“By the logic of some, infant baptism would be child abuse. It’s a worthy topic.”

I am not sure how worthy a topic it is but I am sure that this is an unfortunate case of defining the term “child abuse” down.

In an age when parently authority is under attack and in an age when children can be taken from parents at the mear hint of abuse – real abuse – I would suggest that throwing terms like child abuse around carelessly is not a wise thing to do.

Putting that aside it also serves the unintended purpose of desensitizing us to REAL abuse. If a parent baptizing an infant is abuse then what do we call it when a parent beats a child so badly that he/she is left crippled for life? Words are important and when we misuse words there are important cultural implications.

My own opinion is that evangelism must always be motivated by love. So, tell me, is it love NOT to share the Good News? Is it love NOT to tell someone about God’s love for them? What motivates YOU when you fail to share the Gospel message. Is it fear of rejection? Fear of being offensive? Shame? Shelfishness?

If I play your game I can simply accuse you of self-justifying your disobedience to Jesus’ commandment to share the Gospel. Incidently, it is also possible to do the wrong thing out of love.

I couldn’t disagree more. This is the classic fear-based argument for evangelizing that I heard over and over as a child. Since it’s based in fear, it really is self-concerned, instead of being truly concerned for the other. I’ve been told that sharing the Gospel is always an act of love. But I think I Cor. 13 shows that it’s possible to do the right things without love. The fact that one is evangelizing does not trump I Cor. 13 in any way.

1. Cadre Comments: Eyewitness Control of the Gospel Tradition: A Game of Whack-a-Mole? by JD Walters
In their defense of the historical reliability of the Gospel traditions evangelical scholars often appeal to the controlling influence of the eyewitne…

Perhaps the problem begins when we start to see “conversion” as something that can or should be mass produced, outside of personal relationship. When we want to count those hands, and are not walking alongside the pilgrims, young or old, who own the hands, and for whom metanoia is a process that may take seconds, hours, weeks, months, years or decades…

It’s not abusive for children or teenagers to hear the Good News that Jesus is alive and loves them, but children are so terribly vulnerable to fear and to social rejection. They want to belong and they lack the judgement that is available to adults (or most adults anyway) to reflect more objectively on what it is they want to belong to, and why.

I’m sure that when abusive tactics are used, this sets up the young person to fall into disillusion, disappointment and anger as he or she matures and thinks back on what was done and why. Where will the preacher be when that happens? Probably somewhere else, counting a few more hands.

I notice that no one has responded to the question about infant baptism, Monk, perhaps because most respondents here are not part of churches that practice this. I don’t have an answer, but have recently been part of a discussion elsewhere about whether baptisms should take place against the wishes of a parent. The conundrum involves the extent to which baptism is viewed as a sacrament and an occasion of grace. At the one extreme it would be seen as some kind of ‘magic’ (and it sounds as if the Sinners’ Prayer, for some Fundies, is also a form of that same magic). At the other extreme, some hold that baptism can only be “believers’ baptism” in which it doesn’t really matter if God shows up because it’s only symbolic and all about us making our stand.

Baptism is clearly another topic altogether but the issue of abuse or riding roughshod over people’s feelings and preferences, in pursuit of what’s seen as a more important goal by those who believe they know better – well, that’s pretty much the same old story. Thanks for a great topic and blessings on you for trying to be both truthful and loving with the young people in your care.

youth ministry cohorts are the worse in the area of manipulation. the pressure on camps, retreats, etc to make converts is ridiculous. but the role of presenting the Gospel and expecting a response cannot be diminished.

the culture presents all sorts of “good news” approaches, but we don’t consider them abuse. try this product, it will fix you. now that’s abuse!

“NO KIDDING – I used the example of Carrie to demonstrate the weakness of your argument!”

I realize that, but in so doing you only demonstrated your inability to distinguish between fact and fiction.