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	<title>Comments on: Open Mic at the iMonk Cafe: You Tell Me&#8230;Why Does Red Envelope Day Bother Me?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/open-mic-at-the-imonk-cafe-you-tell-mewhy-does-red-envelope-day-bother-me/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/open-mic-at-the-imonk-cafe-you-tell-mewhy-does-red-envelope-day-bother-me</link>
	<description>...dispatches from the post-evangelical wilderness</description>
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		<title>By: iMonk</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/open-mic-at-the-imonk-cafe-you-tell-mewhy-does-red-envelope-day-bother-me/comment-page-2#comment-388883</link>
		<dc:creator>iMonk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Mar 2009 11:29:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=2883#comment-388883</guid>
		<description>Doesn&#039;t do much....Well, apparently it does a lot. It separates the real pro-lifers from the pretenders.

I mean, if you don&#039;t love Jesus enough to wear a blue t-shirt on Thursday, what kind of Christian are you?

:-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Doesn&#8217;t do much&#8230;.Well, apparently it does a lot. It separates the real pro-lifers from the pretenders.</p>
<p>I mean, if you don&#8217;t love Jesus enough to wear a blue t-shirt on Thursday, what kind of Christian are you?</p>
<p> <img src='http://www.internetmonk.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Navy Chaplain</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/open-mic-at-the-imonk-cafe-you-tell-mewhy-does-red-envelope-day-bother-me/comment-page-2#comment-388861</link>
		<dc:creator>Navy Chaplain</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Mar 2009 10:34:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=2883#comment-388861</guid>
		<description>I find faddish stuff like this similiar to Facebook causes.  Maybe good intent, but at the end of the day doesn&#039;t really do much.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I find faddish stuff like this similiar to Facebook causes.  Maybe good intent, but at the end of the day doesn&#8217;t really do much.</p>
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		<title>By: Flatrocker</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/open-mic-at-the-imonk-cafe-you-tell-mewhy-does-red-envelope-day-bother-me/comment-page-2#comment-388847</link>
		<dc:creator>Flatrocker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Mar 2009 09:50:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=2883#comment-388847</guid>
		<description>Matt,
Thanks for saying what needed to be said. You weren&#039;t early and you weren&#039;t late - just about right on time actually.

It&#039;s not a bantering game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHGWq3pq5B8</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matt,<br />
Thanks for saying what needed to be said. You weren&#8217;t early and you weren&#8217;t late &#8211; just about right on time actually.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not a bantering game.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHGWq3pq5B8" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHGWq3pq5B8</a></p>
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		<title>By: Matt Yonke</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/open-mic-at-the-imonk-cafe-you-tell-mewhy-does-red-envelope-day-bother-me/comment-page-2#comment-388784</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt Yonke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Mar 2009 05:22:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=2883#comment-388784</guid>
		<description>I know I&#039;m late to the party and these thoughts will largely go unread, but here goes anyway.

I find the cynicism that predominates these comments downright discouraging. 

Why is it that sending an envelope and doing something active to fight abortion are mutually exclusive?

Working full time in the pro-life movement, I have been greatly moved by the number of people who have been incredibly grateful for the one small thing they were asked to do that really got them involved in pro-life work.

I know people who were pro-life their entire lives and did nothing about it, until someone invited them to a picket at an abortion clinic. Or asked them to come pray. Or invited them to attend a city council meeting opposing a new abortion clinic.

Any of those things in and of themselves are as meaningless as everyone here wants the red envelope campaign to be. But you have no idea for whom this might be the gateway into active, passionate work on behalf of the unborn.

What&#039;s more, you have no idea how many of these envelopes are being sent by people who are currently doing active, passionate work for the unborn. 

I&#039;ll tell you this much, pretty much every person I know who is doing exactly that has sent an envelope.

Not because we think it will be the magic button that stops all abortions, not because we&#039;re idiots who don&#039;t understand that stopping abortion isn&#039;t within the direct purview of the president, but because it&#039;s something. It&#039;s an outlet. It&#039;s a way of expressing the outrage and grief we feel over the 3,500 dead babies that lie in dumpsters and drains every single day in the United States. 

And if you can&#039;t allow people an outlet for that kind of emotion, if you&#039;re going to begrudge them the $1.42 they&#039;re going to spend on this gesture, if all you can offer is carping and cynicism, then I don&#039;t know how to even begin to explain to you what this campaign means. 

Everyone who&#039;s suggested better things to do than sending red envelope: Great. Do it. Don&#039;t talk about it on a blog, don&#039;t tell other people what they should be doing instead, just go do it.

