Open Mic At The iMonk Cafe: Responding to the Whoppers
June 22, 2009 by iMonk
Your Christian friend has been staying up late on the internet, listening to Christian short wave and now comes up with a collection of completely bizarre, totally mythological pieces of anti-factual, conspiratorial nonsense—”They drilled a hole to hell,”….”Obama is a Muslim”…..”NASA has proven the sun stands still”….”9-11 was prophesied in Ezekiel”….”Christianity is going to be illegal by the next election.”
What do you do?
Do you correct them?
Do you leave it alone?
Do you write down Snopes.com on a card and give it to them?
Do you laugh? Weep?
Do you top it with a stranger story?
What is the right response to ignorance, factual error and sweeping untruths?
This won’t be the most Jesus-shaped answer, but it really depends on how much I care about the person spouting the ignorance. If I care about the person I’ll correct them (to the extent they’re willing to engage the issue and be rational) If I don’t care about the person, I usually cringe inwardly at the stupidity of the masses and attempt to ignore it (read: “rant about it to someone I care about later”).
Like I said, it’s not the most Jesus-shaped answer, what with the whole “don’t the tax collectors and sinners do the same?” bit.
Sigh of frustration. Why do so many who go looney tune go the religious looney route? Conspiracy theorists really amuse me. this world is so unorganized, perhaps they just wish someone was in charge.
After decades of trying, I admit, if they listen to Short Wave, they won’t listen to me.
Sounds like the experience of this group is with people who have borderline to serious psychological problems, which is not something I would know how to address. However, from the spiritual side, I would suggest that paranoia is derived, at least in part, from fear and a lack of control over one’s life. The lack of control is reality, it must be accepted, but fear is a problem Christians can tackle. Christ tells us “Be not afraid” again and again. That would be the answer I’d offer.
Speaking as a mind-controlled drone amongst thousand of millions enmeshed by an ancient secretive cult that is engaged in a vast global conspiracy that spans millenia and is slowly working behind the scenes to attain ultimate power and crush all dissent under the autocratic rule of a semi-divine priest-king (otherwise known as the Roman Catholic Church), let me just say that the nuttier the theory, the more sympathy I have for the person spouting it.
For instance, I have been vastly amused by an article (courtesy of Mark Shea) that, amongst other things, asks the RCs to return the loot stolen from the Temple of Solomon (?) and to “(c)onsider, for example, the teaching that only humans have souls. What about whales? What about Chimpanzees and Bonobos that share more than 98% of our genes.”
When the craziness is ramped up this high, I don’t actually mind it as much as I do those who spout off nonsense about history or other easily verifiable matters of fact that ten minutes on Google would easily refute (”Nine million witches slain in the Burning Times!”). That kind of thing irritates me, but what really drives me up the wall are those who claim to be rational or reasoners or scientifically minded, yet dismiss any attempt at correction and sneer that the theology behind the views they are misrepresenting is not worth their time to glance at.
Those in a position to perpetuate a biased and even false account, which will have real repercussions and real effects on how policy and social attitudes are formed, worry me far more than the “Did you know that bar-codes contain the Number of the Beast?” types.
I work with a lot of low income people in chronic pain, and there’s a real tendency to believe these stories and theories. It seems like fairly intelligent, but uneducated people who feel shut out from society go there pretty easily.
I’m not there to talk to them about this in my work capacity, so I listen and try to move the conversation back to areas where I can help. I always leave these appointments feeling fearful. I think there’s a part of me that can’t dismiss these things out of hand (it’s not the reasonable, logical side of me.)
A lady was telling me that Obama had begun conscripting a personal army–that people had no choice whether to join or not–that he was working for the Anti-Christ and that it was too late. I tried to joke it off (and gently let her know that I wanted to move on), saying: “I hope that it’s not too late! I’ve got a three-year-old and an eighteen month-old that I’d love to see grow up and raise their kids!” –She looked me in the eye and said, “It’s too late for them.” Thanks lady!
