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	<title>Comments on: Open Mic at the iMonk Cafe: Lectionary Lesson Blahs</title>
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	<description>...dispatches from the post-evangelical wilderness</description>
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		<title>By: Brother Bartimaeus</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/open-mic-at-the-imonk-cafe-lectionary-lesson-blahs/comment-page-1#comment-516880</link>
		<dc:creator>Brother Bartimaeus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Oct 2009 20:01:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=4874#comment-516880</guid>
		<description>Sorry to be so late to the party (everyone needs a vacation).  Obviously I have an affinity to this story so I thought I&#039;d still weigh in, even if I&#039;m talking to the wind.  Besides the wonderful observations above (love the J&amp;J comparison) , here are a few more topics for sermon exploration.

1) While only mentioned briefly, Jericho is an important indicator in this gospel.  As a few have mentioned above, this story marks a turning point in direction for Jesus.  Jericho was also a turning point for the Jews, marking a transition from the Exodus and wandering in the desert to the creation of Israel.  It also marks Jesus&#039; return to the beginning of his ministry, as he was likely baptised by John in the Jordan outside of Jericho.

2) This is a real stretch, but I&#039;m struck by Joshua&#039;s curse upon those who might want to rebuild Jericho: &quot;It will cost him his firstborn son to lay the foundation. It will cost him his youngest son to set up the city doors&quot;.  It rings important considering Mark&#039;s centrality of the cross, but as Jesus is both the foundation and the door, I&#039;m not sure how to square that.

3) Timaeus was a famous dialog of Plato which postulates the creation of the universe, man and the soul.  It was probably known (or maybe well known) by the early Christian church, as Philo, the Hellenistic Jewish philosopher and contemporary of Jesus, is believed to have Timaean influences in his commentaries on Jewish scriptures (those commentaries were a favorite of the early church, which is why they still exist).  This plays into the comments above about the Bartimaeus miracle being a sign of new creation.  

It seems hard to believe that Mark isn&#039;t making a connection between Timaeus and the gospel when you consider that within Timaeus, Plato says that the eyes are the first organs formed by &quot;the gods&quot; (although Plato is considered monotheistic).  He further indicates that without the eyes, nothing could be said about the world around us.  By giving Bartimaeus sight, Mark may be saying that Jesus is really the God described in Timaeus (or could be critiquing Timaeus).  Also in the Timaeus, sight is descibed as light interacting with eye until it reached the soul, which then becomes perception.  Perhaps Mark is saying that we only truly perceive (or understand) Jesus when he interacts with the soul.  The disciples don&#039;t understand until they see Him again after the resurrection.

On a side note, I like the wordplay between the son of Timaeus calling out to the Son of David.  This could be an affirmation of Greek gentiles place as followers of Christ in the early church or at least a call to those that followed Plato.

4) The problem with Bartimaeus being a new creation story, however, is that there already is a story of Jesus giving sight to a blind man in Mark.  Why repeat that affliction?  I guess they could book end the Jesus&#039; teachings on the Jewish side of Palistine.  

