Comments on: Post-Evangelicals and the Path of Catholic Spirituality http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/post-evangelicals-and-the-path-of-catholic-spirituality ...dispatches from the post-evangelical wilderness Sat, 21 Nov 2009 06:58:24 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: Bear http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/post-evangelicals-and-the-path-of-catholic-spirituality/comment-page-1#comment-130643 Bear Thu, 13 Sep 2007 02:57:32 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/post-evangelicals-and-the-path-of-catholic-spirituality#comment-130643 This is a really good website on how to use Anglican prayer beads: http://kingofpeace.org/prayerbeads.htm Also worth checking out (for use of the Jesus Prayer in Protestant traditions): http://www.anamchara.org.uk/index.html This is a really good website on how to use Anglican prayer beads:

http://kingofpeace.org/prayerbeads.htm

Also worth checking out (for use of the Jesus Prayer in Protestant traditions):

http://www.anamchara.org.uk/index.html

]]> By: Eric http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/post-evangelicals-and-the-path-of-catholic-spirituality/comment-page-1#comment-130506 Eric Wed, 12 Sep 2007 15:13:58 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/post-evangelicals-and-the-path-of-catholic-spirituality#comment-130506 The problems being discussed in this post are also highlighted by Todd Wilken. He states, "Many Christians today think of themselves as conservative. They are pro-life, pro-family. They listen to Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity. They watch FOX News. They vote traditional values. But can you be politically, socially and morally conservative without being theologically conservative? Oh, yes you can." Wilken further states, "You see, many Christians think of themselves as conservative Christians. But they have confused cultural conservatism with theological conservatism. Theologically these Bible-believing Christians have a lot in common with liberals." Todd's article is: http://www.issuesetc.org/resource/archives/wilken3.htm Eric The problems being discussed in this post are also highlighted by Todd Wilken.

He states, “Many Christians today think of themselves as conservative. They are pro-life, pro-family. They listen to Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity. They watch FOX News. They vote traditional values. But can you be politically, socially and morally conservative without being theologically conservative? Oh, yes you can.” Wilken further states, “You see, many Christians think of themselves as conservative Christians. But they have confused cultural conservatism with theological conservatism. Theologically these Bible-believing Christians have a lot in common with liberals.”

Todd’s article is:

http://www.issuesetc.org/resource/archives/wilken3.htm

Eric

]]> By: Eric http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/post-evangelicals-and-the-path-of-catholic-spirituality/comment-page-1#comment-130499 Eric Wed, 12 Sep 2007 14:27:50 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/post-evangelicals-and-the-path-of-catholic-spirituality#comment-130499 Great post! Here is a great article written by Dr. Gene Veith about this issue: http://www.confessionallutherans.org/papers/touchgev.html In Christ, Eric www.wittenbergtrail.com Great post! Here is a great article written by Dr. Gene Veith about this issue:

http://www.confessionallutherans.org/papers/touchgev.html

In Christ,

Eric
http://www.wittenbergtrail.com

]]> By: Heisthatheis http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/post-evangelicals-and-the-path-of-catholic-spirituality/comment-page-1#comment-130354 Heisthatheis Tue, 11 Sep 2007 21:15:23 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/post-evangelicals-and-the-path-of-catholic-spirituality#comment-130354 "Your vain traditions make void the word of God" both catholic and protestant “Your vain traditions make void the word of God”
both catholic and protestant

]]> By: Chad Winters http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/post-evangelicals-and-the-path-of-catholic-spirituality/comment-page-1#comment-129965 Chad Winters Mon, 10 Sep 2007 14:28:24 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/post-evangelicals-and-the-path-of-catholic-spirituality#comment-129965 chris: I agree it interesting. I did find this....http://gigibeads.net/prayerbeads/prayers/prayers1.html chris: I agree it interesting. I did find this….http://gigibeads.net/prayerbeads/prayers/prayers1.html

]]> By: Chris Stiles http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/post-evangelicals-and-the-path-of-catholic-spirituality/comment-page-1#comment-129832 Chris Stiles Sun, 09 Sep 2007 23:37:15 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/post-evangelicals-and-the-path-of-catholic-spirituality#comment-129832 If you ever do an updated version the "Imonk Devotional Time" posts, I'd be interested to know how you use an Anglican Rosary. If you ever do an updated version the “Imonk Devotional Time” posts, I’d be interested to know how you use an Anglican Rosary.

