Comments on: Practice Resurrection, part one http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/practice-resurrection-part-one ...dispatches from the post-evangelical wilderness Sun, 12 Feb 2012 07:36:12 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: RonP http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/practice-resurrection-part-one/comment-page-1#comment-524801 RonP Thu, 11 Feb 2010 09:05:20 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=5633#comment-524801 Good insights, Rick. I agree that there's not much use in trying to target or instigate fundamental reforms in The Church -- by which I take it you mean these long-standing religious institutions that dominate Christendom. Institutions of any kind, but particularly those of the religious variety, tend to be resistant to fundamental change by their very nature. They're a lot like physical buildings in that sense. You can perform renovations or make additions to a building quite easily. But when it comes to making alterations at a foundational level, that is very difficult, if not impossible -- not without threatening to bring the whole structure down. Maybe we just need to expand our definition of The Church beyond traditionally established institutional boundaries. Jesus said that He would be present if only two or three people were gathered together in His name. So, maybe, one person discipling another or a family or group of friends pursuing Christ together fits Christ's perception of His church just as much as any denomination or institution containing thousands or even millions of believers. I know many Christians would reject this view, but maybe it really is that simple -- that whenever God's people get together in Christ's name to pursue His purposes, regardless of the setting or the number of people involved, we actually become His body and His church. If that is true, then we are not part of The Church only when we "go to church" -- but, rather, we are The Church any time and any where there's more than one follower of Christ in the same place, even if those gathered are members of different church institutions or denominations. Christians of different denominations and traditions worshipping, seeking, and serving Christ together? -- And also viewing themselves as The Church in a way that is not limited to specific church or denominational boundaries? Now that's a revolution I'd like to see in my lifetime. Good insights, Rick. I agree that there’s not much use in trying to target or instigate fundamental reforms in The Church — by which I take it you mean these long-standing religious institutions that dominate Christendom. Institutions of any kind, but particularly those of the religious variety, tend to be resistant to fundamental change by their very nature. They’re a lot like physical buildings in that sense. You can perform renovations or make additions to a building quite easily. But when it comes to making alterations at a foundational level, that is very difficult, if not impossible — not without threatening to bring the whole structure down.
Maybe we just need to expand our definition of The Church beyond traditionally established institutional boundaries. Jesus said that He would be present if only two or three people were gathered together in His name. So, maybe, one person discipling another or a family or group of friends pursuing Christ together fits Christ’s perception of His church just as much as any denomination or institution containing thousands or even millions of believers. I know many Christians would reject this view, but maybe it really is that simple — that whenever God’s people get together in Christ’s name to pursue His purposes, regardless of the setting or the number of people involved, we actually become His body and His church. If that is true, then we are not part of The Church only when we “go to church” — but, rather, we are The Church any time and any where there’s more than one follower of Christ in the same place, even if those gathered are members of different church institutions or denominations. Christians of different denominations and traditions worshipping, seeking, and serving Christ together? — And also viewing themselves as The Church in a way that is not limited to specific church or denominational boundaries? Now that’s a revolution I’d like to see in my lifetime.

]]> By: Tom Huguenot http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/practice-resurrection-part-one/comment-page-1#comment-524723 Tom Huguenot Tue, 09 Feb 2010 21:10:07 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=5633#comment-524723 Well, the thing is, American Evangelicalism is not "Protestant Christianity" as a whole, and, for that matter all American evangelical churches are not talkative, noisy, busy, controling and image conscious. My father-in-law has been pastoring a small church (like 50 in attendance on a given Sunday) for 35 years and I do not find in his ministry and in the life of this church the problems that are so often mentioned on IM. This being said, I certainly not believe that evangelical Christianity (whether American or its tiny European franchise) is worth preserving. Actually, the sooner it falls, the better. Now, I could say the same thing about the kind of Protestant liberalism I was raised in or the different trends within Roman Catholicism. I am a fairly conservative guy theologically speaking but working daily in secularized Europe makes me think that a massive change of pardigm is inevitable and that none of our churches will remain untouched by it. Well, the thing is, American Evangelicalism is not “Protestant Christianity” as a whole, and, for that matter all American evangelical churches are not talkative, noisy, busy, controling and image conscious.

My father-in-law has been pastoring a small church (like 50 in attendance on a given Sunday) for 35 years and I do not find in his ministry and in the life of this church the problems that are so often mentioned on IM.

This being said, I certainly not believe that evangelical Christianity (whether American or its tiny European franchise) is worth preserving. Actually, the sooner it falls, the better. Now, I could say the same thing about the kind of Protestant liberalism I was raised in or the different trends within Roman Catholicism.

I am a fairly conservative guy theologically speaking but working daily in secularized Europe makes me think that a massive change of pardigm is inevitable and that none of our churches will remain untouched by it.