If the Holy Spirit hasn&#039;t laid it on your heart to send a red envelope to the president, by all means don&#039;t do it. But don&#039;t be that guy telling everyone else why their idea sucks.

Be the guy pursuing the idea that works.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know I&#8217;m late to the party and these thoughts will largely go unread, but here goes anyway.</p>
<p>I find the cynicism that predominates these comments downright discouraging. </p>
<p>Why is it that sending an envelope and doing something active to fight abortion are mutually exclusive?</p>
<p>Working full time in the pro-life movement, I have been greatly moved by the number of people who have been incredibly grateful for the one small thing they were asked to do that really got them involved in pro-life work.</p>
<p>I know people who were pro-life their entire lives and did nothing about it, until someone invited them to a picket at an abortion clinic. Or asked them to come pray. Or invited them to attend a city council meeting opposing a new abortion clinic.</p>
<p>Any of those things in and of themselves are as meaningless as everyone here wants the red envelope campaign to be. But you have no idea for whom this might be the gateway into active, passionate work on behalf of the unborn.</p>
<p>What&#8217;s more, you have no idea how many of these envelopes are being sent by people who are currently doing active, passionate work for the unborn. </p>
<p>I&#8217;ll tell you this much, pretty much every person I know who is doing exactly that has sent an envelope.</p>
<p>Not because we think it will be the magic button that stops all abortions, not because we&#8217;re idiots who don&#8217;t understand that stopping abortion isn&#8217;t within the direct purview of the president, but because it&#8217;s something. It&#8217;s an outlet. It&#8217;s a way of expressing the outrage and grief we feel over the 3,500 dead babies that lie in dumpsters and drains every single day in the United States. </p>
<p>And if you can&#8217;t allow people an outlet for that kind of emotion, if you&#8217;re going to begrudge them the $1.42 they&#8217;re going to spend on this gesture, if all you can offer is carping and cynicism, then I don&#8217;t know how to even begin to explain to you what this campaign means. </p>
<p>Everyone who&#8217;s suggested better things to do than sending red envelope: Great. Do it. Don&#8217;t talk about it on a blog, don&#8217;t tell other people what they should be doing instead, just go do it.</p>
<p>If the Holy Spirit hasn&#8217;t laid it on your heart to send a red envelope to the president, by all means don&#8217;t do it. But don&#8217;t be that guy telling everyone else why their idea sucks.</p>
<p>Be the guy pursuing the idea that works.</p>
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		<title>By: Katie</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/open-mic-at-the-imonk-cafe-you-tell-mewhy-does-red-envelope-day-bother-me/comment-page-2#comment-388765</link>
		<dc:creator>Katie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Mar 2009 04:26:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=2883#comment-388765</guid>
		<description>Mike,

I know you were being sarcastic in your Burger King paragraph, but ironically, doing those little things really WOULD be more helpful than the envelopes. I guess someone could turn it around and say that if doing those little things seems like too much effort (and I admit, I&#039;m not doing them),  abortion just isn&#039;t that important to those people. I mean, seriously.. a real pro-lifer would do anything they could to help, especially if it just meant skipping participation in the latest conservatrend, or eating more pb&amp;j sandwiches. To say that&#039;s asking too much really shows how much value ones places on a baby.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike,</p>
<p>I know you were being sarcastic in your Burger King paragraph, but ironically, doing those little things really WOULD be more helpful than the envelopes. I guess someone could turn it around and say that if doing those little things seems like too much effort (and I admit, I&#8217;m not doing them),  abortion just isn&#8217;t that important to those people. I mean, seriously.. a real pro-lifer would do anything they could to help, especially if it just meant skipping participation in the latest conservatrend, or eating more pb&amp;j sandwiches. To say that&#8217;s asking too much really shows how much value ones places on a baby.</p>
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		<title>By: julieh</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/open-mic-at-the-imonk-cafe-you-tell-mewhy-does-red-envelope-day-bother-me/comment-page-2#comment-388761</link>
		<dc:creator>julieh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Mar 2009 04:14:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=2883#comment-388761</guid>
		<description>I wish the money spent on all those fancy envelopes and postage was going towards adopting orphans and foster children instead. 