]]> By: Matt P. http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/post-evangelicals-and-the-path-of-catholic-spirituality/comment-page-1#comment-128532 Matt P. Tue, 04 Sep 2007 19:49:34 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/post-evangelicals-and-the-path-of-catholic-spirituality#comment-128532 I think part of the problem is this. No one knowingly believes a falsehood. So when we look at the Baptists, the Catholics, the Methodists, the Brethren, and we see bad doctrine, we only see things that disagree with us. It takes a lot of work to get to the point where we say, "I am wrong on something, even if I don't know what it is yet." I think that's where the animosity comes into denominational debate--we see our own viewpoint as 100% correct (because no one wants to believe heresy), with maybe a token nod to "I'd change if I were wrong." That also makes it hard to find a church--where are you going to find a sizable group of people who believe the same things you do? You either have to separate yourself from all but a tiny minority in the name of orthodoxy, or you have to prioritize your beliefs. I've gotten to the point lately where my "What I Believe and Can't Budge On" list is tiny; most doctrines, from my viewpoint, just really don't matter enough to warrant separation. On the other hand, coming from a "independent, fundamental, King-James-(AV-1611 is optional here unless you're really spiritual)-Bible-believing Baptist" background, we tend to lump everybody in with their entire denomination. I.e., all Catholics/Lutherans/Methodists/non-Baptists are lost because they believe X instead of Y. Southern Baptists are almost lost, because they're in an organization; but God might have mercy on a few every so often (but only because we can't change His mind on that). The entire viewpoint becomes one of arrogance, rather than one of humility. After all, when one has God's perfect, inerrant, inspired Word, preserved in the English language, how can we go wrong? /sarcasm The difficulty comes in discussing one's life with one's fellow church members without mentioning books, authors, or ideas which would result in anything from isolation to church discipline. Why can't we admit we don't have all the answers? I think part of the problem is this. No one knowingly believes a falsehood. So when we look at the Baptists, the Catholics, the Methodists, the Brethren, and we see bad doctrine, we only see things that disagree with us. It takes a lot of work to get to the point where we say, “I am wrong on something, even if I don’t know what it is yet.” I think that’s where the animosity comes into denominational debate–we see our own viewpoint as 100% correct (because no one wants to believe heresy), with maybe a token nod to “I’d change if I were wrong.”

That also makes it hard to find a church–where are you going to find a sizable group of people who believe the same things you do? You either have to separate yourself from all but a tiny minority in the name of orthodoxy, or you have to prioritize your beliefs. I’ve gotten to the point lately where my “What I Believe and Can’t Budge On” list is tiny; most doctrines, from my viewpoint, just really don’t matter enough to warrant separation.

On the other hand, coming from a “independent, fundamental, King-James-(AV-1611 is optional here unless you’re really spiritual)-Bible-believing Baptist” background, we tend to lump everybody in with their entire denomination. I.e., all Catholics/Lutherans/Methodists/non-Baptists are lost because they believe X instead of Y. Southern Baptists are almost lost, because they’re in an organization; but God might have mercy on a few every so often (but only because we can’t change His mind on that). The entire viewpoint becomes one of arrogance, rather than one of humility. After all, when one has God’s perfect, inerrant, inspired Word, preserved in the English language, how can we go wrong? /sarcasm

The difficulty comes in discussing one’s life with one’s fellow church members without mentioning books, authors, or ideas which would result in anything from isolation to church discipline. Why can’t we admit we don’t have all the answers?

