Comments on: Open Mic at the iMonk Cafe: Anyone Willing To Complain About the ESV? http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/open-micv-at-the-imonk-cafe-anyone-willing-to-complaint-about-the-esv ...dispatches from the post-evangelical wilderness Sun, 12 Feb 2012 12:47:28 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: J. Allen Johnson, Jr. http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/open-micv-at-the-imonk-cafe-anyone-willing-to-complaint-about-the-esv/comment-page-1#comment-513207 J. Allen Johnson, Jr. Thu, 01 Oct 2009 17:22:04 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=4393#comment-513207 Amen Amen

]]> By: J. Allen Johnson, Jr. http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/open-micv-at-the-imonk-cafe-anyone-willing-to-complaint-about-the-esv/comment-page-1#comment-513206 J. Allen Johnson, Jr. Thu, 01 Oct 2009 17:21:39 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=4393#comment-513206 Please describe to me what clunky means. Please describe to me what clunky means.

]]> By: J. Allen Johnson, Jr. http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/open-micv-at-the-imonk-cafe-anyone-willing-to-complaint-about-the-esv/comment-page-1#comment-513205 J. Allen Johnson, Jr. Thu, 01 Oct 2009 17:20:41 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=4393#comment-513205 In my short time of preaching the Gospel for 10 years, I have been an advocate of the NASB. Upon reading the ESV, I have found it to be scary, nevertheless satisfying as well. It is scary because for me it is new. I have only been using it for a year now. I do trust the translation and prefer it over the NIV, but I still cling to NASB when preparing sermons. In preaching, our congregation has settled on NKJV. I often prepare messages and do my personal devotionals using my ESV Study Bible. In my short time of preaching the Gospel for 10 years, I have been an advocate of the NASB. Upon reading the ESV, I have found it to be scary, nevertheless satisfying as well. It is scary because for me it is new. I have only been using it for a year now. I do trust the translation and prefer it over the NIV, but I still cling to NASB when preparing sermons. In preaching, our congregation has settled on NKJV. I often prepare messages and do my personal devotionals using my ESV Study Bible.

]]> By: A Noble Theme » Blog Archive » Translations, Translations http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/open-micv-at-the-imonk-cafe-anyone-willing-to-complaint-about-the-esv/comment-page-3#comment-512293 A Noble Theme » Blog Archive » Translations, Translations Wed, 23 Sep 2009 18:49:42 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=4393#comment-512293 [...] a recent posting regarding his misgivings about the ESV Bible translation, Internet Monk Michael Spencer quotes–but does not give a specific source for–Emerging [...] [...] a recent posting regarding his misgivings about the ESV Bible translation, Internet Monk Michael Spencer quotes–but does not give a specific source for–Emerging [...]

]]> By: Aaron http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/open-micv-at-the-imonk-cafe-anyone-willing-to-complaint-about-the-esv/comment-page-2#comment-512153 Aaron Tue, 22 Sep 2009 22:14:34 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=4393#comment-512153 Whoa Jude! Let's not start any accusations or name calling. I studied under Dr. Ray Van Neste and Dr. Mark Dubis and they are both terrific greek scholars and they used the term "wooden". They are definitely not "pseudo-scholars". I'm hurt that you would say that about them. Whoa Jude! Let’s not start any accusations or name calling. I studied under Dr. Ray Van Neste and Dr. Mark Dubis and they are both terrific greek scholars and they used the term “wooden”. They are definitely not “pseudo-scholars”. I’m hurt that you would say that about them.

]]> By: Ed http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/open-micv-at-the-imonk-cafe-anyone-willing-to-complaint-about-the-esv/comment-page-3#comment-511491 Ed Thu, 17 Sep 2009 16:17:30 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=4393#comment-511491 This excellent article on translation philosophies by Michael Marlowe explains why "clunkiness" may not be so bad: http://www.bible-researcher.com/dynamic-equivalence.html This excellent article on translation philosophies by Michael Marlowe explains why “clunkiness” may not be so bad: http://www.bible-researcher.com/dynamic-equivalence.html

]]> By: Dan http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/open-micv-at-the-imonk-cafe-anyone-willing-to-complaint-about-the-esv/comment-page-3#comment-511032 Dan Tue, 15 Sep 2009 17:12:17 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=4393#comment-511032 I don't have a huge problem with any of the contemporary translations, with the possible exception of the NASB which stands head and shoulders above the rest in clunkiness and general unreadability. Typically when I'm looking up a passage online I'll bounce between a couple different translations to ensure I've got the proper sense of the original. In no cases that I've encountered have I felt as though a particular translation was glaringly different from all the rest. Given that I already own a couple bibles and all of them are online anyway, I can't get behind laying out the cash for yet another one. Sorry ESV... I don’t have a huge problem with any of the contemporary translations, with the possible exception of the NASB which stands head and shoulders above the rest in clunkiness and general unreadability. Typically when I’m looking up a passage online I’ll bounce between a couple different translations to ensure I’ve got the proper sense of the original. In no cases that I’ve encountered have I felt as though a particular translation was glaringly different from all the rest.