Another fear that this kind of talk brings up in me is that Christians might just be capable of making Hal Lindsey’s nightmares come true by taking their eschatology into politics. It seems like some policies (especially in regards to Israel and the Arab world) that evangelicals support could best be described as “pro-armageddon.” I wonder if it ever occurs to Hagee and his camp that there could be a huge war (even in Megeddo) and that it wouldn’t necessarily put the return of Christ any closer.
Here I go again!
I guess what I need and what my clients who are believers need is the quiet trust that can sustain us through crisis–whether global or personal. May God give us grace to know it!
I really do think ten such people as the guy who wrote the online article referenced above do less harm than someone such as Professor P.Z. Myers who desecrated an allegedly, and I’m really hoping it was only allegedly, consecrated Host as proof that he wasn’t scared of the zombie Catholic hordes adn their bread-god (and justified it because ‘Catholics killed Jews back in the Middle Ages’):
http://www.rense.com/general81/whycth.htm
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2008/07/the_great_desecration.php
I have no idea where Mr. Fulford works or what he does, but I bet anything you like that he has less influence than Professor Myers, who influences his students by his attitude to religion (it’s all crazy stupidity, and shouldn’t be tolerated even to the extent of humouring your nutty aunt).
I found a remedy for this on David Ker’s Lingamish website. Maybe it was posted here? Anyway, it’s a “prayer” of repentance for those who send or tell us things we need to know because of – you know – all the things we *don’t* know.
God, I hide my head in shame.
My idiotic emails [stupid "research" results] have
tarnished your name.
Instead of spreading lucidity,
I have been proclaiming stupidity.
Words of praise to you should be my song,
Not forwarded emails that are always wrong.
Help me not to waste others’ time,
But instead reflect on the divine.
Make me a fool for Christ. I am a fool.
But let me not be the enemy’s tool.
I have forwarded this to many people, and I have received fewer of these stupid things, but there are still those who choose to regale us with these at every gathering. Oh, well.
CJH
I actually was confronted with this recently. An old friend asked me to meet him at a public library. He came with a long list of topics he wanted to discuss: the Illuminati, the Bildebergers, comets, government takeovers of everything, etc. My friend does not have a job. He lives on Social Security disability, would not attend any church I recommended, and still does not go to church for all I know. — Michael
That’s not surprising. Without a job or a life, he can spend 24/7/365 tracing all the tentacles of The Vast Conspiracy.
I see this in every sort of fandom — gamer, Furry, anime, Politics Politics Politics, the Net, whatever. It’s always the mooch-boys without the distraction of a job or life who are able to self-promote themselves or indulge their obsession without distraction. Show me a Big Name Fan/Netizen/Whatever and my first question is “Who’s the Sucker they’re mooching off of?”
And Conspiracy-a-Go-Go can detach you from reality like you wouldn’t believe. (Conspiracy Theories and Secret Societies for Dummies — good read — makes this point several times.) Check out Bob Dylan’s “Talking John Birch Society Blues” for an example. Or Chronicles of Narnia: The Last Battle — as in “THE DWARFS ARE FOR THE DWARFS! WE WON’T BE TAKEN IN!”
And Born-Again Christians seem especially prone to Conspiracy Kookarama — check this article on the subject.
I usually play along, and try to get them to say something even more nutty. Bush was actually a reptilian alien… — Wayne
David Icke! With his Man-eating Reptoids from Inside The Hollow Earth and their Organic Robotoid puppets! (Tip: Only heavy doses of LSD allow you to see beneath their magickal/psychic disguises.)
…Proctor and Gamble worship Satan… — Wayne
As does everybody except The Truther (take a number and stand in line for the Black Mass). IRL, the “Proctor and Gamble Worship SATAN!” Truth(TM) was traced back to Amway.
…the earth is hollow and we are living on the inside… — Wayne
Cyrus “Koresh” Teed and his Cult of Koreshianity, late 19th Century!
…whatever might get them to cross the line into territory EVERYBODY thinks is crazy. — Wayne
Like a dose of Francis E Dec Esq? As in “COMMUNIST GANGSTER COMPUTER GOD ON THE DARK SIDE OF THE MOON PUPPETING PARROT GANGSTER ASSASSINS THROUGH FRANKENSTEIN EARPHONE RADIO CONTROLS!!!!!!”?