5) One really important indicator that Mark is getting a something important in this story is that the only two people healed by Jesus AND MENTIONED BY NAME are Legion and Bartimaeus.  Considering the Timaeus connection and the odd name of Legion, I suspect that Mark is indicating that these names are really allegorical.  They could simply indicate Romans and Greeks, but probably something deeper.  Legion could be war or occupation or government, but I&#039;m not so sure on Bartimaeus.  Maybe equality or hypocrisy, due to the crowd&#039;s reaction to him.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry to be so late to the party (everyone needs a vacation).  Obviously I have an affinity to this story so I thought I&#8217;d still weigh in, even if I&#8217;m talking to the wind.  Besides the wonderful observations above (love the J&amp;J comparison) , here are a few more topics for sermon exploration.</p>
<p>1) While only mentioned briefly, Jericho is an important indicator in this gospel.  As a few have mentioned above, this story marks a turning point in direction for Jesus.  Jericho was also a turning point for the Jews, marking a transition from the Exodus and wandering in the desert to the creation of Israel.  It also marks Jesus&#8217; return to the beginning of his ministry, as he was likely baptised by John in the Jordan outside of Jericho.</p>
<p>2) This is a real stretch, but I&#8217;m struck by Joshua&#8217;s curse upon those who might want to rebuild Jericho: &#8220;It will cost him his firstborn son to lay the foundation. It will cost him his youngest son to set up the city doors&#8221;.  It rings important considering Mark&#8217;s centrality of the cross, but as Jesus is both the foundation and the door, I&#8217;m not sure how to square that.</p>
<p>3) Timaeus was a famous dialog of Plato which postulates the creation of the universe, man and the soul.  It was probably known (or maybe well known) by the early Christian church, as Philo, the Hellenistic Jewish philosopher and contemporary of Jesus, is believed to have Timaean influences in his commentaries on Jewish scriptures (those commentaries were a favorite of the early church, which is why they still exist).  This plays into the comments above about the Bartimaeus miracle being a sign of new creation.  </p>
<p>It seems hard to believe that Mark isn&#8217;t making a connection between Timaeus and the gospel when you consider that within Timaeus, Plato says that the eyes are the first organs formed by &#8220;the gods&#8221; (although Plato is considered monotheistic).  He further indicates that without the eyes, nothing could be said about the world around us.  By giving Bartimaeus sight, Mark may be saying that Jesus is really the God described in Timaeus (or could be critiquing Timaeus).  Also in the Timaeus, sight is descibed as light interacting with eye until it reached the soul, which then becomes perception.  Perhaps Mark is saying that we only truly perceive (or understand) Jesus when he interacts with the soul.  The disciples don&#8217;t understand until they see Him again after the resurrection.</p>
<p>On a side note, I like the wordplay between the son of Timaeus calling out to the Son of David.  This could be an affirmation of Greek gentiles place as followers of Christ in the early church or at least a call to those that followed Plato.</p>
<p>4) The problem with Bartimaeus being a new creation story, however, is that there already is a story of Jesus giving sight to a blind man in Mark.  Why repeat that affliction?  I guess they could book end the Jesus&#8217; teachings on the Jewish side of Palistine.  </p>
<p>5) One really important indicator that Mark is getting a something important in this story is that the only two people healed by Jesus AND MENTIONED BY NAME are Legion and Bartimaeus.  Considering the Timaeus connection and the odd name of Legion, I suspect that Mark is indicating that these names are really allegorical.  They could simply indicate Romans and Greeks, but probably something deeper.  Legion could be war or occupation or government, but I&#8217;m not so sure on Bartimaeus.  Maybe equality or hypocrisy, due to the crowd&#8217;s reaction to him.</p>
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		<title>By: Kyle</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/open-mic-at-the-imonk-cafe-lectionary-lesson-blahs/comment-page-1#comment-516646</link>
		<dc:creator>Kyle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Oct 2009 19:17:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=4874#comment-516646</guid>
		<description>Over here in the Catholic Church (Saint Patrick&#039;s Anglican, in Lexington), Pete Matthews set forth that Jesus is inviting us forward, and the great cloud of witnesses (from the NT lection) is urging us on. He went on for awhile on how Jesus deals with us when we respond to his call.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Over here in the Catholic Church (Saint Patrick&#8217;s Anglican, in Lexington), Pete Matthews set forth that Jesus is inviting us forward, and the great cloud of witnesses (from the NT lection) is urging us on. He went on for awhile on how Jesus deals with us when we respond to his call.</p>
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		<title>By: Bill</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/open-mic-at-the-imonk-cafe-lectionary-lesson-blahs/comment-page-1#comment-516619</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Oct 2009 12:27:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=4874#comment-516619</guid>
		<description>I know it&#039;s a liitle late but Bishop John Rucyahana of AMiA (Rwanda) preached at our church on Sunday from this text. He pointed out the dignity with which Jesus treated Bartimaeus. He also exhorted us to the same courage which Bartimaeus exercised in calling upon Christ at whatever cost ourselves. This gives opportunity to Christ to do His work among and with us.

