Comments on: Open Thread: Where does the Bible say Satan wants people to go to hell?

By: John

John — Sun, 28 Jun 2009 08:06:58 +0000

Demonology is just one of the subjects of Biblical curiosity that have little actual substance and a lot of supposition.

Directly from the Bible (Young’s Literal Translation), here are some facts:

1.Demon or Demons do NOT refer to THE devil or Satan except for 2 times; and, writes “a” devil and just infers to THE Diabolos.
2.Demon is mentioned 18 times
3.Demons are mentioned 41 times
4.Devil always referred to THE devil, the Diabolos and is mentioned 33 times.
5.Devils(Satans army, fallen angels) are mentioned 48 times.
5.b Satan is mentioned 49 times: 34 in the New and 15 in the old.

So,….
6.) Satan cannot do what he wants to do. He must have the permission of God to molest the children of God, His regenerated, born again, believer in Jesus Messiah, children. Much of this comes from Job, however the principles are shown throughout the scripture.
7.Now the unregenerated or those who say they are saved, but not, are free game to Satan and his demons. This is where demonic activity occurs from and in. From false religions like the “warm and fuzzy” New Age or Eckankar to murderous cults, Satan can freely hold in bondage and attract those who refuse the truth of Jesus; those who are “self” oriented.
8.Satan does not wear red pajamas, carry a pitch fork and have a pointed tail or horns.
9.Supposedly he cannot know what we think, but many times I have wondered about that and have done a lot of study to find out were it says that. I don’t think he can, but so far, I don’t have evidence to that fact.
10.One third the population of the Angels in Heaven fell to Pride and allegiance to Satan. WOW, that could be billions times billions. The questions is, we don’t know, can’t know and any answer would only be supposition. So, there are 5.49Quadrillion square ft. of surface area, both sea and dry land, on planet earth. Thats 61Trillion Sq.Yrds. There’s only 30% land area out of the 61Trillion Sq Yrds., So that means there’s 183Billion Sq yrds of land area on planet earth.
11.A sq. Yrd. is an easy arms length in either direction. If you can believe there is 549 Billion Angels in Heaven, then 183Billion were cast down upon. That a lot of demons all around. When regenerates deny access to certain areas, the demons must squeeze into smaller areas. It could be, but nothing with evidence, that demons can change their size. But needless to say, there are a lot of demons on earth.
12. They only tempt people, regenerated or not. They can’t make us do anything we don’t inherently want to do.

The deeds of the evil one(s) are through unregenerated and at time regenerated people, or making happen supernatural events through idols.

They can inflict people with many diseases and mental afflictions, cause supernatural strength in chained up maniacs.

Therefore, demons throughout the ages have been glorified by writings that tell of exploits by made up stories….. the whole gambit. Emperor Constatines State religion called the Roman Universal Church made up all sorts of stories and down right lies about devils and demons. Stick to the Bible and leave all the other stuff by the wayside.

By: Patrick Lynch

Patrick Lynch — Tue, 04 Nov 2008 02:35:10 +0000

Thanks for all your replies, guys. sal, your link is fascinating. I suggest everybody read it. Making sense of Jewish views on the subject give ours some context, to be sure. When I’m a little wiser, this will be an interesting study topic to return to.

By: sal

sal — Tue, 04 Nov 2008 01:08:49 +0000

This might be of interest to Patrick Lynch and others as it explains at least one Jewish view of Satan as a rabbi interprets the old testament.
http://www.outreachjudaism.org/satan.html
I agree with Patrick that the idea of demons lurking everywhere does not help me in my Christian walk. We have enough evil inclinations without outside temptations, but it’s oh so easy to blame — something, someone, anyone! “The snake made me do it,” “she made me do it,” “Satan made me do it!”

By: Clavem Abyssi

Clavem Abyssi — Mon, 03 Nov 2008 19:46:29 +0000

Patrick:
I’m not overly worried about devils. I’m like St. Paul in his 2nd letter to the Corinthians, who complained about a thorn in his side, a devil. As for myself, I rejoice in these troubles and in my weaknesses and scars. All are my own fault, anyways (but these too are a cause for joy). Someone said we ought to laugh at the devil and this is very true, because the more he troubles us, yes, the more he succeeds at hurting us (so long as we do not despair), the more glory there is for our Saviour whose power is made perfect in our weakness. It really consoles me to think of how good He will look when He cleanses me of these things. Were sin not evil in itself, I would wish to be an even greater sinner, if only the name of Jesus be magnified yet more.

By: Petra

Petra — Mon, 03 Nov 2008 18:48:02 +0000

Patrick,

I think we should be well aware that demons do exist, but we should not be afraid, because God is much more powerful!

Demons can’t just like that possess us without anyone noticing! As far as I have read up on this, possession is a very-very rare state that normally has clear signs like hysterical hatred of crosses and crucifixes, pain when getting in touch with holy water, talking in ancient languages like Aramaeic without having learned it, corporal powers that are far above normal etc. Not all these symptoms occur in all cases, but normally there are clear signs that something is the matter. In the Catholic Church, ritual exorcisms are carried out only very rarely, with permission of the local bishop, and after careful medical and psychiatric investigation.

But all this shouldn’t concern you, as I am sure you’re ok. You know, I guess the devil likes “possession hysteria” and stuff like that because he likes to get attention…. Just laugh at him! If you think you can’t, read funny stuff about him like the Temptation narratives, where the devil is so stupid he offers the world to Jesus, if he would fall down before him and adore him – to Jesus, God the Son, by Whom all things were created, Who is the King of Kings of Heaven and Earth!