But I expect you’ve run into cases where even that doesn’t work, and your next line says why:
One good line is that if there doesn’t seem to be any evidence of a conspiracy, that means the conspiracy has succeeded in covering it up. — Wayne
Because it is Literally IMPOSSIBLE to shake a Grand Unified Conspiracy Theory. Evidence against the Conspiracy is Obviously Disinformation Planted by The Conspiracy. Lack of evidence for The Conspiracy is PROOF! The Conspiracy is So Vast THEY Can Silence Anybody. (Except the Dedicated Heroic Truther, of course, which is the whole anchor into his ego.) “THE DWARFS ARE FOR THE DWARFS! WE WON’T BE TAKEN IN!”
And because they won’t let themselves be taken in, they can’t be taken out of the filthy Conspiracy stable into reality.
And again, Christians are very prone to locking themselves in that stable.
I think all those conspiracy theories are put out there on purpose by the government just to confuse us and keep our eyes off the Real Conspiracy Amongst Us…fluoride in our drinking water!
Everyone wants to be thought of as smart. People get into these weird stories because they think it makes them look smart, like they’ve grasped some hidden truth. It also makes them feel brave, since the information could be dangerous. there are more constructive ways of being smart and brave, like joining the fire department. But being a conspiracy guy is a lot easier since all you have to do is stay plugged into the weirdo news outlets and such.
I agree with those who have mentioned that Christians, especially evangelical/born-again folks, seem to be especially prone to this sort of thing.
I didn’t see it much when I served in a mainline church, but hoo-boy I get a dose of it nearly every week in my current evangelical non-denom church.
My question is why? I suspect it has something to do with the overall tone of Christian radio/TV that evangelicals listen to… kind of a gateway drug that primes them for the “hard stuff.”
But I really don’t know. Thoughts?
I pesonally like the Snopes.com option. I have forwarded a link to the site several times in response to some of the nonsense e-mail forwards I have received. The “Chrisitan” e-mail forwards are a personal pet peeve of mine. I can’t ever recall getting one that was 100% true. This is terrible for our witness. No wonder the world thinks we are a bunch of hypocritical weirdos.
“I pesonally like the Snopes.com option.”
I see people who repeat some of these whoppers falling into 2 categories. The first are the people who are rational but don’t stop to think about something that fits their view of how things are and thus sounds true. For them snopes.com works. And civil discussions can come out of it.
The other group is those who are true believers. For them snopes.com is just a part of the conspiracy.
And it can be very frustrating for relationships when relatives fall into the 2nd category. Over the years the possible civil topics of conversation can dwindle down to the time of day, is it raining, and maybe what’s the weather report for tomorrow.
*…and I’m really hoping it was only allegedly, consecrated Host as proof that he wasn’t scared of the zombie Catholic hordes adn their bread-god (and justified it because ‘Catholics killed Jews back in the Middle Ages’)*
Actually, Myers justified it on the basis that he doesn’t believe it. And I’m hugely inclined to agree with him: Why should he or I bow and scrape before a cracker *qua* cracker?
And Myers has made a point of saying he *doesn’t* go out of his way to stomp on creationism or Christian belief or Muslim belief or anything else. He records his own responses to the confrontations he sometimes has with creationsists in his biology classes as UM-Morris and he generally comes across as cautious and firm but gentle.
He has said he’s aware of the power a teacher or professor wields over his students (not to mention over their grades) and, wanting to differentiate himself from the religious-minded who have abused such authority before, he does his best to avoid doing so himself. He generally saves his vitriol for his blog where, I think, it has a place.
So no: I for one don’t think Myers/Pharygula is more of a danger to world peace than LaHaye, Jenkins, Scofield, etc.
*My question is why? I suspect it has something to do with the overall tone of Christian radio/TV that evangelicals listen to… kind of a gateway drug that primes them for the “hard stuff.”
But I really don’t know. Thoughts?*
I have a thought. But do I really need to detail it for you to know what it is?