Peace.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know it&#8217;s a liitle late but Bishop John Rucyahana of AMiA (Rwanda) preached at our church on Sunday from this text. He pointed out the dignity with which Jesus treated Bartimaeus. He also exhorted us to the same courage which Bartimaeus exercised in calling upon Christ at whatever cost ourselves. This gives opportunity to Christ to do His work among and with us.</p>
<p>Peace.</p>
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		<title>By: dumb ox</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/open-mic-at-the-imonk-cafe-lectionary-lesson-blahs/comment-page-1#comment-516592</link>
		<dc:creator>dumb ox</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Oct 2009 02:11:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=4874#comment-516592</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s a little late now, but I found today that Bartimaeus in the Aramaic meant &quot;son/person of defilement&quot;. The son of defilement calling out to the Son of God for mercy, and the Son of God heard his cry.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s a little late now, but I found today that Bartimaeus in the Aramaic meant &#8220;son/person of defilement&#8221;. The son of defilement calling out to the Son of God for mercy, and the Son of God heard his cry.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul K</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/open-mic-at-the-imonk-cafe-lectionary-lesson-blahs/comment-page-1#comment-516588</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul K</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Oct 2009 01:16:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=4874#comment-516588</guid>
		<description>Why would I tell Jesus that I want to see?  I already see fairly well, thank you very much.  And the way to get ahead in this world is, after all, to see -- to demonstrate how much you have learned, how brilliantly you can think, how clever you are, what significant things you can accomplish, how high you can climb.  Hey, you know just won&#039;t find success in this world if you dwell on your weaknesses.  Not that I don&#039;t have a few more things to learn, everybody does.  Let&#039;s just say I don&#039;t feel desperate about it.

[Queue up change in tone to -- introspection.]

&quot;I want to see!&quot;  For whose sake did Jesus require that response?  He did not have to ask.  

Now, if Jesus in the flesh were to ask me, &quot;What do you need?&quot; what ought I to say?

Suddenly this is serious.  The truth is, I must admit, &quot;Everything that matters.&quot;  Well, at least that seems right, to start.  

So then, what matters?  Storing up treasures in heaven.  Yes, I know that, full well.

But most of the time that&#039;s rarely where my mind is at, honestly.  And now that I think about it -- a little more carefully now, a little more at the level of the heart, say -- I know I and those around me are all the poorer for a mindset, a temperament, a disposition that comes from my being focused on the wrong things -- the wrong thing -- the wrong person -- me.  

And that&#039;s not right.  Yes, I suppose one could say it&#039;s a type of blindness.

&quot;My rabbi, I want to see!&quot;

 [End introspection.  Begin commentary.]

Some time ago I came across an ancient prayer that said simply, &quot;Lord, illumine our darkness.&quot;  That&#039;s an old world, beggarly approach to God, thought I.  And I thought about it a long time.  And now I think that one of the purist and best prayers we can pray is, &quot;Lord, change me.&quot;  That is, &quot;Change me to be, heart and soul, what I ought to be.&quot;  How can God not honor such a prayer?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why would I tell Jesus that I want to see?  I already see fairly well, thank you very much.  And the way to get ahead in this world is, after all, to see &#8212; to demonstrate how much you have learned, how brilliantly you can think, how clever you are, what significant things you can accomplish, how high you can climb.  Hey, you know just won&#8217;t find success in this world if you dwell on your weaknesses.  Not that I don&#8217;t have a few more things to learn, everybody does.  Let&#8217;s just say I don&#8217;t feel desperate about it.</p>
<p>[Queue up change in tone to -- introspection.]</p>
<p>&#8220;I want to see!&#8221;  For whose sake did Jesus require that response?  He did not have to ask.  </p>
<p>Now, if Jesus in the flesh were to ask me, &#8220;What do you need?&#8221; what ought I to say?</p>
<p>Suddenly this is serious.  The truth is, I must admit, &#8220;Everything that matters.&#8221;  Well, at least that seems right, to start.  </p>
<p>So then, what matters?  Storing up treasures in heaven.  Yes, I know that, full well.</p>
<p>But most of the time that&#8217;s rarely where my mind is at, honestly.  And now that I think about it &#8212; a little more carefully now, a little more at the level of the heart, say &#8212; I know I and those around me are all the poorer for a mindset, a temperament, a disposition that comes from my being focused on the wrong things &#8212; the wrong thing &#8212; the wrong person &#8212; me.  </p>
<p>And that&#8217;s not right.  Yes, I suppose one could say it&#8217;s a type of blindness.</p>
<p>&#8220;My rabbi, I want to see!&#8221;</p>
<p> [End introspection.  Begin commentary.]</p>
<p>Some time ago I came across an ancient prayer that said simply, &#8220;Lord, illumine our darkness.&#8221;  That&#8217;s an old world, beggarly approach to God, thought I.  And I thought about it a long time.  And now I think that one of the purist and best prayers we can pray is, &#8220;Lord, change me.&#8221;  That is, &#8220;Change me to be, heart and soul, what I ought to be.&#8221;  How can God not honor such a prayer?</p>
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		<title>By: JoanieD</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/open-mic-at-the-imonk-cafe-lectionary-lesson-blahs/comment-page-1#comment-516587</link>
		<dc:creator>JoanieD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Oct 2009 01:15:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=4874#comment-516587</guid>
		<description>Sally, I really enjoyed your take on this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sally, I really enjoyed your take on this.</p>
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		<title>By: Anna A</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/open-mic-at-the-imonk-cafe-lectionary-lesson-blahs/comment-page-1#comment-516584</link>
		<dc:creator>Anna A</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Oct 2009 23:07:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=4874#comment-516584</guid>
		<description>K Lo,

 I was asking myself the same question, and really couldn&#039;t think of anything either.  Other, than to be a handmaiden in His Court.

