Open Thread: The De-Churching of America: What do YOU Think?
November 17, 2008 by iMonk
I’m reading some books on the de-churching of America, i.e. the drop in church attendance over the last 50 years.
Research being what it is, I know that anything can be proven, but I have my own research tool: the IM readership.
Without going into great detail, what have you seen in your own extended family? Do more or less people participate in church now than in the past? What is your personal take on the de-churching of America?
From where you live, can you see the emergence of a post-evangelical (Or Catholic or Mainline) or post-Christian culture?
For the Things That Make You Go “I wish I were a different person” file:
I checked out a Catholic Singles site recently (disclaimer: I’m a total religious social network voyeur, not [just] a nerd), and on this site they give you this questionnaire wherein you reply with Yes or No to “Do you agree with the Church’s teaching?” Then they would list various things like Priestly orders, Communion, etc.
(This, by the way, is totally how Catholicism is more like an ethnicity than a religion.)
Also listed are Contraception, Premarital sex, and Abortion – to which you can say Yes, I agree with the church, or basically No, I’ll put out.
Fully half of the (attractive) girls I checked out answered No (and No means Yes) to contraception and premarital sex.
Part of me (guess which part) is screaming “this is GREAT NEWS!!”, and another part of me is screaming “This is TYPICAL.”
If I were anybody else, I’d be able to say to myself, ‘it doesn’t matter what she believes – it’s what you do that counts’. But I know better.
=(
My husband and I were raised in the same evangelical church by parents who are now in their 50’s (all of whom converted to evangelicalism in the late 70’s after being raised in Catholocism).
Between the two families there are six adult children aged 22-28 (two men and four women including my husband and myself). All of us attended evangelical schools elementary through college and are well-taught in terms of doctrine and belief. All have college degrees and work professional jobs.
Two have left the faith, do not attend church at all and if pressed would classify themselves as cynical/questioning/agnostic – one male and one female.
Two attend church regularly and are very involved in the vein of their parents (though their doctrine is post-evangelical and more liberal than what they were raised with) – both females.
Two do not attend church but believe in God and some/most tenets of Christianity. I would probably call them lapsed evangelicals and I give it a 50% chance on whether they will return to the church in the next five years (I think one will return and one won’t) – one male one female.
Between our families we bear out the statistics that of evangelical children raised in the church, 33% will go on to attend as adults. Out of six children who received roughly the same education and training and modeling in Christian faith, only two are now carrying that on in their own lives.
My husband and myself fall into different categories (that changed after we were married – when we married we were in the same category) and it has been a source of deep grief for the one who has remained in the church.
I am seeing the same trends in my own family and in the extended families of many of my congregants. Jesus did predict that the love of many would grow cold. We are living in a post-constantinian culture and the church in general has not learned to adapt to this new fact. The media, secular education (I am a former public school teacher)our consumer culture, even democracy undermine rather then reinforce our faith in God. So far this seems to be killing the church. I do believe that we will adapt and that the church can become even more vital in a post-constantinan world. I guess that makes me an optimist.
Rachel states that “Between our families we bear out the statistics that of evangelical children raised in the church, 33% will go on to attend as adults.”
Where does that number come from? If it were true, wouldn’t attendance be a mere shell of what it was 20 or 30 years ago? Leavers are being replaced almost as fast as they leave (yes there are exceptions to this rule all over the place), but surely not at the rate that Rachel’s numbers would suggest.
According to the link provided by Chris E. Ten percent of singles attend church but forty-four percent of those who are married. Could it be that we have a leaving, and then subsequent rejoining when maturity (and children) come along?
This would fit with what I have seen in a number of different situations.
Both my parents are actively involved in the local Nazarene congregation, though they don’t much care for the church itself. They mainly go to help support my sister, who is a student at Point Loma Nazarene University. She herself is very actively pursuing the Christian faith at school. I myself go to Mass at least once a week.
On my father’s side, my grandparents were practicing though indifferent Presbyterians. My dad and both of his brothers went apostate into agnosticism/atheism, though my oldest uncle and father had Evangelical conversion experiences later in life. My uncle who remains non-practicing is married to his second wife, who is an active Christian, his son practices nothing, and his daughter is an observant Reformed Jew. Of my oldest uncle’s children, two are churchless though not necessarily unbelievers, and one is an active Catholic. One of the unchurched cousins is married to a devout Catholic.
On my mother’s side, my grandparents were extremely devout Catholics, my grandfather remaining so till his death and my grandmother is still active. Of their 8 children, two are devout Protestants (including my mother), one is a practicing Catholic (though her kids aren’t), and the rest are indifferently Catholic. Of the 18 or so cousins, one and his wife are college ministers with navigators, and the rest are pretty indifferent to religion.
The observation about Catholic vs. Protestant youth activity seems true from where I sit on the ground. Among Evangelicals, older folk are trying to preserve traditional ritual from the youth, whereas with Catholics it’s the other way around. I do live in a very Catholic, urban area so the Church is exceptionally strong around me. The parish I attend is small and conservative, but is strong. The children raised there are well catechized, and prone to stay in the Church. The RCIA class I’m in has 12 people: 1 non-Christian preparing for Baptism, myself and another Protestant preparing to enter full communion, and 9 Baptized Catholics seeking to receive confirmation and participate more fully in the sacramental life of the Church. From what I can see, the future of the Church is as healthy as it’s ever been, so take heart.