I have someone in my life who spends most of her time listening to talk shows and reading about conspiracy…Oh, and living in abject terror of the future. I’ve been listening to her predictions for 30 years, none of which have happened yet. When I nicely try to point out the error of whatever the issue is, either she glazes over and changes the subject or argues with me. Either way, she chooses not to listen to reason. I tell myself that I will stop trying, but the next time she tells me that Obama is going to draft me into the military and send me away from my 4 small children, I’m sure I will say something…again…and it will fall on deaf ears…again.
My usual answer is the conspiracy is so big it seems normal because everyone is in on it. — MikeS
Ever wondered if THAT’s the reason Conspiracy types are so bitter? They’re the Only One in the Entire World who ISN’T Part Of The Vast Conspiracy…
Also tried the “stranger story” approach, bringing up the lizard shapeshifters. I was told that is a silly government-originated story designed to discredit conspiracy theorists and therefore it proves the reality of the New World Order. — AT Chaffee
“THE DWARFS ARE FOR THE DWARFS! WE WON’T BE TAKEN IN!”
If they’re still too stupid to get it, they’ll probably end up doing something that qualifies them for a posthumous Darwin award, so…whatever…nature has a way of weeding out the ridiculously moronic among us. — L
Just add alcohol. Darwin awards usually involve alcohol.
We don’t get the more Christian-y versions of this kind of stupidity and ignorance in my neck of the woods, but we do have more than our fair share of 9-11 “Truthers” and all I can say is that sometimes it’s okay to haul off and punch someone’s teeth through the back of their heads. Sorry, but it’s true. There are some things you should NEVER tolerate, and that would be one of them. — L
As Penn & Teller advised in their BS episode about 9/11 Conspiracy TRUTHers:
“We’re showing you this book (a 9/11 TRUTH!er Bible) so you’ll recognize it. If you meet anyone carrying this book, PUSH THEM DOWN THE NEAREST FLIGHT OF STAIRS!”
Another fear that this kind of talk brings up in me is that Christians might just be capable of making Hal Lindsey’s nightmares come true by taking their eschatology into politics. It seems like some policies (especially in regards to Israel and the Arab world) that evangelicals support could best be described as “pro-armageddon.” I wonder if it ever occurs to Hagee and his camp that there could be a huge war (even in Megeddo) and that it wouldn’t necessarily put the return of Christ any closer. — Linus
I call this attitude “Christians For Nuclear War”; it was endemic during the Age of Hal Lindsay.
And there’s an Islamic version, too: The Twelfth Imam Cult of Persian Shia. That’s the reason the Ayatollahs of Iran are hell-bent on getting nukes — so they can fulfill THEIR End Time Prophecies.
…as proof that he wasn’t scared of the zombie Catholic hordes adn their bread-god (and justified it because ‘Catholics killed Jews back in the Middle Ages’) — Martha
“Zombie Catholic Hordes and their Bread God…” Good line, gotta remember it as another zombie in the horde. But then us Romish Papists have to stick together to deliver the world to Satan through our Satanic Death Cookies!
IA! IA! NIMROD!
IA! IA! SEMIRAMIS!
IA! IA! TAMMUZ!
CTHULHU NA-FTHAGN!
I think all those conspiracy theories are put out there on purpose by the government just to confuse us and keep our eyes off the Real Conspiracy Amongst Us…fluoride in our drinking water! — stephen
Thus causing the “Destruction of Our Precious Bodily Fluids” — Dr Strangelove
Debunking sterotypes.
My Mother has been on this road for years. She has never had internet, nor short wave radio. Just a line of mail order books going back to one titled:
The Coming Ice Age, circa 1976(?). She also has some magazine(s) that fan the flames.
She is educated. She loves the Lord. She is not fundamentalist nor evangelical, nor argumentative. Just naive and often isolated – even when raising the family she was somewhat isolated. She always kept water and supplies on hand just in case …
She’s now deep in the land of
The Secrets of Fatima.
I think she has some unresolved anger and emotional issues and this is an outlet.