Given that I already own a couple bibles and all of them are online anyway, I can’t get behind laying out the cash for yet another one. Sorry ESV…

]]> By: Daniel http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/open-micv-at-the-imonk-cafe-anyone-willing-to-complaint-about-the-esv/comment-page-3#comment-510972 Daniel Tue, 15 Sep 2009 11:52:59 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=4393#comment-510972 I used to be an NIV guy, until... I read one of my favorite theologian authors make a passing comment about how the NIV misinterprets Paul and through use of dynamic equivalence ended up making very little sense. This shook me up big time. I loved to read the bible. I studied every day, read it every spare moment I had. After I read this particular authors comment, and looked it up myself and saw that he was correct, I could no longer read the NIV. I was in limbo for the next year as I studied the making of translations. So now, even though there are times when I am frustrated by the ESV's rendering (especially in some of the Gospels), I feel alot more confidence, assured that the words I am reading is closer to what is actually written. Also, for the most part, the ESV does very fine for me. I never have trouble understanding what is read, it's more frustration at the way it is said (i.e., "Judge not, that you be not judged"). I used to be an NIV guy, until… I read one of my favorite theologian authors make a passing comment about how the NIV misinterprets Paul and through use of dynamic equivalence ended up making very little sense. This shook me up big time. I loved to read the bible. I studied every day, read it every spare moment I had. After I read this particular authors comment, and looked it up myself and saw that he was correct, I could no longer read the NIV. I was in limbo for the next year as I studied the making of translations.

So now, even though there are times when I am frustrated by the ESV’s rendering (especially in some of the Gospels), I feel alot more confidence, assured that the words I am reading is closer to what is actually written. Also, for the most part, the ESV does very fine for me. I never have trouble understanding what is read, it’s more frustration at the way it is said (i.e., “Judge not, that you be not judged”).

]]> By: David T. http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/open-micv-at-the-imonk-cafe-anyone-willing-to-complaint-about-the-esv/comment-page-3#comment-510848 David T. Mon, 14 Sep 2009 15:53:43 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=4393#comment-510848 I once read somewhere that the NRSV has as much liberal bias as the ESV has conservative bias. I do agree the ESV is clunky. Compare it to the NRSV and this is obvious. The NRSV is really smooth. Ultimately, it boils down to what works for you, but I suspect that, as several posters mentioned, any single translation will get old over time. If you are the typical evangelical looking to the text for truth and illumination you are limited to the text at hand. Yes I know it's "God's Word" but it's still a book, full of words. Any growing Christian is going to get to the point where the Bible moves from daily reading to reference manual. You find yourself reading books and looking up topics more and picking up the Bible for basic reading less. And that's ok. Don't blame the translation for _that_, and stop giving yourself grief over it. Here is a great article on "Quiet Time Guilt": http://www.gregscouch.homestead.com/files/quiet_time_guilt.htm I once read somewhere that the NRSV has as much liberal bias as the ESV has conservative bias.
I do agree the ESV is clunky. Compare it to the NRSV and this is obvious. The NRSV is really smooth. Ultimately, it boils down to what works for you, but I suspect that, as several posters mentioned, any single translation will get old over time. If you are the typical evangelical looking to the text for truth and illumination you are limited to the text at hand. Yes I know it’s “God’s Word” but it’s still a book, full of words. Any growing Christian is going to get to the point where the Bible moves from daily reading to reference manual. You find yourself reading books and looking up topics more and picking up the Bible for basic reading less. And that’s ok. Don’t blame the translation for _that_, and stop giving yourself grief over it. Here is a great article on “Quiet Time Guilt”:
http://www.gregscouch.homestead.com/files/quiet_time_guilt.htm

]]> By: David T. http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/open-micv-at-the-imonk-cafe-anyone-willing-to-complaint-about-the-esv/comment-page-3#comment-510846 David T. Mon, 14 Sep 2009 15:29:58 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=4393#comment-510846 "I don’t understand the comments about it being hard to understand at all. If you’re reading and there’s a word you don’t understand, pull out a dictionary for pete’s sake. That’s much better than complaining that the translators didn’t bring the words down to your level. If you’re reading and the phrasing of a verse makes it hard to understand – maybe … just maybe that’s intentional." Whoa there. This is the exact same argument the King James Only people make. I would not go down this road. It is better to admit the imperfections of the ESV- you can still hold that it is superior _comparatively_ while acknowledging it has parts not as easily comprehended as would be preferred. “I don’t understand the comments about it being hard to understand at all. If you’re reading and there’s a word you don’t understand, pull out a dictionary for pete’s sake. That’s much better than complaining that the translators didn’t bring the words down to your level. If you’re reading and the phrasing of a verse makes it hard to understand – maybe … just maybe that’s intentional.”

Whoa there. This is the exact same argument the King James Only people make. I would not go down this road. It is better to admit the imperfections of the ESV- you can still hold that it is superior _comparatively_ while acknowledging it has parts not as easily comprehended as would be preferred.

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