Pax et bonum,
Sam Urfer
I was raised as rural Western Methodist from a long line of Methodists on both sides. In my parents’ generation, folks started branching out, including Pentecostal and Divine Science, but all were still active church-goers.
Our generation (Boomers) was where the de-churching started. I’m the only one of 5 siblings that has a personal faith which began in college, passed into and through Evangelicalism in a variety of forms to where I can take or leave “church” membership and attendance, though I’m passionately committed to The Church, as my wife and I are in “full-time” cross-cultural service. Among my cousins, all raised in church, about half are committed evangelicals or pentecostals, and the other half are anywhere from pagan to agnostic to antagonistic toward church and Christianity.
Our adult kids are passionate Jesus followers and committed evangelical church members. Two teens at home still, but it’s too soon to tell.
My wife is from rural Midwestern German Catholic stock, and her parents’ generation were all faithful Catholics. My wife came to an evangelical faith in Christ in college. Her cousins all stayed in the church as long as they remained in their rural community, but those who moved away also fell away for the most part. In her immediate family, herself excepted, the females seemed to remain Catholic, whereas the males at least drift if not turn angrily away.
Like was mentioned by an earlier commentator, with the urbanization of our generation, and even more so, our children’s generation, the general trend has been away from attendance in, identification with, and commitment to traditional church. So with some exceptions, the de-churching process is increasing with each generation. In my own case, I’m growing much more in a Kingdom orientation, with less interest in a denomination, or a specific local fellowship as a member. Post-evangelical describes it pretty well.
IMHO 18th and 19th century revivalism transformed entire communities, including those of my Methodist ancestors. The essence of the Gospel had been lost by the time it reach my generation, and only those of us who had conversion experiences reclaimed it. Most of the rest lost all heart for and connection with the traditions they were raised with. But those of us who became evangelical were not a part of a culture- and community-transforming movement like was experienced by earlier generations. Instead, we created a subculture with our own books, music, movies, youth activities, etc. And we lost touch with the culture as a whole, which has written us off as uncompassionate and irrelevant.
Sad…
“What have you seen in your own extended family? Do more or less people participate in church now than in the past? What is your personal take on the de-churching of America?”
My husband and I were both raised in semi-rural Ref. Church in America churches. He was saved as a child…I was after we were married. We left the RCA to join a Bible Church plant in a nearby city and then moved on to help plant 2 more Bible churchs…The current one (10 years old) is more unconventional. It’s elder-led, meets in rented school, not program-dominated.
Our 3 adult children and their families are all involved in local churches. One daughter & family have rejoined us after 6 years as missionaries. One worships with her family at the nearby “relevant” seeker-sensitive church plant. Our son and his wife and kids have gone back to the first Bible church we helped plant over 30 years ago.
My husband’s siblings (brother & sister) and their spouses are involved in local RCA churchs, but both have belonged to a number of various evangelical and charismatic churches in the past.
My siblings (3 brothers and a sister) are mostly non-church-goers. One brother is loosely affiliated with the Methodist church. Two of his 3 kids have children now, and both have joined the UCC. One daughter (single mom) hopes to send her son to a Christian school.
We live in an area of the Midwest that is culturally conservative. That is being challenged, though, and that has affected the church. I think that my generation (60+) may attend from force of habit. The next generation is becoming afraid for the future of their own children. That may be one of the reasons they are returning.
I hope they don’t become disillusioned by what they find.
Hi Internet Monk!
I’m new to your blog and I’m really enjoying it. I heard about this through Steve Brown Etc.
In response to your question, my grandparents raised my mother’s family in a strong church, and all four of them went on to have an active presence in their churches. Now their four children, so far, are regular attenders of church.
Though that is a positive story, my general impression, of course, is that church attendance, and a Biblical worldview, has dropped off dramatically. But I agree with you that absolutely anything can be proven, in fact, I didn’t even write these words, and I can prove it
All of my siblings, in my family of six kids, left the Catholic Church – some of us for many years. All but one has returned – two to celibate religious life. Our offspring are following in our footsteps: skeptical, leaving and some coming back. Time will tell. Most of my cousins still go to church and talk about their faith.
In my rural poor community, the CC is slowly growing, the small bible churches pop up and die down 15 years later, the Mormons are slowly growing, the Presbyterians are gasping, and the Assembly of God and Baptists are definitely growing.
My kids want nothing to do with church. And yet somewhere they have been taught that God knows their heart and loves them and He is not mad at them and they can do whatever they want without any consequence (all in one long , run-on sentence like that).
Deconstruction? Post-modernism? The fastest growing churchs in our area have secular songs in each worship service, have provocative messages about sex with a bed on the stage, have worship complete with mirror disco balls and psychadelic lights. We visited one where the last song was a Beach Boys song and beach balls flew out from the back of the auditorium (scaring the Bee-Jesus out of us) and were batted around by the congregation while they whooped and hollered.
Joe M: All the Baptists are growing? Even the small, older rural churches?
I hope you read “Quitting Church” by Julia Duin, Spence! Great book about why people quit church.