Depends on how well I know the person and what level of trust exists in that relationship. If I don’t really know them and they don’t know me, there’s little reason for them to believe me, so I usually don’t say much at all.
If I know them and there is some level of trust, I’ll say or e-mail some variation of “fear not” or “worry not” (which is scriptural, BTW), as well as the Snopes link if at all possible.
there not all true?
And I am not getting $150m for helping that nice Christian man from Nigeria?
“And it can be very frustrating for relationships when relatives fall into the 2nd category. Over the years the possible civil topics of conversation can dwindle down to the time of day, is it raining, and maybe what’s the weather report for tomorrow.”
It’s more than frustrating; it’s downright painful when that relative is your dad, whom you work with, who not only believes every conspiracy theory that comes down the pike, but also believes that white people are the “real” lost tribes of Israel, and the only people going to heaven.
I am so thankful, IM, that you posted this blog, because it makes me feel less alone to know that there are others who are dealing with this. I truly wish that there was a support group for Family Members of Racist Paranoid Conspiracy Followers, because it is really difficult to deal with in a Christ-like manner (or any manner, really) without losing your mind or severing the relationship completely.
I used to send Snopes links, along with gentle reminders that we need to be sure we aren’t engaging in slander, and that it’s our responsibility as Christians to be sure we are speaking truth … but sometime during the last presidential election, I was informed by a relative who tends toward these sorts of e-mails that Snopes itself was a liberal conspiracy. His e-mails, at least, are now ignored.
I’ve not been very successful at correcting these kinds of errors. If somebody else has, good for them.
Ron P
There is no such thing as a “Pure skeptic”, because that position is untenable and impossible to live out consistantly. Christians are not really “up against” pure skeptics, we are opposed often times by people, who just like us, take certain fundamental things on faith. The only difference is that they are hesitant to acknowledge those things that they put their faith in, and we openly declare that we trust in, believe in God.
“There is no such thing as a “Pure skeptic”, because that position is untenable and impossible to live out consistantly.”
Yeah. Just take the issue of homeopathic medicine. It doesn’t have to prove anything as some major supporters in Congress have gotten it written into the laws related to the FDA that they can’t regulate it. (I’m over simplifying here but that’s the basic idea.) So do these “medicines” work? I don’t believe it for a minute. But many do. And without any proof being needed to match the claims made who can argue the point. James Randi has made a career out of debunking them but his semi-circus act doesn’t come across as science to many. And with no one funding research these things will live on for a long time.
Oh, yeah, the world center of homeopathic belief is that very rational secular center of the universe France.
“Satanic Death Cookies”. . .there was an Uncanny X-Men comic series where the mutant-hating Church of Humanity had a plan to fake the Rapture by inserting deadly disintegrator nanotechnology into communion wafers throughout the world as part of a plot to get a blue furry teleporter elected Pope. . .and, um, I am not sure where the plot was supposed to go after that, but it was foiled.
As a Brit my experience is usually to say; “Soooo your American then?” Nah just kidding, although you guys do have a fair few crazies or is it just easier for them to get on TV?!
Anyway on a serious note, if they’ve sent me an e-mail I’ll reply with a comment along the lines of; “Please check your sources. If you don’t you are simply subscribing to the media model of mass hysteria based on no/minimal evidence” They usually come back shamefaced at that because the very thing they are complaining about is hype based media!
If it’s a ‘Christian’ story, i.e. designed to make God look good, I usually ask them “why, if God is so awesome, do they need fake/exaggerated stories to big him up?” The God I see in Jesus doesn’t need to be lied about, he is pretty amazing when you just look at the plain truth!
*Christians are not really “up against” pure skeptics, we are opposed often times by people, who just like us, take certain fundamental things on faith. The only difference is that they are hesitant to acknowledge those things that they put their faith in, and we openly declare that we trust in, believe in God.*
Sure. Fine. Whatever you want to tell yourself to make yourself feel good.
*Oh, yeah, the world center of homeopathic belief is that very rational secular center of the universe France.*
No it’s not.
