I’m not sure I see discipleship and conversion as the same thing. We can have discipleship going on without conversion. Likewise, we can have conversion going on without discipleship, no?

HE ALLOWS NO MEMBER……

really ?? so far, after thinking about it a day or two: this still reeks: find this kind of closed membership anywhere in the NT; OK, they’ve expanded because the people “get it”. But what did they “get” ?? Outreach= wonderful; cult like control= not so much.

>> Church should be a place to bring people who need or want) to start a relationship with God. <<

When did church become a place for outreach and evangelism?

The Great Commission commands us to go into the world to carry the Gospel message out to the people that need to hear it. Evangelism in the New Testament is accomplished by going out to new territories (across the street, across the seas) or by bringing an acquaintance directly to the Messiah. I do not think there is justification for using church as a tool for outreach anywhere in the Scripture. And I do not think our contemporary experience of seeker-focused Sunday worship services combined with too-little discipleship training the rest of the week is a success.

(And never mind what a newbie like me thinks. Isn’t the point of this thread that discipleship among believers is deficient? You don’t worry about what to measure or how to measure a thing until you are aware that the thing is lacking.)

end of rant.
maybe if I saw this in operation, I’d sing a different tune

Greg R