]]> By: Dumb Ox http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/post-evangelicals-and-the-path-of-catholic-spirituality/comment-page-1#comment-128375 Dumb Ox Tue, 04 Sep 2007 05:37:06 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/post-evangelicals-and-the-path-of-catholic-spirituality#comment-128375 Michael: My reference to Lutherans was strictly historical; I guess there has been enough sectarian egotism going around lately for you to assume diffently. The things you find detestable in modern evangelicalism would have been equally detestable to the reformers - Calvin and Luther alike. Without first restoring the gospel message as they did - and more than just a bait-and-switch to get "sinners" through the church door - any restoration of ancient practices will result in yet another set of spiritual gimmics. I would hate to see the Eucharist sold as a means of personal health and prosperity rather than a means of God's grace. The Rosary has always been a meditation on the gospel message, but I have already seen it sold as a means of personal success - similar to abuses of the past. I just lament that the term "evangelical" has been dragged into the mud of American pseudo-spiritualism. Michael:

My reference to Lutherans was strictly historical; I guess there has been enough sectarian egotism going around lately for you to assume diffently. The things you find detestable in modern evangelicalism would have been equally detestable to the reformers – Calvin and Luther alike. Without first restoring the gospel message as they did – and more than just a bait-and-switch to get “sinners” through the church door – any restoration of ancient practices will result in yet another set of spiritual gimmics. I would hate to see the Eucharist sold as a means of personal health and prosperity rather than a means of God’s grace. The Rosary has always been a meditation on the gospel message, but I have already seen it sold as a means of personal success – similar to abuses of the past. I just lament that the term “evangelical” has been dragged into the mud of American pseudo-spiritualism.

]]> By: Scott http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/post-evangelicals-and-the-path-of-catholic-spirituality/comment-page-1#comment-128328 Scott Tue, 04 Sep 2007 01:36:51 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/post-evangelicals-and-the-path-of-catholic-spirituality#comment-128328 It's important to get beyond redemption and move toward sanctification. Admittedly, it is one step forward and two steps back much of the time. But I believe salvation requires both. Spiritual formation, discipleship are vital. Once I am "saved," then what? I think our Christian traditions can be mutually enriching. As a Catholic, I find many evangelical writers very satisfying: Richard Foster, Philip Yancy, and possibly Cron, we'll see. I also find Susan Howatch's Church of England novels extremely enriching as well. Jenny is right in pointing out that it is not a Catholic understanding of the Eucharist to believe that we have Jesus in a box. At the very least, how can he be in a box at Our Lady of Perpetual Responsibility AND St. Ralph's at the same time? That should give anybody some pause. Nonetheless, I can see how non-Catholics might get that idea. It’s important to get beyond redemption and move toward sanctification. Admittedly, it is one step forward and two steps back much of the time. But I believe salvation requires both. Spiritual formation, discipleship are vital. Once I am “saved,” then what? I think our Christian traditions can be mutually enriching. As a Catholic, I find many evangelical writers very satisfying: Richard Foster, Philip Yancy, and possibly Cron, we’ll see. I also find Susan Howatch’s Church of England novels extremely enriching as well.

Jenny is right in pointing out that it is not a Catholic understanding of the Eucharist to believe that we have Jesus in a box. At the very least, how can he be in a box at Our Lady of Perpetual Responsibility AND St. Ralph’s at the same time? That should give anybody some pause. Nonetheless, I can see how non-Catholics might get that idea.

]]> By: Jenny Bluett http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/post-evangelicals-and-the-path-of-catholic-spirituality/comment-page-1#comment-128318 Jenny Bluett Tue, 04 Sep 2007 01:01:31 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/post-evangelicals-and-the-path-of-catholic-spirituality#comment-128318 brain fart... Bethlehem. brain fart… Bethlehem.

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