*Yeah. Just take the issue of homeopathic medicine. It doesn’t have to prove anything as some major supporters in Congress have gotten it written into the laws related to the FDA that they can’t regulate it.*
Number one supporter of exempting things from FDA review: Orrin Hatch. Seriously. Utah is ground zero for any number of ridiculous companies selling ridiculous “medicines” made from nothing in particular. It’s a good way to make money when your state has A.) crap instead of education, B.) no water or soil worthy of the name for agriculture, C.) back country clans of polygamists with many underage wives and bigger appetites than regular welfare can provide for. Packaging “vitamins” for sale online is the perfect way to put your fillies and their spawn to work without attracting the attention that might be garnered by face-to-face commerce.
The Snopes approach worked pretty well for me with the co-workers who passed along a lot of urban legends — at least to the extent that after I’d responded with a Snopes link a few times, they took me off their CC: list for such messages.
On the whole, I think the underlying theme often *is* psychological here — there are people who find it easy to get excited about conspiracy theories and the subject of the excitement can be almost anything, whether religious, political, scientific, medical or whatever. And there’s a phenomenon called “crank magnetism” where people who latch onto views like this in one area are prone to believing the same sorts of things in other areas as well.
Interesting — and, I thought, rather compassionate — article on the whole phenomenon here:
http://scienceblogs.com/denialism/2009/06/the_psychology_of_crankery.php
The Denialism blog has some collections of past posts in its title bar that are also pretty helpful (if less charitable).
I find myself often struggling with the opposite sort of issue: I have to be careful how much conspiracy-theory debunking and ridicule I read, because scorn can be as addictive as the crankery it mocks.
J
“*Oh, yeah, the world center of homeopathic belief is that very rational secular center of the universe France.*
No it’s not.”
More than one homeopathic fan seems to think it is.
http://www.boiron.com/en/htm/01_homeo_aujourdhui/realite_eco_homeo.htm
“France, with over 300 billion euros, is the largest homeopathy market in the world, followed by Germany (200 billion euros). 40% of the French have already been treated with homeopathy*, and 74% of the patients stated that they are “inclined to follow a homeopathic treatment if prescribed by their doctor”.”
I had someone come to my place of employment wanting sources to back up her thesis that the Baptist Church was the original church started at Pentecost. I tried very hard not to be a smart-mouthed jerk, but I also wasn’t sure exactly how to help. I finally suggested that she avoid unbiased sources and seek out books written by people who already agreed with her point of view. Yeah, that was a cop-out, but she seemed okay with my response. Sigh…
I usually do not get emails with the urban legends anymore. I always reply with a Snopes URL. I think that really cuts down on the volume of glurge in the inbox. Lately I have decided that when I do get them I ‘Reply All’. Might as well shame the sender and hopely spark some critical thinking skills to the chain.
In person it is a bit more tricky. I think laughter is good medicine, so often I just snicker and play it off as though they are joking. If they take offense, then we can debate it. Many times though they look sheepish and seem to realize how crazy they sound and quickly change the subject.
Last night at my daughter’s baseball game. (yes baseball) the family in front of me had a couple of friends with them. I swear one of these guys was Cliff Clavin’s clone. Non stop nonsense with a glimmer of truth at the core. I had to bite my tongue several times be never corrected him. This family home schools and is very religious based on the hats and shirts they wear to every game. I hope they had the intelligence to ignore this fool and were just being polite.
What do you do when a popular and respected preacher also makes batty and nonsensical claims. Check out what David Wilkerson wrote on his website in March:
“I am compelled by the Holy Spirit to send out an urgent message to all on our mailing list, and to friends and to bishops we have met all over the world.
AN EARTH-SHATTERING CALAMITY IS ABOUT TO HAPPEN. IT IS GOING TO BE SO FRIGHTENING, WE ARE ALL GOING TO TREMBLE — EVEN THE GODLIEST AMONG US.
For ten years I have been warning about a thousand fires coming to New York City. It will engulf the whole megaplex, including areas of New Jersey and Connecticut. Major cities all across America will experience riots and blazing fires — such as we saw in Watts, Los Angeles, years ago.