Interesting question. On both sides of my family strong church going by grandparents. My father’s family is Methodist,but some are Lutherns or ECUSA with a great-great grandfather a minister. But his father did not go to church (too busy working) but my father went to the local Methodist Church till he became to hard to go out at 90.
My mother’s family was Catholic, my grandparents never missing church. My mother was fairly active in the Catholic Church till her death. They have four grown children, two go to Mass most Sundays and are somewhat active, one only goes to church on Easter and Christmas sometimes, and the middle adult child last went to church for a fire department memorial service. Most of my Catholic cousins are either nonchurch going Catholics or Protestants. My Protestant cousins are more likely to be active in either AOG or Methodist churches. But one married a Catholic who goes to RC church with her Catholic Revert Gramdmother-in-Law.
The divide seems to be pre WWII generation active, Baby boomers go to church when they have chidren and the post baby boomers going only only when they marry and have childen as adults. And they do not go back always to the church they were taken to as children. Also more chuch going with my family in Maryland or Virginia than in New York or New England.
In the North east of Pa. The SBC churches are holding there own and growing in number. There are a few new plants doing OK and some 20 to 30 year old works staying strong. 2 Nazarene churches are new and growing, a couple older Baptist works died, but there are some old works with new blood doing real well. Assembly of God is growing. The Methodists Presbyterian, RCC, are really taking a hit on attendance, but the membership is high as people are born into them, it is a family thing I guess.
Fastest growing is Latter Day, but that might be a whole new thread.
Hmmm, no one in my immediate family goes to church except me. Also, only one of my local friends does. I have several out of town that do but… I am 36 and my generation doesn’t seem to have much use for church, or any definite concept of God for that matter, and I don’t see those younger than me warming up to it.
Why? Any number of reasons. We preach more on drinking and smoking and what to wear than sin and repentance. We cling to 1950’s rural America and slap the “God Approved” label on it…rendering all other cultures/worship styles/dress codes as suspect. Honestly, some people view black churches and their exuberant worship as being right on the edge of heresy and too emotionally driven. We’ve been hypocrites for 50 years. Railing against perverts and such while allowing adultery to go on. Decrying the evils of gambling while preaching that if you insert enough money into the God-slot machine you’ll hit the jackpot. When a teenage girl does get pregnant out of wedlock, for years we simply drove her off. Only in the last 20 years has the church en masse started to fix that.
How many kids have grown up into apostate adults because they saw all to clearly that their parents faith stopped at the church house door only to be picked up on the way back in next Sunday?
Why should I get up on one of my two days off to come hear self-help pablum, political diatribes, Culture Warrior speeches that put more faith in Washington than in the Almighty God with a bunch of people who, outside of church, never bother to talk to me, let alone go out to dinner or a movie with me? This is what people on the outside see…most times.
On the other end of the spectrum are the churches that wouldn’t call sin sin if Jesus was standing behind the preacher pointing at people. Calling homosexuality sin is proper as long as we are also willing to call what that couple in the youth group does sin too.
Just my 2 cents worth.
As an aside, try finding a single woman in her 30’s without four kids and a divorce in any church now days. Trust me I’ve tried.
DD
My maternal Catholic grandparents are the only ones on my side of the family that still attend church regularly.
Most of the next generation (My parents, aunts, uncles, etc,) used to attend church regularly, but stopped. They basically moved into a type of non-church attending “cafeteria Christianity.” I seem to notice this with a lot with baby boomers in my area.
My generation (20-30) (brother, cousins, friends etc), pretty much grew up without attending any church. Usually, the only time my generation is in a church is when the grandparents come into town, Christmas, weddings and funerals.
Those from my generation that have become church attending are usually on their second or third church/denomination. I think a post evangelical church would appeal to them, but finding one is the problem.
Slightly more of my extended family go to church now than before. Neither of my parents’ families were churchgoers, and neither was I growing up. I converted at 30 and my then future wife at 38. We go. One of her sisters’ families has started going just a few years ago. Her family went when they were young, but now don’t. An aunt of mine is now a flaming Baptist and married within her church.
I have mixed feelings about the de-churching of America. Growing up in the suburbs in the 60’s and 70’s, I knew many churchgoing families. I don’t remember any of them claiming to be Christians, but instead Baptists, Lutherans, Catholics, etc. It seemed to be exclusively a cultural phenomena. The dead religion of middle class American moralism. So, in one way, I see it as no big loss. In another, there isn’t even an empty shell of religion acting as salt and light anymore. It’s about a wash.
From where I sit, I don’t see the emergence of anything much different, or the emergence of anything at all.
Yeah the Catholic Church is great at loosing members but it also great at gaining them. In the United States at least I can see steady growth of Catholicism now to which extent it will grow will depend on the Bishops. If they decide to actualy teach what they are suppose to (something they havent done in the last 20 years) then the growth may be even bigger than most expect.
As far as other Christians I would say that the SBC will continue to grow, unfortunatly so will the mormons, Evangelicalism is the odd duck. They seem to grow in certain places but very much centered in one spot rather than a sweeping movement. That might be due to their independent nature or their buffet style theology.
As far as the denominations in decline, I would say mainline Protestants are hitting that 500 year wall right at this point. Prebetyrians, Lutherans, and specialy Episcopelians (though realy at this point they resemble a pseudo-paganims more than Christianity)
Eclectic Christian, you said “leavers are being replaced almost as fast as they leave”.