What an amazing stand would it be if Christians stood up and adopted all of the orphans.  We&#039;d truly send the message that not only is abortion wrong, but that the so-called &quot;unwanted&quot; little ones are wanted and will have homes and loving families.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wish the money spent on all those fancy envelopes and postage was going towards adopting orphans and foster children instead. </p>
<p>What an amazing stand would it be if Christians stood up and adopted all of the orphans.  We&#8217;d truly send the message that not only is abortion wrong, but that the so-called &#8220;unwanted&#8221; little ones are wanted and will have homes and loving families.</p>
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		<title>By: iMonk</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/open-mic-at-the-imonk-cafe-you-tell-mewhy-does-red-envelope-day-bother-me/comment-page-2#comment-388755</link>
		<dc:creator>iMonk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Mar 2009 04:03:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=2883#comment-388755</guid>
		<description>This discussion shows some of the sad predictability that this specific kind of action engenders. No one on here supports &quot;killing innocent babies,&quot; yet here we have a comment thread with all the usual simmering tensions. Here&#039;s why. Watch carefully.

Let&#039;s say that tomorrow I announce to my fellow teachers and staff that everyone who loves Jesus should wear blue next week to &quot;make a statement.&quot;

Now here we go. Division. Argument. Exceptions, etc. And all of it growing out of &quot;Do you love Jesus enough to wear blue?&quot; A condition I made up, that has nothing to do with loving Jesus.

It&#039;s this kind of meaningless symbolism that causes division and argument for no reason. The whole plan is an artificial loyalty test. Satan must have a good laugh at what we do with these things. &quot;Do you REALLY REALLY REALLY love Jesus? Why is your shirt only LIGHT BLUE then?&quot;

ms</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This discussion shows some of the sad predictability that this specific kind of action engenders. No one on here supports &#8220;killing innocent babies,&#8221; yet here we have a comment thread with all the usual simmering tensions. Here&#8217;s why. Watch carefully.</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s say that tomorrow I announce to my fellow teachers and staff that everyone who loves Jesus should wear blue next week to &#8220;make a statement.&#8221;</p>
<p>Now here we go. Division. Argument. Exceptions, etc. And all of it growing out of &#8220;Do you love Jesus enough to wear blue?&#8221; A condition I made up, that has nothing to do with loving Jesus.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s this kind of meaningless symbolism that causes division and argument for no reason. The whole plan is an artificial loyalty test. Satan must have a good laugh at what we do with these things. &#8220;Do you REALLY REALLY REALLY love Jesus? Why is your shirt only LIGHT BLUE then?&#8221;</p>
<p>ms</p>
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		<title>By: Steved</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/open-mic-at-the-imonk-cafe-you-tell-mewhy-does-red-envelope-day-bother-me/comment-page-2#comment-388738</link>
		<dc:creator>Steved</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Mar 2009 03:22:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=2883#comment-388738</guid>
		<description>Greg Boyd tells a story about a woman who takes in a pregnant teen who is turned out by her &quot;Christian&quot; family. She agrees to support the girl no matter what her decision (keep the baby or abort). The girl decides to keep the child. The woman helps her with the child, taking the teen into her home and helping her to go to college. Even when  a)it costs her the friendship of the girl&#039;s parents and b) she has to get a second mortgage to help pay for the girl&#039;s college education. 

Red Envelopes don&#039;t do squat when it comes to solving the problem: people make mistakes, how do we communicate the grace and love of God to a country that is in the majority lost. Letting the love of God show through us will do much more to solve our abortion epidemic than sending Red Envelopes or standing outside of clinics and harassing those who are seeing help. A much more radical ides would be for those who are pro-life to stand outside a clinic and offer to help those who are seeking an abortion regardless of what their final decision is. Standing by a frightened teen or a scared rape victim or even a promiscuous woman who is getting an abortion instead of birth control will further the Kingdom of God more than all of the vigils put together. Maybe instaed of praying we should be loving the people who need it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Greg Boyd tells a story about a woman who takes in a pregnant teen who is turned out by her &#8220;Christian&#8221; family. She agrees to support the girl no matter what her decision (keep the baby or abort). The girl decides to keep the child. The woman helps her with the child, taking the teen into her home and helping her to go to college. Even when  a)it costs her the friendship of the girl&#8217;s parents and b) she has to get a second mortgage to help pay for the girl&#8217;s college education. </p>
<p>Red Envelopes don&#8217;t do squat when it comes to solving the problem: people make mistakes, how do we communicate the grace and love of God to a country that is in the majority lost. Letting the love of God show through us will do much more to solve our abortion epidemic than sending Red Envelopes or standing outside of clinics and harassing those who are seeing help. A much more radical ides would be for those who are pro-life to stand outside a clinic and offer to help those who are seeking an abortion regardless of what their final decision is. Standing by a frightened teen or a scared rape victim or even a promiscuous woman who is getting an abortion instead of birth control will further the Kingdom of God more than all of the vigils put together. Maybe instaed of praying we should be loving the people who need it.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/open-mic-at-the-imonk-cafe-you-tell-mewhy-does-red-envelope-day-bother-me/comment-page-2#comment-388727</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Mar 2009 02:53:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=2883#comment-388727</guid>
		<description>First time to this site.  Very interesting.