Patrick, you’re a temple of the Holy Spirit, and Jesus Christ loves you! He is the one you should be thinking about! And whenever you feel fear of the devil or of possession, just ask Christ into your heart – you know that all devils flee before him. You know: “Perfect love casteth out fear”…

By: Patrick Lynch

Patrick Lynch — Sun, 02 Nov 2008 04:27:27 +0000

Jeremiah, thanks. Can’t turn down a thoughtful book recommend. And when you put it that way, I suppose demanding that demons all lie down and become myths for me is asking too much. I’m forever wary of the constant demon-possession rumors of Christianity’s hysterical frontier of churches, but even finding a sensible alternative – how do you evangelize THAT? I’d love to know how you convince someone that demons are only -almost- everywhere…

By: Jeremiah Lawson

Jeremiah Lawson — Sun, 02 Nov 2008 02:46:02 +0000

Patrick, there’s a few books about the devil by Russell I’ve alluded to earlier if the topic interests you. He’s a Catholic scholar whose works are considered standard historical overviews of Christian and Jewish teaching and how it developed.

Within Protestantism Susan Garrett has written a couple of books I have found useful, The Demise of the Devil in the writings of Luke, and the Temptation of Jesus in the Gospel of Mark. She and Russell do a good job of explaining how part of the challenge of interpreting biblical passages about demons and the devil comes from the tacit acceptance of intertestamental literature and how Christians can approach that.

A lot of the trouble in this field is that it is a secondary subject to Jesus and as Russell dryly noted, the only real difference between Catholics and Protestants during the Reformation era was that they disagreed on who the Antichrist was (either the Pope or Luther or some other Protestant depending on who you talked to!).

While it is certainly possible for demons to both exist and make suggestions James writes that our own evil desires spur us on. Most of us don’t need demonic help to be at our worst. Thanks to the twin paths of rationalism and fundamentalism people tend to reflexively go one way or the other. If Christians profess belief in God at all then denying the possibility of the existence of the devil or the relevance of the devil presents problems. As Russell put it, the Christian faith represents a form of modified dualism in terms of its moral universe, which has been found necessary so that God Himself is not considered the author of evil, a necessity in a purely monistic understanding of how morality may exist in the universe.

That gets you back to Baudilair (sic) and “if there is a God he is the devil” stuff or toward pantheism. So for Christians we cannot make light of the existence of the devil if we build our faith on a man rising from the dead as has been said about Jesus for years. After all, the only thing that would be more absurd to assert than the existence of a devil is that Jesus is Lord and Savior and has defeated the devil that some aren’t sure exists.

By: Patrick Lynch

Patrick Lynch — Sat, 01 Nov 2008 22:52:58 +0000

Dillard, none of what you said made any sense to me. I looked up your verses and read your words a couple times, and I didn’t make the same connections you did.

I get the feeling I’m not the only one here, either.

You did mention something I could respond to, though. If Christians have been teaching each other error, and your answer about demons seems like an exegetical invention – and you imply that the reason most people don’t see it your way is because Satan can teach Christians about the nature of God..

..couldn’t they say the same thing about your view?

I’m not attacking it exactly, I just don’t know how these beliefs work for you.

By: Dillard Munsell

Dillard Munsell — Sat, 01 Nov 2008 21:25:09 +0000

There is no place in the bible that says Satan wants any one to go to hell. You must know what hell is first. It is not a lake of fire. It is the place called the grave. There is another enemy worse than Satan and the Devil, its called “Death”. Its the last enemy that God will destory.
“He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.” Revelation 2:11
“Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power.” Revelation 20:6 In his efforts to misrepresent the character of God to the human race, Satan has succeeded to a startling extent. Introduced into the minds of men and women by the “father of lies”, many of the misconceptions about God have become encased in human philosophy and passed on from generation to generation. They have penetrated all levels of human life, and have often been fostered even by the “Christian Church”. Two of these false theories have had an especially strong hold on the human imagination. One is the idea that God is a god of anger and wrath, a cruel tyrant who has no reservations about subjecting His creatures to an eternally burning hell for failure to give perfect obedience to His arbitrary commands. But this is not the character of God.
Here is what happens to Hell and Death ?
There will be a day of judgement for those who continue in rebellion against the principles of God’s government. And there will be a punishment as a result of that judgement. The Bible calls that punishment the “Second Death.”
“And DEATH” and “HELL” were cast into “THE LAKE OF FIRE”. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the BOOK OF LIFE was cast into the lake of fire.” Revelation 20:14,15.
1 Corinthians 15:25-27 25 For he must reign, TILL he hath put ALL ENEMIES under his feet. 26 The LAST enemy that shall be destroyed is DEATH. 27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
I think this should be simple to see what the bible says about the last enemy and Satan and the Devil. (For he hath put all things under his feet.) Also “DEATH”
Dillard Munsell dillmunsell@yahoo.com

By: Jeremiah Lawson

Jeremiah Lawson — Sat, 01 Nov 2008 20:22:54 +0000

Joe, that’s because a lot of what Christians accept about the devil is not directly, exegetically evident. The light-bearer and lucifer passages now refer to Satan but they originally had a more political and “earthly” referent. Per my earlier posts, there was a LOT Of intertestamental literature that dealt with demonology and diabology that Jesus and the apostles take up in the NT books.