This is definitely true in certain demographics, except that these “new converts” are overwhelmingly drawn from the husks of mainline denominations, whose membership have fallen apart completely.
However, many Evangelical denominations are still posting slow growth. Evangelical churches tend to do a pretty poor job of convincing their kids that Jesus is real.
Unrealistic Jesus: a side effect of Christianity.
My parents stopped going when my father had worsening symptoms of Multiple Sclerosis – mainly he had to go to the restroom frequently and was told that he was being a distraction by several members of the congregation. This was about 15 years ago.
My immediate family (me, wife, 2 kids) stopped going for a few reasons (we consider ourselves non-denominational Christian):
Our daughter was diagnosed with autism and there are no acceptable forms of childcare for special needs children available to us. A babysitter is not in our budget every week. Some members have treated us like ministry projects once learning of this fact instead of getting to know us, which leads me the next reason.
Members, overall, are not genuine anymore… the creepy cheesy grin that seems to be everywhere; when you are greeted with at the door, when you’re asked to stand up and greet your neighbor, in the lobby when you are between services, and at small groups when you find yourself to be the only person sharing true feelings/hardships. Nobody is going to feel welcome in a group of people who seem to be pained by mustering up the ability to look you in the eye and shake your hand because it is what the pastor asked them to do.
Lack of discipleship… there are a few church leaders out there that can really dig deep and teach. Most sermons are available on the internet in pre-arranged powerpoint presentations and that comes across in the delivery. Once someone gets “saved” and says the sinner’s prayer, there are a few pats on the back for the affected person and attention shifts to the “unreached.” These hearts are ready for molding, and people who are spiritually mature need to disciple these people… otherwise they are being set up for failure without any knowledge or education about where to go from there.
Giovanni: You see evangelistic growth in the American RCC? Actual conversions of non-Christians into the RCC?
Where?
I’m not talking icking up reverts, Hispanics of Protestants swimming the Tiber. I mean actual conversions replacing the millions of drop outs.
Patrick Lynch
“For these reasons, I’m pretty sure Catholicism is going to decline precipitously in the US in the next 20 years.”
Actually the demographics indicate it will become a faith comprised of mostly Hispanics. At least in the USA.
Yes – and right now those Hispanics are probably going to a different set of Catholic churches to the majority of the Catholic commentators on here.
This is, of course, part of Rodney Stark’s point. There were always some social groupings who were churched in the past – equally there were some who weren’t at all (often newer immigrants or the poor who felt that ‘church is not for the likes of us’). How many chinese-americans do you think attended church during the 50s?
“Without going into great detail, what have you seen in your own extended family?”
Skimming the surface would take a book or two so I’ll skip this part except to say it ranges from church founder to overseas missionary to off the deep end to con artists.
and 
“Do more or less people participate in church now than in the past?”
In percentage terms, I certainly feel that it’s less than in my 60s childhood. Or at least the non attenders are more out in the open.
“What is your personal take on the de-churching of America?”
In a series of items that interact.
- It’s now OK to not go to church. In the past this was a problem in most areas of the country not NYC and LA. The peer pressure just isn’t there anymore.
- Churches are turning in to social clubs with a message. Sometimes the Gospel but still social clubs. It’s easier to change social clubs than to change a faith club.
- AIG and similar items. Adherents to this train of thought basically “run out of town” folks, especially late teen and college kids, who want to go into science. This leads to a general perception that church is for folks without a brain. (If you want to yell at me over this there’s a long series of comments in an iMonk blog from last week about just this.)
- Less need for church as a social gathering place. SBC churches Wednesday nights existed for a variety of reasons. Not the least of these to allow friends to get together on a regular “unplanned” basis. The 60s and onward spawned technology that made these social gatherings easier in other ways. More cars per family, cell phones, TV (especially cable), and now the Internet.
- Affluence. Less people feel a need for the church. In hard times people SEE the need for the Gospel more than in easy times.
- ME!!!!!!!!! It’s all about me. What’s this nonsense that to have a full life I need to sacrifice, serve others, submit (you’ve got to be kidding), etc… And what’s all this “sin” nonsense? (tongue firmly planted in cheek but sadly so)
- Evasive leadership. Church leadership where they don’t want to offend people as it might scare them off. In practice this almost ensures that when the evasions come out, folks will run out the door due to feeling duped. (See some of the above plus the previous iMonk postings dealing with “extras” you must believe to be a Christian.)
- Corporate Church. Many churches as they grow tend to become more “form over function”. I.E. the business of church becomes dominant over the function of church. Bricks over Gospel. Not deliberately but that’s just the was people are wired. A large (anything over 1000 in Sunday attendance and maybe even less) church has to have some structure to operate and make sure the water and lights stay on. The problem is many times this overtakes the Gospel. And after a while you have people attending who are there NOT to hear the Gospel but just to “do” church. And while there take in the Starbucks kiosk. And they will come and go.
- Politics. Most times I’ve seen a pastor / priest get into liberal or conservative “you must think this way to be a Christian” membership has gone down. While individual churches may gain I’m convinced based on personal interactions with dropouts that this drives folks away in general. I’m not talking making moral choices, I’m talking speaking politics from the pulpit.