There will be riots and fires in cities worldwide. There will be looting — including Times Square, New York City. What we are experiencing now is not a recession, not even a depression. wrath.” http://www.worldchallenge.org/coverletter/an_urgent_message
I almost wish so many Christians like him where right and not down right demented. That way it wouldn’t be so embarrasing.
buy them a copy of Umberto Eco’s “Foucault’s Pendulum” amazing what a fourteenth-century grocery list can do!
http://www.amazon.com/Foucaults-Pendulum-Umberto-Eco/dp/0345368754
Jaz,
How can an obvious nutcase like this be repected and popular? That is the part I do not get.
The popular and respected are the ones most in need of correction b/c the sheep will follow the shepard.
“If it’s a ‘Christian’ story, i.e. designed to make God look good, I usually ask them “why, if God is so awesome, do they need fake/exaggerated stories to big him up?” The God I see in Jesus doesn’t need to be lied about, he is pretty amazing when you just look at the plain truth!”
Great comment, Nick (especially for a Brit!)
Actually, it’s not just the loonies. I too often hear testimonial anecdotes that exaggerate or in some way “hype” God’s power or goodness from friends and celebs alike. Seems to be a staple of Christian television.
Instead, why not share about the sufferings and unresolved problems we experience? Let others see faith “during the process” instead of only in the slo-mo highlights reel.
J, I don’t want to get into that dogfight on Michael’s site again. It’s been thrashed out to death on various places, and it’s not made a screed of difference to opinion on either side.
But I still maintain that the crazy conspiracy people do less real harm than those who, under the mantle of being realists, of being intelligent grown-up folk who don’t need those old fairy tales, of being the arbiters of the kind of society we should be constructing and if only this simple advice was followed we’d all be living amongst rainbows and unicorns, cherish their ignorance and disseminate untruths.
Am I asking Professor Myers to become a Catholic? To bow before the Eucharist? To stop agitating for atheism on his own site? No. I’m just asking him not to spit in my face, then tell me I’mm being oversensitive if I ask for common courtesy.
ATChaffee:
“. . .there was an Uncanny X-Men comic series where the mutant-hating Church of Humanity had a plan to fake the Rapture by inserting deadly disintegrator nanotechnology into communion wafers throughout the world as part of a plot to get a blue furry teleporter elected Pope. . .and, um, I am not sure where the plot was supposed to go after that, but it was foiled.”
Imagine…Nightcrawler with the power of infallibility as well as teleportation.
My friend swears by a film called “What the (bleep) do we know?” which is apparently big in Australia. For example, we know that the growth of crystals is influenced by the thoughts of people around them, which is suggestive of mind over matter… I looked it up on Wikipedia, which led me to criticisms of the theory.
Did you ever wonder how Snopes would handle religious claims?
Claim: Jesus of Nazareth, a first-century Palestinian religious figure, was born to a virgin mother.
Status: False.
History: While “virgin births” are common in world mythology, this particular flourish seems to have resulted from a Hebrew-to-Greek translation error…
morgan – oh, yes. The Third Secret of Fatima was always good for scaring the daylights out of people with intimations about terrible persecutions and what-not; the Catholic version of the Tribulation
Then the spoilsport Vatican revealed it, and it wasn’t at all what everyone was expecting, so now we have the hard-core conspiracy theorists claiming that this was *not* the REAL Third Secret, and that the prophecy is too terrible to be revealed just yet.
When asked why the Vatican would put out a false secret, be prepared to stand well back for the rant to follow (everything from false Popes to Satan has taken over!!!! to Communist infiltration to Lord alone knows what).
My favourites, though, are the apparitions of Our Lady in waterstains and cheese sandwiches
What does one do when one’s seminary professor just announced that Jesus was born in Nazareth? Presented without further comment. As in, “Translate this, house of bread, Bethlehem, as in, the town where Jesus was, well, not born. We know where Jesus was born. It wasn’t Bethlehem. It was Nazareth. Jesus was born in Nazareth. Ok, next word. How would you pronounce this one?”