It isn&#039;t a bad thing to be content whereever you are.  Paul said that somewhere I believe.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>K Lo,</p>
<p> I was asking myself the same question, and really couldn&#8217;t think of anything either.  Other, than to be a handmaiden in His Court.</p>
<p>It isn&#8217;t a bad thing to be content whereever you are.  Paul said that somewhere I believe.</p>
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		<title>By: Christiane</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/open-mic-at-the-imonk-cafe-lectionary-lesson-blahs/comment-page-1#comment-516582</link>
		<dc:creator>Christiane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Oct 2009 22:56:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=4874#comment-516582</guid>
		<description>From C.S.  Lewis:

&quot;Well, I do think someone might have arranged about our meals,” said Digory.
“I&#039;m sure Aslan would have, if you&#039;d asked him,” said Fledge.
“Wouldn&#039;t he know without being asked?” said Polly.
“I&#039;ve no doubt he would,” said the Horse (still with his mouth full). “But I&#039;ve a sort of idea he likes to be asked.”
The Magician’s Nephew – Chapter 12</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From C.S.  Lewis:</p>
<p>&#8220;Well, I do think someone might have arranged about our meals,” said Digory.<br />
“I&#8217;m sure Aslan would have, if you&#8217;d asked him,” said Fledge.<br />
“Wouldn&#8217;t he know without being asked?” said Polly.<br />
“I&#8217;ve no doubt he would,” said the Horse (still with his mouth full). “But I&#8217;ve a sort of idea he likes to be asked.”<br />
The Magician’s Nephew – Chapter 12</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/open-mic-at-the-imonk-cafe-lectionary-lesson-blahs/comment-page-1#comment-516581</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Oct 2009 20:42:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=4874#comment-516581</guid>
		<description>Count me in as another vote for making this a regular feature here. There&#039;s a lot of good collective wisdom in the crowd here that could be put to good use in furthering the Kingdom.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Count me in as another vote for making this a regular feature here. There&#8217;s a lot of good collective wisdom in the crowd here that could be put to good use in furthering the Kingdom.</p>
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		<title>By: K Lo</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/open-mic-at-the-imonk-cafe-lectionary-lesson-blahs/comment-page-1#comment-516578</link>
		<dc:creator>K Lo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Oct 2009 19:02:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=4874#comment-516578</guid>
		<description>I used to think my calling was to be a pastor.  It isn&#039;t.  It never was. My calling is to be a son (Eph 1).   I am being rescued from the former and learning to live in the latter...slowly.

I still have a long way to go.  Recently while praying with some close friends, my friend Kirk had a sense that God wanted to ask me a question.  I said, &quot;Uh, okay...&quot;.  Kirk said, &quot;Jesus wants to know what you would like Him to give you? Not to your church, or to your family, or to your friends...what would you like Jesus to give to you?&quot;

I could not think of a single thing.  I was stunned.  I was also a bit embarassed.
At least when asked by Jesus, Bartimeus had an answer.  We have not because we ask not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I used to think my calling was to be a pastor.  It isn&#8217;t.  It never was. My calling is to be a son (<a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?go=Go&amp;q=Eph+1" class="bibleref" title="ESV Eph 1">Eph 1</a>).   I am being rescued from the former and learning to live in the latter&#8230;slowly.</p>
<p>I still have a long way to go.  Recently while praying with some close friends, my friend Kirk had a sense that God wanted to ask me a question.  I said, &#8220;Uh, okay&#8230;&#8221;.  Kirk said, &#8220;Jesus wants to know what you would like Him to give you? Not to your church, or to your family, or to your friends&#8230;what would you like Jesus to give to you?&#8221;</p>
<p>I could not think of a single thing.  I was stunned.  I was also a bit embarassed.<br />
At least when asked by Jesus, Bartimeus had an answer.  We have not because we ask not.</p>
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