- Hypocrisy. Others have mentioned it but here’s two big ones I’ve seen from about 10 years ago. SBC wanted to boycott Disney since they gave benefits to Gay partners. Lots of churches jumped on this bandwagon. But, from what I could see, they totally ignored that in many cases well over 1/2 their membership worked for companies that did the same. IBM, Cisco, any airline, etc… Then the next year the SBC wanted to boycott Disney since they had Gay days and marketed to Gay groups. Again so do IBM, Cisco, airlines, etc… Are the pastors that obtuse to just afraid to speak the truth?
And I could go on. But in general I see 2 things. Much of the general drop is in folks with the label Christian but who really didn’t believe. And much is in how we drive out kids and young adults away.
As to growing churches locally one of the fastest growing churches is a part of the Anglican Communion in America. None of the above that I can see and a total repudiation of the traditional Episcopal Church in the US and Canada. Which matches some of the above comments about the more scripturally based a church the better it survives.
With so much emphasis on the attrition rate among youth, I think it’s easy to overlook the exodus of older church members. My parents, members of the “Greatest Generation” are an example. They have been active church members there entire lives, and I owe my faith to them. But when their church moved to a boomer-centric worship style and heavy emphasis upon politics, they felt pushed out. They no longer attend church. It makes me extremely angry with the current state of evangelicalism.
I think the problem concerns churches attempting to reach demographics rather than people; numbers rather than individuals. It is dehumanizing. It is strange that the same people who champion the sanctity of human life inside the womb treat people like so many cattle outside the womb. A church which treats people like objects will treat God like one also, which turns him into a lifeless idol (loose paraphrase of Martin Buber). There are many factors associated with faltering church attendance, but evangelicals are by far their own worst problem.
Well, just about everyone in my extended family (I’m only talking first cousins, here – I don’t know about the rest) was raised in church. We all fell away for a couple of years to varying degrees (and it was in college – PARTY!) but came back. We’re all very faithful now. I’m not so sure about my husband’s family, but I know that all of his six siblings are faithful. Even through college.
Honestly, I think the fall away from church is because parents don’t pray for their kids like they should. I know that I would not be where I am today (nor would my husband) if we didn’t have mommas that prayed for us.
Also, my dad is now faithful (my parents are divorced). His mom has been praying for him for 15 years. He was on all kinds of drugs and had almost lost his mind, but has been delivered.
My extended family—
On my mom’s side, my aunts, uncle, and my aunt’s ex-husband attend church. Twenty years ago, they didn’t. So that’s good.
On my dad’s side, two aunts and an uncle attend sporadically. The rest try not to think about God very much.
My siblings all attend. Three of my cousins attend. The rest don’t. In my immediate family, we were all discipled by Mom, not our youth pastors. In my cousins’ families, they weren’t discipled at all. The three that attend: Two are kids and have to go. The other came to Jesus after he had moved out of the house.
Church attendance drops, I believe, mainly ’cause kids aren’t discipled. It’s all handed off to the overwhelmed, underpaid, and sometimes underqualified youth leaders at the church. And it’s not their job. The command to train up your children is to parents. If you never instill Christianity in them, is it any wonder they don’t stick with it?
Chris E:
“Actually the demographics indicate it will become a faith comprised of mostly Hispanics. At least in the USA.”
Yes – and right now those Hispanics are probably going to a different set of Catholic churches to the majority of the Catholic commentators on here.
The flourishing Parish I mentioned above is almost totally white upper middle class. But again, that church is the exception that proves the rule as what is making the difference is a charismatic priest who’s doing things in a different, fresh way.
Patrick Lynch
Could you elaborate on what you mean by:
“Unrealistic Jesus: a side effect of Christianity.”
Not sure that I completely understand what you mean by that.
We’re protestant.
My mom’s folks weren’t saved until their 30s or 40s but went to church until they died.
My parents went until we moved out from under the watchful eye of my grandparents. They started again when they moved back. My mom and her husband (60s) are heavily involved now, which I think is amazing considering how her previous church treated her during a family crisis AND her husband is Catholic.
My sister (36) went through a rough phase (living on the streets with her ex-drug running boyfriend), but after a divorce (to another guy) went to Bible college. The previous post you made about being involved in a church that doesn’t quite fit spoke to her deeply.
My brother (32) hasn’t gone since he was a kid.
My mom’s sis and husband (60s) are hit-and-miss Quakers. Their daughter (early 30s), who as a child insisted on being baptized, now considers herself pagan.
I don’t see my dad’s family a lot, but they’ve always been the poorest ultra-conservative, black-helicopter-watching, Jesus is comin’ in 1988-believing Christians you’ve never met.
My husband’s parents (60s) have gone to the same church for forty years because it would look bad if they quit and found one they actually liked.
My husband (42) stopped going as a teenager, then started again in his mid-twenties because he couldn’t meet a nice girl at a bar. He met me (38) (I’m so socially inept I can’t figure out how to make friends without a church), and we’ve been steady attenders throughout our marriage. Our son (7) goes because we make him, and he gets to play in the gym.