The irony of us (the ‘dying-God’ set) feeling any way about other people’s unbelievable beliefs is kind of irritating to me – I think the solution is really simple and has nothing to do with debating shut-ins on their pet theories.
Cranks are often lonely, suspicious people. This most of us have observed; Christian cranks are all the more tragic because the things they should believe in and thirst for (the holiness of community, cheerful submission, wisdom) have sort of died in them. Cranks usually lack the hope for the future or trust in the holiness of the Kingdom of the present that a life by grace nurtures in us, and they often have trouble looking at people rightly without relapsing to their suspicious categories. It’s not just a bad mental habit thats slowly transformed them, but a bad spiritual one.
My suggestion: instead of trying to counter the cranks among us with reality, try and reintroduce them to humanity. It’s a patient labor, helping somebody to develop the social skills that allow them to put down their weaponized ideas and defense mechanisms, but with love I think fresh community and good times can heal almost anything.
It’s not only in the religious area, where there are conspiracy theories.
Last night, I bit my tongue over comments about drug companies keeping cancer cures in their vaults. It wasn’t worth the effort to explain the complicatedness of cancer/FDA approval/ and even the cost of research and development.
Overall, I just tend to keep quiet. Not worth the cost in relationships.
Ahem. In the interests of accuracy:
” homeopathic medicine. It doesn’t have to prove anything as some major supporters in Congress have gotten it written into the laws related to the FDA that they can’t regulate it.*
There are certain laws , but the FDA is understaffed and doesn’t enforce as much as it could. Interesting conundrum for the anti-government sort of conspiracy theorist; do we side with restricting-my-freedom-of-choice government regulators or greedy manufacturers? Which one is the all-wise “common man”?
I personally think many folk home remedies are soothing and mostly harmless, that many natural products have interesting potential, and that treating garlic as a drug would be a little rough on Italian chefs.
However,my consiracy-theory relative will take any supplement recommended on the radio, and the line “the medical establishment is against us because if you took our pill you would be healthy and they would stop making money” is pretty common. A lot of advertising that counts on the FCC not watching closely.
Most of the time I gently correct them. I did this during the presidential campaign even as I was going to hold my nose and vote for McCain. There were enough legitimate reasons to vote against Obama without participating in outright falsehood.
Every now and then I’ll just let it go if it’s not the time or place to get into a big discussion. And I’m fond of hitting “reply all” and sending them to Snopes.
The thing I have to resist is not adding the snark I’d like to when this stuff keeps getting circulated. That’s especially key when you’re dealing with in-laws.
My favourites, though, are the apparitions of Our Lady in waterstains and cheese sandwiches. — Martha
Out here in SoCal, we call those “Mary-in-a-Tortilla”; Mary Obesssion IS the quintesinally Catholic way to flake out.
One entrepreneur actually marketed some sort of stencill you insert into your toaster with the bread; it toasts a picture of St Mary on the bread. Try THAT on these miracle wannabes…
I was in a college class with a very conservative teacher who was trying to demonstrate how the world is falling apart and our society is becoming so secular that Christians are downright persecuted (oh, okay, I’ll just say it: I was at Focus on the Family Institute) — in order to demonstrate the point, he read the Onion article on Harry Potter out loud. I was so embarrassed for him, I couldn’t sit still. I don’t know if it was very respectful or professional, but I waved my arm, and finally stood up while he read. I interrupted and said, “I’m sorry, that’s from the Onion, and it’s a spoof newspaper. None of what you’re reading is true.” It was embarrassing, but I felt like it would be more embarrassing to let him finish reading the article to everyone and use it to make his ill-founded point. He was an intelligent, educated man I think. I felt like I had to do him this favor. …He received it very graciously and apologized and moved on. I don’t know if I would do the same thing now that I’m older (but I sure wouldn’t be at Focus on the Family Institute again, so oh well).
I think miraculous claims overseas can be grouped together with the Obama is a muslim kind of stuff. I’m talking about how normal, non-conspiracy Christians believe that God is miraculously healing people in places like Africa and Asia (but, conveniently, never here in America). I used to believe such claims but I don’t any more since these claims always happen on the other side of the world where you can’t even verify it.