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	<title>Comments on: Put A Warning On The Gospels</title>
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	<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/put-a-warning-on-the-gospels</link>
	<description>...dispatches from the post-evangelical wilderness</description>
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		<title>By: visit now</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/put-a-warning-on-the-gospels/comment-page-2#comment-339268</link>
		<dc:creator>visit now</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Dec 2008 08:56:04 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>This site is truly a great resource thanks for all your hard work</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This site is truly a great resource thanks for all your hard work</p>
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		<title>By: John Warren</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/put-a-warning-on-the-gospels/comment-page-2#comment-233690</link>
		<dc:creator>John Warren</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2008 04:05:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=2008#comment-233690</guid>
		<description>Apparently we did need Pauline Christology to understand the importance of Jesus, or else why did God give it?

To understand *that* Jesus is important, all you need is the Gospels.  But to make sense of it all, you either needed to have been on the Emmaus road or in the upper room with Him while He explained it all (and even then they had a hard time with it), or just read Paul&#039;s, Peter&#039;s, John&#039;s, &amp; Jude&#039;s letters, in conjunction with the Gospels.  

If God hadn&#039;t set apart Paul for the work he did, Christianity would have just devolved into a splinter sect of Judaism, a historical curiosity which we might have called the Ebionites.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Apparently we did need Pauline Christology to understand the importance of Jesus, or else why did God give it?</p>
<p>To understand *that* Jesus is important, all you need is the Gospels.  But to make sense of it all, you either needed to have been on the Emmaus road or in the upper room with Him while He explained it all (and even then they had a hard time with it), or just read Paul&#8217;s, Peter&#8217;s, John&#8217;s, &amp; Jude&#8217;s letters, in conjunction with the Gospels.  </p>
<p>If God hadn&#8217;t set apart Paul for the work he did, Christianity would have just devolved into a splinter sect of Judaism, a historical curiosity which we might have called the Ebionites.</p>
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		<title>By: Joel</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/put-a-warning-on-the-gospels/comment-page-2#comment-233496</link>
		<dc:creator>Joel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 16:10:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=2008#comment-233496</guid>
		<description>&quot;That’s right. We don’t need all this theology. We should just realize that this is God in the flesh himself speaking to us. Oh, wait. That’s Christology. Can’t import that. Okay we need to realize that someone is standing before us, the Body of Christ, telling us how to live. Oh, wait. Pauline ecclesiology. Can’t import that one in, either. Okay, somebody is standing before a group of other people and telling them what they need to do if they want to follow him around while he’s teaching. And that should be enough for us to know it is of top importance.&quot;

You have  a low view of the Gospels. We do not need Pauline Christology to understand why Jesus is important. As he says at the end of Matthew, &quot;all authority on heaven and on earth has been given to me.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;That’s right. We don’t need all this theology. We should just realize that this is God in the flesh himself speaking to us. Oh, wait. That’s Christology. Can’t import that. Okay we need to realize that someone is standing before us, the Body of Christ, telling us how to live. Oh, wait. Pauline ecclesiology. Can’t import that one in, either. Okay, somebody is standing before a group of other people and telling them what they need to do if they want to follow him around while he’s teaching. And that should be enough for us to know it is of top importance.&#8221;</p>
<p>You have  a low view of the Gospels. We do not need Pauline Christology to understand why Jesus is important. As he says at the end of Matthew, &#8220;all authority on heaven and on earth has been given to me.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Brian</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/put-a-warning-on-the-gospels/comment-page-1#comment-232462</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Apr 2008 05:55:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=2008#comment-232462</guid>
		<description>Lonleypilgrim - I guess I&#039;m not seeing any real contradiction between what I wrote and what you did. Did you intend for their to be? After further discussion we might find that we differ on the specifics of what &quot;all&quot; Jesus commanded or the primary emphasis of the SOTM(for example). Or, maybe not.

Steven - No, I do not think &quot;more clearly&quot; certainly implies better. Else, the Old Testament would be &quot;worse&quot; because the Gospel is not clearly revealed there. They are all &quot;good&quot; - O.T., Gospels, Epistles because they fulfill their specific task. And really, the timing of the writing isn&#039;t what I had in mind. It was when the timing of the events reported occurred.

Matt - I don&#039;t think I said that the Gospels apply to the Old Covenant. And yes, the Gospels were produced post-Resurrection. But, the events within the Gospels and Jesus&#039; teaching ministry occurred while the Old Covenant was still in force - which is what we must keep in mind. This is why we understand that passages like &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?q=Matt%2023%3A23&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Matt 23:23&lt;/a&gt; do not teach that we should tithe. What Jesus said to the Pharisees in that passage was said realizing what law they were following. 