We’re military, as are many of our friends. Standard operating procedure for most of us is move, find a house, find a church, plug in quickly because we know how this church-thing works and we’re not going to be around long enough to take our time. Absolutely, the key is to find a church that is open to those who will only be there three-four years–both personally (will they befriend short-timers?) and administratively (Eg.: if deacons elections are in the Fall, but you have to be a member for a year before being nominated, but membership classes don’t end until Winter, but you have to commit to a two-year term…basically, you’re not going to have military as deacons).
But we’re also fortunate because we’re not tied to a denomination, and we can look around for the theology, worship style, and people that will be such a big part of our lives. We actually like this church-thing.
Mr. iMonk, I am willing to concede that most of the people that will be replacing the ones that drop out are going to be reverts or Protestants.
I think that the average non-christian in America has a greater chance to become an Evangelical than a Catholic. Again most of what will happen in the next 20 years will depend on Bishops but most importantly in the will of God.
My family was never the sort of family that went to church regularly anyway. As far as they’re concerned church is for hatchings, matchings, and dispatchings. I can remember my mom flirting with the J.W.’s when I was little, but until I was 12 the only consistent religious education I got was because I went to Catholic school – lived in city where public schools were unsafe. Then, when I was 12 mom got involved with a Church of God. She went to that pretty regularly until we left New Jersey, and she dragged me along – kicking and screaming. Someday I’ll write about the serious spiritual damage this church did to me. Then, after we moved to VA, the only member of my family who has gone to church consistently is me (and my son when he was under 18).
My son’s girlfriend is not religious, and I think that is the main reason he doesn’t go to church anymore. Plus, he idolizes my youngest brother who holds going to church in contempt.
Aliasmoi,
Readers my not realize that there are a number of different denomination that call themselves “Church of God” including a Pentecostal denomination, a Holiness denomination and a Christian Brethren offshoot. Wouldn’t want people to be thinking about one when you are meaning another.
For what it’s worth, I do personally know a number of people who came into the Catholic Church with no religious background whatsoever. Anecdotal evidence is worthless evidence, though, so take that with a grain of salt.
This is the Church of God denomination that has it’s head quarters in Cleveland, TN and runs Lee University.
I have three daughters, 29, 26, and 23. All were raised in church. My wife and I taught them to be independent thinkers. Though God was a fact in our family, we gave the girls room to ask questions. All see themselves as believers, and none now go to church. They detest what they perceive as falseness. They dislike most of the music in evangelical churches. They are all more drawn toward something one might call a “high church”, God centered, approach to God. But they also dislike the lack of faith in many of the churches that are high church. So for now, they are not in church. All three desire something more, but are making no effort to go out and find it.
I have many older friends who are dropping out of church. I am in a town that is the headquarters for the Assembly of God. The other half of the people here are mostly Baptist. Neither have a strong historical sense of Christianity, though the Assemblies are growing in that regard. Consequently, they are susceptible to Frank Viola style summations of Christian history along with its simplistic denouncements of the church as being out of touch and unessential. They see church as no more than a human institution, and therefore have no problem rejecting it in full. If I attempt to present the idea of a church that was and is created by Christ, as that which Christ died for, they look at me like I’m someone from outer space. The concept of a universal church with physical manifestations we can touch and participate in does not compute. That churches are and always have been impure and less than heavenly is not believed.
These people are all life-long church goers who, until recently, could never have imagined a life outside of church. They are mostly in their fifties. Since they believe church is no more than what they have experienced, and that any historical manifestation of the church (Catholic and even Reformation) is even worse than what they have known, they have divorced themselves from the life they have known in way I find strangely cold and hard to understand. They imagine a pure, early church that met in homes with no organization, hierarchy, or doctrine. They are mostly self satisfied, lone ranger Christians. If they attempt anything at all as a community of believers, they get together in homes, sing worship songs, eat a meal, and share a little about their life with one another. They are oddly disinterested in scripture other than how it may affect them individually. They will use it to make a point they wish to make, but are strangely unmoved if an opposing scripture is presented that would contradict their opinion. They have, to my mind, become totally free floating and disconnected from the “faith of the fathers.”
The town we are in is part of the Bible belt. But I think the evangelical faith I see here is barely connected to the historic Christian faith if it ever was. Perhaps this is simply a manifestation of the secularization of American culture, and this is what it looks like in the center of the heartland.
MDS
Aliasmoi and Michael,
I probably shouldn’t have asked my previous question. I don’t think that any one church has a monopoly on hurting others. I have seen people hurt by church in a wide variety of denominations and singling one out for attention was probably not a good idea.
Michael would you be willing to do some editing in this regard?
Michael Bell: Just a sarcastic aside on the facts, such as I see them:
Lots of people equate Living the Faith with having the right Scripture quote available for any situation. Their pastor’s eyes glaze over when he talks about sin and right and wrong and reading the Bible and Jesus – his voice gets loudens and he seems moved by his own escalations. The little kids go to Bible Camp to learn what the right Scriptures to say are, and put their crayons to coloring books filled with cartoons of Moses and the Holy Spirit (??!).
This is Christianity.
This is a totally unrealistic place. This is a minimum-security zoo for very strange people. Teens notice eventually. They look around, having heard all their lives about this Jesus guy, and see this bizarre place his Spirit is supposed to be in, and suddenly they can no longer identify why it is that they would want to believe in Jesus – believing in Jesus, they come to realize, has always been just another word for “believing that this zoo is here for a reason”. Now, they stiffen and conclude that this crazy church exists because these people want to quote these kind and deadly aphorisms to one another and have their kids play in certain coloring books, and that’s all there is to it, and even the pastor is lost in it, and to each his own – Jesus is, clearly, whatever people want him to be. And if that’s not unrealistic, those kids wouldn’t know what is.
