review of Books Since several folks here are searching for a deeper view…

Here is a link to my recent review of DEEP CHURCH, in which I briefly outline several ways in which I believe we are called deeper in our ecclesiology…

http://bit.ly/3oGIvy

Chris Smith
Editor
The Englewood Review of Books

]]> By: RonP http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/recommendation-and-review-deep-church-by-jim-belcher/comment-page-1#comment-512603 RonP Fri, 25 Sep 2009 07:08:04 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=4477#comment-512603 I share your feelings and frustrations. As I see it, the church and kingdom of love and freedom that Christ planted was completely upside down from the governmental, religious, and institutional systems of this fallen world. That's why these systems tried so hard to exterminate the church early on. And while I think the church had already been seriously currupted by religious control freaks well before the fourth century, it was in that century that the world system stopped trying to exterminate the church and decided to marry it and began a process of systematically redesigning the church in its own image. Sadly, I'm not sure it's possible (as far as human efforts anyway) to completely undo what has been done. The institutionalization of Christianity runs 17 centuries deep, and far too many people are still in love with systematic religion. I and a number of like-minded Christian friends decided to leave institutional church several years ago to try and rediscover a more New Testament-style way of being a church family, but I must admit that, in many ways, we still live under the religious yoke that was passed down to us through the centuries. All I can say is keep on searching and questioning and plugging on -- and pray that Christ will someday move on His church and restore those things that have been lost. I share your feelings and frustrations. As I see it, the church and kingdom of love and freedom that Christ planted was completely upside down from the governmental, religious, and institutional systems of this fallen world. That’s why these systems tried so hard to exterminate the church early on. And while I think the church had already been seriously currupted by religious control freaks well before the fourth century, it was in that century that the world system stopped trying to exterminate the church and decided to marry it and began a process of systematically redesigning the church in its own image. Sadly, I’m not sure it’s possible (as far as human efforts anyway) to completely undo what has been done. The institutionalization of Christianity runs 17 centuries deep, and far too many people are still in love with systematic religion.
I and a number of like-minded Christian friends decided to leave institutional church several years ago to try and rediscover a more New Testament-style way of being a church family, but I must admit that, in many ways, we still live under the religious yoke that was passed down to us through the centuries.
All I can say is keep on searching and questioning and plugging on — and pray that Christ will someday move on His church and restore those things that have been lost.

]]> By: dopderbeck http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/recommendation-and-review-deep-church-by-jim-belcher/comment-page-1#comment-511776 dopderbeck Sat, 19 Sep 2009 17:31:40 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=4477#comment-511776 The book is ok, but he doesn't deal with a key dividing question, which is the doctrine of scripture. I'm afraid what he's basically advocating is conservative Presbyterianism with a smile. I wish there was some assurance that it's "deeper" than that. The book is ok, but he doesn’t deal with a key dividing question, which is the doctrine of scripture. I’m afraid what he’s basically advocating is conservative Presbyterianism with a smile. I wish there was some assurance that it’s “deeper” than that.

]]> By: iMonk http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/recommendation-and-review-deep-church-by-jim-belcher/comment-page-1#comment-511538 iMonk Thu, 17 Sep 2009 20:22:30 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=4477#comment-511538 OK everyone. Jim isn't writing about denominationalism and this thread isn't discussing denominationalism or non-denominationalism. OK everyone. Jim isn’t writing about denominationalism and this thread isn’t discussing denominationalism or non-denominationalism.

]]> By: charlie.hr http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/recommendation-and-review-deep-church-by-jim-belcher/comment-page-1#comment-511533 charlie.hr Thu, 17 Sep 2009 20:14:14 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=4477#comment-511533 I have a great respect for baptists (I've been one for most part of my life), and what is written in this brochure is perfectly sound with biblical teaching... but... As I said before, I've been convicted by what the apostle Paul tells the church in Corinth about "taking sides around names". I know that (especially) in this blog there's a great respect for people in different traditions and denominations; and what really amazes me is the incredible ability that the iMonk has to be able to swim in these diverse waters. I understand that for the majority of us, institutional denominationalism within christianity is a very common and useful thing... But... I've started to believe that, from biblical perspective, is a sin. No matter how we try to justify it. The moment we feel the "need" to distinguish ourselves from the rest of our brothers and sisters in Christ, for whatever reason (and theology is the biggest single reason for division within the church); that is a departure from biblical faith based on love, freedom, joy in the Spirit, etc (Romans 14). I know by heart all the justifications for denominationalism, I had use it myself for a very long time; but as a person who is trying to understand the gospel of Jesus and how it works in the relations within the kingdom of God, the more I struggle to keep thinking that adding a label to our simple faith is a good thing. Jesus said (John 17) that the world will know him because of the love that we have for each other and the unity that they will see. This unity is certainly not a theological one but a familiar one where we are united by one name: Jesus Christ. But enter the 4th century... Suddenly, a community united by love and freedom, became an institution bound by academic institutionalism (faith?). If we let someone to take control of "what" we believe under the threat of damnation, no matter how you put it or the motives you have to do it, you are ripping apart the foundation of our simple faith: Love and Freedom. Certainly, is not an easy task to live the life in this love and freedom. Humanity has an intense addiction to religion (rules, liturgy and "special" people telling us what to do or believe). Paul told the Galatians to not go astray of the grace and freedom that had been given to them, and the writer to the Hebrews insisted to leave behind the bondage of religion and move forward to a mature faith in Jesus Christ. But here we are, 1700 years later, still wondering why we are in need of another reformation. I've come to believe that you cannot reform what is rotten from the root. As William Esaum rightly puts in one of his books... the church is not in need of reformation but resurrection. I believe that Romans 12:1-2 can stir a lot inside present christianity... The keyword... TRANSFORMATION. Peace & Love. I have a great respect for baptists (I’ve been one for most part of my life), and what is written in this brochure is perfectly sound with biblical teaching…