Question : If you take the SOTM(for example) we know that we cannot be all that Jesus talks about on our own. We need the empowerment of the Spirit. But what about the people who first heard that sermon? What would have been their first thoughts? Could they have possibly thought they could be &quot;pure in heart&quot; if they were being honest with themselves. I&#039;m just afraid that we are reading our understanding back into the intention of what Jesus was saying. I am aware of the full implications of this? No, not really. And I fully admit I could be wrong about more than a few things. I&#039;m just trying to work it out like the rest of you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lonleypilgrim &#8211; I guess I&#8217;m not seeing any real contradiction between what I wrote and what you did. Did you intend for their to be? After further discussion we might find that we differ on the specifics of what &#8220;all&#8221; Jesus commanded or the primary emphasis of the SOTM(for example). Or, maybe not.</p>
<p>Steven &#8211; No, I do not think &#8220;more clearly&#8221; certainly implies better. Else, the Old Testament would be &#8220;worse&#8221; because the Gospel is not clearly revealed there. They are all &#8220;good&#8221; &#8211; O.T., Gospels, Epistles because they fulfill their specific task. And really, the timing of the writing isn&#8217;t what I had in mind. It was when the timing of the events reported occurred.</p>
<p>Matt &#8211; I don&#8217;t think I said that the Gospels apply to the Old Covenant. And yes, the Gospels were produced post-Resurrection. But, the events within the Gospels and Jesus&#8217; teaching ministry occurred while the Old Covenant was still in force &#8211; which is what we must keep in mind. This is why we understand that passages like <a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?q=Matt%2023%3A23" rel="nofollow">Matt 23:23</a> do not teach that we should tithe. What Jesus said to the Pharisees in that passage was said realizing what law they were following. </p>
<p>Question : If you take the SOTM(for example) we know that we cannot be all that Jesus talks about on our own. We need the empowerment of the Spirit. But what about the people who first heard that sermon? What would have been their first thoughts? Could they have possibly thought they could be &#8220;pure in heart&#8221; if they were being honest with themselves. I&#8217;m just afraid that we are reading our understanding back into the intention of what Jesus was saying. I am aware of the full implications of this? No, not really. And I fully admit I could be wrong about more than a few things. I&#8217;m just trying to work it out like the rest of you.</p>
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		<title>By: Barry - pmPilgrim</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/put-a-warning-on-the-gospels/comment-page-1#comment-232398</link>
		<dc:creator>Barry - pmPilgrim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Apr 2008 01:45:18 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>You can preach this one anytime. See how easy it is to afflict the comfortable? Irony has such a way of getting our attention- or our inability to see. Thanks!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You can preach this one anytime. See how easy it is to afflict the comfortable? Irony has such a way of getting our attention- or our inability to see. Thanks!</p>
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		<title>By: Brian</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/put-a-warning-on-the-gospels/comment-page-1#comment-232321</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Apr 2008 21:33:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=2008#comment-232321</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m aghast! I just noticed I had some people questioning my brilliant comment. ;) But as I&#039;m still at work I&#039;ll have to defend my honor at a later hour. 

And this is just an aside, but I was wishing that I could get together with a group of people locally to interact like we&#039;re doing here. iMonk commenters are some of the best.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m aghast! I just noticed I had some people questioning my brilliant comment. <img src='http://www.internetmonk.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' />  But as I&#8217;m still at work I&#8217;ll have to defend my honor at a later hour. </p>
<p>And this is just an aside, but I was wishing that I could get together with a group of people locally to interact like we&#8217;re doing here. iMonk commenters are some of the best.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob Sacamento</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/put-a-warning-on-the-gospels/comment-page-1#comment-232247</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Sacamento</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Apr 2008 17:50:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=2008#comment-232247</guid>
		<description>&quot;I’m glad we talked about this. A lot of people could be easily confused.&quot;

Yep.  Especially me.  Over at another blog recently, someone was absolutely flabbergasted that I said we couldn&#039;t &quot;go it alone&quot; in reading and interpreting the gospels, that we needed what Paul, John, Peter, et al. said too.  I thought this was pretty much Christianity 101, but I really put a torque on the noses of, I think, the majority of that blog&#039;s readers.  I was, and still am, completely confused.