“Actually the demographics indicate it will become a faith comprised of mostly Hispanics. At least in the USA.”
The young Hispanic kids growing up here leave the church in roughly the same rate as their white peers, unfortunately. In South America as well, groups like the Pentecostals are gaining huge ground on the Catholic Churches in many nations – SA Catholics are undergoing a culture erosion too, just not the same as we are here. Religiosity takes a big hit intergenerationally in general, and whereas high barriers to entry into mainstream Anerican culture kept the church strong as ethnic groups rallied there and built social ties, the same dissipating social realities that affect (or should I say disaffect) young whites also affect young Hispanics.
The Spanish-speaking Catholic church in America, I figure, is about half a generation behind the curve on the downward trend. That’s my half-educated opinion, based on growing up in that church and reading about it.
I would also like to say I think the problem at that church was primarily with the youth group – and some with the leadership that put a psychopath in charge of the youth. It was a problem in THAT church. Not the CoG at large.
Patrick,
It is hard for me to grasp where you stand. I have seen you articulate more than once the thought that Jesus and Christianity is but the creation of our individual perspectives and experiences. It is difficult for me to discern what you mean by this. You clearly think something more than this is going on, but what that more is I’m unclear about.
In the Bible, Jesus is forever blowing up the boxes that people have put him and the Father in. Our boxes are always too small. Christian growth means having our boxes blown up, growing into new ones, only to have them blown up once more ad. infinitum.
This doesn’t mean the God we were given by our family, churches, and culture was wrong altogether. It simply means we are no longer children and must “leave home” if we are to stay on the road with Christ. We don’t need to denounce those who seem not to be “growing” along with us or judge their Jesus to be a pure fiction. But to try and stay within the confines of the houses we grew up in after we have known something beyond them will turn us into false people. And so conflicts do arise. I’m just not sure they mean we must judge those we have left as wrong. I am called to judge only myself and no one else.
I really don’t know if what I’m talking about and what you are talking about are the same thing. Maybe you’ll comment and help me to know.
Of my parents’ generation, only one uncle in my family is alive and is a devout RC. My in-laws have always been socio-cultural Christians (moralistic therapeutic deists) and have not attended services since their childhood, but all on my side were regularly attending RC or EO.
Of my generation, 4 of us are regular attenders (2 RC, 1 SBC, and me- raised RC, recently post Evangelical and now heading toward EO) and 2 non-denom Protestants, former regulars but not attending now because of health reasons, out of 9 total who are still alive.
Of my children’s generation, 20 total, fewer than 5 attend church at all, other than special occasions, and I have no idea how often. All those who do attend are RC.
In general, I think church attendance in this country is like water- all aswirl with motion, flowing in different directions that don’t look like what the various traditions used to look like, because of the social upheaval of the last 40 years. I think of those who attend, many are looking for something different than they grew up with, for various reasons, not always hedonistic. I think Barna’s research needs to be taken seriously as a springboard, and more “Why?” questions need to be asked before we can really say much of anything about it.
Dana
I am the first Christian on my side of the family, and probably the last. My two sons, age 15 and 13, were baptized as infants and raised in the Orthodox Church. Both attended sunday school. Like a commenter above, I taught them to be independent thinkers. My oldest stopped going to church when he was 12, because he stopped believing in any of its teachings. I hoped my youngest would stick around, as he was very dedicated until the age of 11 or so. He was also an altar boy for about 3 years. But now, he is about to leave church, for the same reason as his brother. At least, he still comes to me with questions about my own faith, and I give him explanations as much as I can. Though I am not without my own doubts lately.
My guess is, there are many factors contributing to the de-churching of our society. For one, this stuff really is hard to believe and embrace, especially if you have not read much on the subject. And believe me as a mother, I tried, but there is only a very small amount of religious literature you can shove down your kids’ throat. First they are too young to understand it, then when they are finally old enough, they are not interested.
Peer pressure, IMO a close second. It’s hard to go to church when no one else in your class does. It is hard for a child to get out of bed at 8AM Sunday morning, knowing full well that every one of his classmates is sleeping in today. Furthermore it is hard to go to church when everyone else thinks it’s a silly superstition. We are talking several generations here. Almost everyone my age that I know personally is atheist or agnostic. Same with my children’s peers.
Lastly, as we are all aware. Huge turn-offs exist inside the church itself. Nine times out of ten, when I got to know some of my fellow parisioners closer, I wished I hadn’t. This especially applies to the most vocal and active members in church, parish council members etc. There are not enough intelligent, freethinking people in church, and those that are, are not vocal enough to be ever noticed by others. And this is just our parish, which I consider one of the better ones. When you look at Christian society in America in general, esp the religious right, it is straight out depressing. What we see all too often is out-of-control hate and ignorance, denial of scientific facts, intolerance for the very same people they are called to serve, etc. This may not be true of the entire religious right movement, but this is what we see and hear from its most vocal members. No teenager in their right mind would support that.