]]> By: Obed http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/practice-resurrection-part-one/comment-page-1#comment-524714 Obed Tue, 09 Feb 2010 17:39:13 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=5633#comment-524714 This is something I've been praying for and working at in my own walk lately. For me, the Prayer Book has been the biggest practical help. I remember the leader of a Messianic Jewish group once tell me that when it comes to becoming more Torah observant (which is definitely the classic Jewish method of spiritual formation), you "don't eat the whole elephant at once." Kosher-related irony aside, that is very good advice for any spiritual formation. If we look at the goal, it seems totally unobtainable. But by making little changes here and there, we build those spiritual muscles. Taking some advice from Fr. Brian Taylor (<i>Spirituality for Everyday Living: An Adaptation of the Rule of St. Benedict</i>), I've begun to use the Daily Office devotions as the starting point. I've found a few things: 1) it helps me think about God more throughout the day. 2) While I might sometimes miss the Noon or Early Evening devotion, the Morning and At the End of the Day ones are now hard to miss. 3) The places in the devotions reserved for optional personal prayers has helped to build up my sensitivity for more intercessory prayer as it reminds me to pray for others. 4)The liturgical prayer has led to better prayer in general. So, yeah, little steps that will lead to bigger ones :) This is something I’ve been praying for and working at in my own walk lately. For me, the Prayer Book has been the biggest practical help. I remember the leader of a Messianic Jewish group once tell me that when it comes to becoming more Torah observant (which is definitely the classic Jewish method of spiritual formation), you “don’t eat the whole elephant at once.” Kosher-related irony aside, that is very good advice for any spiritual formation. If we look at the goal, it seems totally unobtainable. But by making little changes here and there, we build those spiritual muscles. Taking some advice from Fr. Brian Taylor (Spirituality for Everyday Living: An Adaptation of the Rule of St. Benedict), I’ve begun to use the Daily Office devotions as the starting point. I’ve found a few things: 1) it helps me think about God more throughout the day. 2) While I might sometimes miss the Noon or Early Evening devotion, the Morning and At the End of the Day ones are now hard to miss. 3) The places in the devotions reserved for optional personal prayers has helped to build up my sensitivity for more intercessory prayer as it reminds me to pray for others. 4)The liturgical prayer has led to better prayer in general. So, yeah, little steps that will lead to bigger ones :)

]]> By: greg r http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/practice-resurrection-part-one/comment-page-1#comment-524706 greg r Tue, 09 Feb 2010 16:18:14 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=5633#comment-524706 very well said Rick; yes, I suspect this will be a very sneaky revolution. the good news, ?? look at the radical nature of the 1st century revolution started by a mere handfull. nice post Greg R very well said Rick; yes, I suspect this will be a very sneaky revolution. the good news, ?? look at the radical nature of the 1st century revolution started by a mere handfull.

nice post
Greg R

]]> By: Clark http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/practice-resurrection-part-one/comment-page-1#comment-524701 Clark Tue, 09 Feb 2010 11:59:54 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=5633#comment-524701 Gandhi said "I like your Christ; I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ." Imagine if Gandhi could see us now what he'd say. Gandhi said “I like your Christ; I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ.” Imagine if Gandhi could see us now what he’d say.

]]> By: Headless Unicorn Guy http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/practice-resurrection-part-one/comment-page-1#comment-524687 Headless Unicorn Guy Mon, 08 Feb 2010 23:02:13 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=5633#comment-524687 <i>Smiley-face Jesus, cool Jesus, I’m okay you’re okay Jesus; any version of Jesus that markets well is just a poor faxsimile of the real thing.</i> I think you could say something similar about just about anybody; it's the difference between a cartoon of someone and the actual person. Smiley-face Jesus, cool Jesus, I’m okay you’re okay Jesus; any version of Jesus that markets well is just a poor faxsimile of the real thing.

I think you could say something similar about just about anybody; it’s the difference between a cartoon of someone and the actual person.

]]> By: Resources on Sin « …thorns compose… http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/practice-resurrection-part-one/comment-page-1#comment-524680 Resources on Sin « …thorns compose… Mon, 08 Feb 2010 20:08:47 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=5633#comment-524680 [...] understanding, and so I pass these titles on to you. Speaking of books, iMonk recently announced a forthcoming review of Eugene Peterson’s latest, and you should check that out as well. Not the Way It’s Supposed to Be: A Breviary of Sin, [...] [...] understanding, and so I pass these titles on to you. Speaking of books, iMonk recently announced a forthcoming review of Eugene Peterson’s latest, and you should check that out as well. Not the Way It’s Supposed to Be: A Breviary of Sin, [...]

]]> By: MWPeak http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/practice-resurrection-part-one/comment-page-1#comment-524669 MWPeak Mon, 08 Feb 2010 00:21:02 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=5633#comment-524669 To live is to suffer. I believe that the handicapped who suffer abuse and neglect are the heroes of the Christian faith. It is my intention to embrace my own neglect and suffering so that I may enter heaven fully aware of the sufferings of Christ. May God never deliver me for His glory. To live is to suffer.

I believe that the handicapped who suffer abuse and neglect are the heroes of the Christian faith. It is my intention to embrace my own neglect and suffering so that I may enter heaven fully aware of the sufferings of Christ.

May God never deliver me for His glory.

]]> By: JoanieD http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/practice-resurrection-part-one/comment-page-1#comment-524660 JoanieD Sun, 07 Feb 2010 18:12:37 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=5633#comment-524660 Denise Fath writes above, "Let’s pray that in the next decade there will be a new emphasis on this supremely important growth!" Yes, I agree, Denise. (And I clicked on your name to take a look at your blog and you have written some great stuff there!) Denise Fath writes above, “Let’s pray that in the next decade there will be a new emphasis on this supremely important growth!”

Yes, I agree, Denise. (And I clicked on your name to take a look at your blog and you have written some great stuff there!)

]]> By: Denise Fath http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/practice-resurrection-part-one/comment-page-1#comment-524659 Denise Fath Sun, 07 Feb 2010 17:52:44 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=5633#comment-524659 So true Mr. Presley! It's easy to admire virtue from afar, but it takes so much work to develop it within ourselves! And indeed nothing inspires like the example from those we know and admire. People can form groups and associations and try to stimulate a response, but what's most effective generally happens slowly and organically. Long story short - Christianity needs more saints! And more people trying to be saints! So true Mr. Presley! It’s easy to admire virtue from afar, but it takes so much work to develop it within ourselves!

And indeed nothing inspires like the example from those we know and admire. People can form groups and associations and try to stimulate a response, but what’s most effective generally happens slowly and organically. Long story short – Christianity needs more saints! And more people trying to be saints!

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