The problem with tongue-in-cheek posts like this is that I (being admittedly clueless, anyway) can&#039;t always tell exactly what is being argued for and exactly what is being argued against.  I think maybe I agree with you whole-heartedly.  But maybe our opinions here are night and day different.  I can&#039;t tell.  My apologies to the other readers who don&#039;t have this problem.  If you have the time and inclination in the near future for a more direct, less ironic post on what you mean, it would be helpful -- to me, anyway.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I’m glad we talked about this. A lot of people could be easily confused.&#8221;</p>
<p>Yep.  Especially me.  Over at another blog recently, someone was absolutely flabbergasted that I said we couldn&#8217;t &#8220;go it alone&#8221; in reading and interpreting the gospels, that we needed what Paul, John, Peter, et al. said too.  I thought this was pretty much Christianity 101, but I really put a torque on the noses of, I think, the majority of that blog&#8217;s readers.  I was, and still am, completely confused.</p>
<p>The problem with tongue-in-cheek posts like this is that I (being admittedly clueless, anyway) can&#8217;t always tell exactly what is being argued for and exactly what is being argued against.  I think maybe I agree with you whole-heartedly.  But maybe our opinions here are night and day different.  I can&#8217;t tell.  My apologies to the other readers who don&#8217;t have this problem.  If you have the time and inclination in the near future for a more direct, less ironic post on what you mean, it would be helpful &#8212; to me, anyway.</p>
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		<title>By: PamBG</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/put-a-warning-on-the-gospels/comment-page-1#comment-232139</link>
		<dc:creator>PamBG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Apr 2008 13:35:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=2008#comment-232139</guid>
		<description>rampancy, NT Wright was not joking. 

He wrote: &quot;And this, sadly, chimes in with other impressions I have received from elsewhere within the same theological stable - with, for instance, the suggestion that since Paul&#039;s epistles give us &#039;the gospel&#039; while &#039;the Gospels&#039; simply give us stories about Jesus, we shouldn&#039;t make the reading of the latter into the key moment in the first half of the Communion Service. (In case anyone should rub their eyes in disbelief, I have actually heard this seriously argued more than once in the last year or two.)&#039;

Here is a link:http://tinyurl.com/557kwb</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>rampancy, NT Wright was not joking. </p>
<p>He wrote: &#8220;And this, sadly, chimes in with other impressions I have received from elsewhere within the same theological stable &#8211; with, for instance, the suggestion that since Paul&#8217;s epistles give us &#8216;the gospel&#8217; while &#8216;the Gospels&#8217; simply give us stories about Jesus, we shouldn&#8217;t make the reading of the latter into the key moment in the first half of the Communion Service. (In case anyone should rub their eyes in disbelief, I have actually heard this seriously argued more than once in the last year or two.)&#8217;</p>
<p>Here is a link:http://tinyurl.com/557kwb</p>
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		<title>By: dumb ox</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/put-a-warning-on-the-gospels/comment-page-1#comment-232021</link>
		<dc:creator>dumb ox</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Apr 2008 04:29:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=2008#comment-232021</guid>
		<description>&quot;They&#039;ll argue who can sit next to the throne,
 And I cringe to hear them say, &#039;Thy kingdom come&#039;.
 They think they know what they&#039;re getting into,
 But we both know that they haven&#039;t got a clue.
 Because it&#039;s not the same,
 It&#039;s a different thing all together,
 It&#039;s not the same,
 It&#039;s another thing altogether...
 This is love.&quot;

 - from &quot;This is Love&quot;, by Steve Bell, 
   from his CD &quot;Beyond a Shadow&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;They&#8217;ll argue who can sit next to the throne,<br />
 And I cringe to hear them say, &#8216;Thy kingdom come&#8217;.<br />
 They think they know what they&#8217;re getting into,<br />
 But we both know that they haven&#8217;t got a clue.<br />
 Because it&#8217;s not the same,<br />
 It&#8217;s a different thing all together,<br />
 It&#8217;s not the same,<br />
 It&#8217;s another thing altogether&#8230;<br />
 This is love.&#8221;</p>
<p> &#8211; from &#8220;This is Love&#8221;, by Steve Bell,<br />
   from his CD &#8220;Beyond a Shadow&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Rick Frueh</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/put-a-warning-on-the-gospels/comment-page-1#comment-232014</link>
		<dc:creator>Rick Frueh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Apr 2008 04:05:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=2008#comment-232014</guid>
		<description>Jesus tells the rich young ruler to sell all that he had and give it to the poor and then follow Him. When the disciples asked Him &quot;Who can be saved?&quot; the Lord said all things are possible with God. Now there are cults, that without the revelation of the epistles, take that to mean you cannot be rich and be saved.

The epistles are the further and explanatory revelation of the gospels.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jesus tells the rich young ruler to sell all that he had and give it to the poor and then follow Him. When the disciples asked Him &#8220;Who can be saved?&#8221; the Lord said all things are possible with God. Now there are cults, that without the revelation of the epistles, take that to mean you cannot be rich and be saved.</p>
<p>The epistles are the further and explanatory revelation of the gospels.</p>
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