The only suggestion I can think of is more outreach work. I’m glad to say my church has made huge steps in that direction lately. This IMO will appeal to young people infinitely more than cheesy “rock”?! music and laser-tag outings. That, and promote engaging our intellect more. Orthodox church for one, has an immense store of philosophical works at all levels, that we can learn from. So many teens try to keep going on fumes of what they learned in elementary years of Sunday school, and fail.
We stopped going to church regularly about 14 years ago. No big disagreement, just issues of integrity, personal responsibility, and the search for authenticity vs. life in the bubble of what seemed to us to be a corporate organisation in which you somehow had to suspend most of your faculties in order to get along.
Just had a wonderful weekend retreat with over thirty friends (including a handful of non-Christians) where we baptised our oldest daughter (she’s 11). Would like to see more organic / community based fellowship emerge (aah – I used the “e” word!!) and I think this is at the heart of what God is doing at the moment.
IMonk
I think SBC is growing, the First Baptist (?American Baptist)is not. A of G definitely is.
Converts to the CC here and to many of our churches are often coming without any traditional Christian faith.
As for our children, I agree there is only so much that a parent can do, but it must be sincere and truthful – including the doubts. If we believe faith is a gift, we must trust in the power of Grace and train our children to be open to Truth. The Church in fifty years will be whatever God wills it to be.
My sister and I were raised in the church (Baptist). My father two to three times a year was invited to give a guest sermon even though he is a professor not a minister. My sister and I drifted away when we moved away from home.
Fast forward 18 years – my sister is very involved member of a very charismatic church. My wife and I are very involved in a nondenom church that is dying both spiritually and financially. My mother attends a churchs whose raison d’etre is racial healing (it is a church plant statred by two churches – one all black, one all white). My mother started going there when I got married (I’m black, my wife is white) – her imagined penance for being less than thrilled in my spouse selection. My father stays home to watch NFL Sunday Ticket – the politics (both party and personal) and lack of substance drove him away.
My extended family are almost all church goers — all are still Baptist. Interestingly enough, the only non-baptists in my extended family are B’hai. My in laws are PCAers and still go, although my wife’s uncles have drifted away and one of them is married to a quasi-athiest / Unitarian.
Most of my family (parents, aunts, uncles) go to church.
I stopped going to church for about five years after graduating from a Christian college. I felt acutely alone as a single woman, and the pain was worst at church, plus it’s hard for me to get involved in social situations (like church), so I just stayed home. I always felt convicted about it, though, and two years ago I started going to a good church that had Saturday night services. This church has been amazing for me and helped me not feel so apprehensive about church in general.
Both my wife and I come from a “churched” background, but also one where the Christian life was part of our home life – not just a Sunday morning exercise. My in-laws were very active in their church until they died, my parents and my wife and I attend the same church, and my sister and her family are active in their church. My oldest and youngest sons have detached themselves from the church and my middle son has not been attending due to work schedule conflicts, but has been attending another local youth group with some friends and occasionally attends church when his work schedule allows.
What has been sad to read in many of the posts is the sense that the church has almost chased people away and that people feel that they are better off without the community of the Body of Christ. The church is not about the building, the “institution”, or the pastor. It is first and foremost about Christ and His community. While I have many issues with most of the denominations, including my own, I would still seek out the community of believers because I believe we are called to live in community.
My grandparents on mom’s side were in the Church of the Brethren and they raised all five of their children in it. Out of those five one uncle did not come to Christ until a couple of weeks before his death, another uncle has always been fairly strong in the faith, my mom and aunt are regular church attenders, and another uncle is not a regular church attender. One of my cousins is now an Assemblies of God minister but the last I heard none of his three kids have much to do with church. I don’t see many of my other cousins often but from what I gather two of them never go to church (and may not believe at all) while another three do attend fairly regularly. I wound up in the United Methodist Church and attend services regularly along with my wife and son.
My father’s side of the family has never been religious and that includes him. There was some incident before I was born where some pastor said something which offended him and he has rarely been back to church since. When I do try to invite him he either turns me down or else shows up and openly displays and attitude of “is it time to go yet?” throughout the whole service.
Both sides of my wife’s family are Baptists. Her mother regularly attended church until she died. One of her aunts still attends church while the other one watches Jerry Falwell’s son on TV and counts that as church attendance. Her cousins rarely show up for church other than Christmas and Easter.
If I see any sort of culture emerging in my area it would definitely be post-Christian. Looking around at other people my age (mid 30’s) and younger I just don’t see that many of them choosing to go to church. The general mindset seems to be that as long as you are basically “good” then you get to go to heaven. If you believe anything more theologically precise than that then you are seen as being judgmental, narrow, hateful, etc.
The churches in my area are a very mixed bag. We have some mainline protestant churches which are barely holding on and others within the same denomination which are growing; this growth is tremendously high in some cases. There are very conservative Baptist churches which scream (sometimes literally) about missions and bringing in the lost but yet have remained the same size or shrunk over the years. Churches that preach the gospel plus some form of works based salvation are common throughout all of the local evangelical denominations and some of these grow while others shrink or are stagnant. As much as I hate to admit the fun factor seems to be key to growing a congregation around here. All of the largest churches in my area have at least one service with contemporary music and casual dress and the growing churches also feature this sort of thing.