but…

As I said before, I’ve been convicted by what the apostle Paul tells the church in Corinth about “taking sides around names”.

I know that (especially) in this blog there’s a great respect for people in different traditions and denominations; and what really amazes me is the incredible ability that the iMonk has to be able to swim in these diverse waters. I understand that for the majority of us, institutional denominationalism within christianity is a very common and useful thing…

But… I’ve started to believe that, from biblical perspective, is a sin. No matter how we try to justify it. The moment we feel the “need” to distinguish ourselves from the rest of our brothers and sisters in Christ, for whatever reason (and theology is the biggest single reason for division within the church); that is a departure from biblical faith based on love, freedom, joy in the Spirit, etc (Romans 14).

I know by heart all the justifications for denominationalism, I had use it myself for a very long time; but as a person who is trying to understand the gospel of Jesus and how it works in the relations within the kingdom of God, the more I struggle to keep thinking that adding a label to our simple faith is a good thing.

Jesus said (John 17) that the world will know him because of the love that we have for each other and the unity that they will see. This unity is certainly not a theological one but a familiar one where we are united by one name: Jesus Christ.

But enter the 4th century…

Suddenly, a community united by love and freedom, became an institution bound by academic institutionalism (faith?). If we let someone to take control of “what” we believe under the threat of damnation, no matter how you put it or the motives you have to do it, you are ripping apart the foundation of our simple faith: Love and Freedom.

Certainly, is not an easy task to live the life in this love and freedom. Humanity has an intense addiction to religion (rules, liturgy and “special” people telling us what to do or believe). Paul told the Galatians to not go astray of the grace and freedom that had been given to them, and the writer to the Hebrews insisted to leave behind the bondage of religion and move forward to a mature faith in Jesus Christ.

But here we are, 1700 years later, still wondering why we are in need of another reformation. I’ve come to believe that you cannot reform what is rotten from the root. As William Esaum rightly puts in one of his books… the church is not in need of reformation but resurrection.

I believe that Romans 12:1-2 can stir a lot inside present christianity…

The keyword… TRANSFORMATION.

Peace & Love.

]]> By: James the Mad http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/recommendation-and-review-deep-church-by-jim-belcher/comment-page-1#comment-511529 James the Mad Thu, 17 Sep 2009 19:44:53 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=4477#comment-511529 Man, you're killing my reading budget here - just got my copy of Jesus Girls, and once I get to $25.00 on my Amazon order (free shipping, he says, grinning) I'll have a copy of this one on it's way as well. Which should work out just fine - I think I have 4 books left on my current reading list. Man, you’re killing my reading budget here – just got my copy of Jesus Girls, and once I get to $25.00 on my Amazon order (free shipping, he says, grinning) I’ll have a copy of this one on it’s way as well. Which should work out just fine – I think I have 4 books left on my current reading list.

]]> By: Dean Cameron http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/recommendation-and-review-deep-church-by-jim-belcher/comment-page-1#comment-511420 Dean Cameron Thu, 17 Sep 2009 12:37:36 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=4477#comment-511420 I would be curious to hear what your feelings would be regarding the theology of this Denomination. http://www.abc-usa.org/portals/0/ABC10FactsBrochure.pdf I would be curious to hear what your feelings would be regarding the theology of this Denomination. http://www.abc-usa.org/portals/0/ABC10FactsBrochure.pdf

]]> By: charlie.hr http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/recommendation-and-review-deep-church-by-jim-belcher/comment-page-1#comment-511379 charlie.hr Thu, 17 Sep 2009 03:37:03 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=4477#comment-511379 is that possible? is that possible?

]]> By: charlie.hr http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/recommendation-and-review-deep-church-by-jim-belcher/comment-page-1#comment-511378 charlie.hr Thu, 17 Sep 2009 03:36:17 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=4477#comment-511378 I'd rather send you my comments to a private e-mail, 'cause I might violate some of the blogs rules. I’d rather send you my comments to a private e-mail, ’cause I might violate some of the blogs rules.

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