As for Red Envelope-gate . . . [mod edit].  The people participating in this little civic exercise aren&#039;t under the delusion that they are going to change the laws on abortion, but there is no harm in it either.  It&#039;s a petition for crying out loud.  I suppose writing a letter to the editor or to your Congressman is just as pathetic and pointless.  Or posting on this blog . . . 

You&#039;re right JonB5200, we have no right to take any minor kind of stand against abortion unless we&#039;ve ponyed up $50K to raise someone&#039;s unaborted kid.  

And yes, K Bryan, those Red Envelopers have unwittingly defunded crisis pregnancy centers because the cost of the postage for the petition could have gone to a crisis pregnancy center.  Better yet, we are doing the same thing everytime the family orders take out at Burger King because, you know, we could have saved money by making peanut butter sandwich for the kids and sent the difference to the local pregnancy center.  Or to JonB5200&#039;s $50k fund . . .  

And no, I didn&#039;t participate in the [mod edit] petition.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First time to this site.  Very interesting.</p>
<p>As for Red Envelope-gate . . . [mod edit].  The people participating in this little civic exercise aren&#8217;t under the delusion that they are going to change the laws on abortion, but there is no harm in it either.  It&#8217;s a petition for crying out loud.  I suppose writing a letter to the editor or to your Congressman is just as pathetic and pointless.  Or posting on this blog . . . </p>
<p>You&#8217;re right JonB5200, we have no right to take any minor kind of stand against abortion unless we&#8217;ve ponyed up $50K to raise someone&#8217;s unaborted kid.  </p>
<p>And yes, K Bryan, those Red Envelopers have unwittingly defunded crisis pregnancy centers because the cost of the postage for the petition could have gone to a crisis pregnancy center.  Better yet, we are doing the same thing everytime the family orders take out at Burger King because, you know, we could have saved money by making peanut butter sandwich for the kids and sent the difference to the local pregnancy center.  Or to JonB5200&#8217;s $50k fund . . .  </p>
<p>And no, I didn&#8217;t participate in the [mod edit] petition.</p>
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		<title>By: Peaches</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/open-mic-at-the-imonk-cafe-you-tell-mewhy-does-red-envelope-day-bother-me/comment-page-2#comment-388715</link>
		<dc:creator>Peaches</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Mar 2009 02:01:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=2883#comment-388715</guid>
		<description>If we inside  talking about how strange we can be as evangelicals it&#039;s self examination and mostly healthy (silly, condescending civics lessons aside). God knows that we need the examination about our silliness, our self absorbed focus and our refusal to realize how much the world has changed. No problem with me in rigorous self examination and self criticism.
If on the other hand we are on the outside throwing rocks at those silly evangelicals then we are smarmy, self righteous pharisees judging others of the sins we are most guilty of. Be careful about throwing rocks out of the windows of your glass houses.  
Shooting at the hypocrisy of liberals is ridiculously easy and utterly beside the point. Don&#039;t get me started on the Catholics. :) Everyone can profit from a little exam. 
My point? There is a easy path to &quot;other&quot; the people we disagree with as a way of dehumanizing them and their point of view.  Evangelicals have done it all too often.  Be careful that you don&#039;t also succumb. Self examination is a good antidote to the self righteous.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If we inside  talking about how strange we can be as evangelicals it&#8217;s self examination and mostly healthy (silly, condescending civics lessons aside). God knows that we need the examination about our silliness, our self absorbed focus and our refusal to realize how much the world has changed. No problem with me in rigorous self examination and self criticism.<br />
If on the other hand we are on the outside throwing rocks at those silly evangelicals then we are smarmy, self righteous pharisees judging others of the sins we are most guilty of. Be careful about throwing rocks out of the windows of your glass houses.<br />
Shooting at the hypocrisy of liberals is ridiculously easy and utterly beside the point. Don&#8217;t get me started on the Catholics. <img src='http://www.internetmonk.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  Everyone can profit from a little exam.<br />
My point? There is a easy path to &#8220;other&#8221; the people we disagree with as a way of dehumanizing them and their point of view.  Evangelicals have done it all too often.  Be careful that you don&#8217;t also succumb. Self examination is a good antidote to the self righteous.</p>
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