UPDATE II: And now the announcement is that this thread means I believe all theology is equally true. See, I 1) shouldn’t be letting you people tell your stories at all. It’s rejoicing in sin. 2) I should be preaching to all of you because right belief is the answer to everything. 3) and then I should be rejoicing that you all never return to this site again. But at least I witnessed to you.
God forbid that we act like people actually matter. Lord, save us from having to listen to someone’s pain. Just SHUT UP and SHOW ME YOUR CONFESSION. Right?
I’m looking for stories; stories of how relationships were changed for the worse because of theology.
I want commenters to tell- briefly- their stories of how theology caused stress, conflict, change, separation and distance in relationships with spouses, family members, parents, friends, co-workers and/or fellow Christians.
I’m not interested in changes from Christian to atheist, etc. Or in announcing you were gay. I want to know how someone becoming Calvinist changed your relationship. How did someone’s charismatic practices cause rejection? How did your family change their treatment of you when you left the Baptist denomination and became Orthodox? How does a creationist treat a Christian co-worker who is an evolutionist? How did your move to or from Catholicism affect your marriage? Are there people who stopped speaking to you or started evangelizing you when you changed your theology or practice?
That’s the sort of stories I’m looking for. With 40% of Americans changing religions and many moving to and from various theological positions, there’s bound to be a lot of these. Share them. Briefly. In the comments.
I’ve got two of these, one that’s largely in the past and one that’s on-going.
First, when Jesus smacked me upside the head and I became a disciple of his my family was freaked out. To them religion was to be polite, quite, and limited in scope. My sudden immersion into all things Christian created a lot of stress – some of which was my own fault. This has a happy ending, though, because even though my family still doesn’t share my understanding on the call to discipleship, they have come to appreciate the spiritual gifts I have and as the Holy Spirit has matured me I’ve been able to develop a much more gracious and thankful attitude for the blessings of my family. So that stress was good stress in the long-run.
Second, the fact that I don’t listen to Christian radio, listen to Christian music, or tune in to every Christian trend causes me a lot of stress with Evangelicalsâ„¢ – who keep trying to drop names on me hoping that I’ll perk up and eventually “prove” that I’m not a dreaded liberal. It’s tiresome. Usually I just say, “Look, that’s my cup of tea, OK?” Sometimes, when people regurgitate the party line in a way that reveals a complete lack of critical reflection (most recently when someone was spouting off on how God has raised America up because of our righteous dependance on him) – I have to draw the line and say, “Enough, and here’s why.” I’ve stopped going to the local Christian book store for this very reason, it drives me nuts. Is this a bad stress? It certainly can be. Yet, there’s times where I wonder if it’s not stress created by the prophetic impulse. I’ve also found that the relationships that have been strained to the breaking point through this stress (to the point of people leaving the congregation I pastor) have a way of being strengthened in the long-run because people learned to respect the fact that I’ve been honest, and open with them out of a desire to draw them more deeply into the faith. It’s not pretty, and sometimes I wish I could unthinkingly be the happy Evangelicalâ„¢ who touts the party line on everything – but I’m not, and I’ve come to accept the stress it causes.
Oh. my. yes. One BIG example in my life came at a time when i was dealing with some serious relationship issues in my own life. i am a strong continuationist (life experience has left me with no choice in the matter), and the way I was dealing with these problems, whilst never UNbiblical, did not fit the particular grid of these people. When I said I was seeking to follow the Holy Spirit’s leading, I was condemned for not listening to them first (because they, apparently, had more “biblical” wisdom), and they were my leaders (suddenly self-appointed) and who was I to think god would speak to me rather than them? (Since my bible says God can speak through donkeys and what have you, I never did understand that point). In the end, after many painful months of this, including one occasion when I was harangued till 2am, I left that church, and have never regretted it. They had read Jay Adams and decided they were “Competent to Counsel”, I chose to go to a professional christian counsellor, who had some experience in the issues I was dealing with (they did not believe that their ignorance of those issues was any hindrance, because “you know how unbiblical psychology is.” When i said i had obtained the gift of tongues, I was virtually called a liar. In the end, beneath our divisions on the “charismatic” issue, I came to see we had a deeper theological divide. We actually had a different understanding of the character of God. They believed in a God who so hated our sin that we had to be constantly paranoid about certain behaviours (yet oddly, only certain ones) I believed, and still do, ina god I can never pleasein and of myself, because there is no moment when I have totally loved him with my whole being, or fully loved my neighbour as myself. Yet He forgives me lavishly. Ten years later, some of those wounds are still healing.
I left the United Methodist Church when I was eighteen or so, not because I was young and wanted freedom from my folks’ religion, but because the UMC was not teaching me anything, and if I wanted to minister in the UMC, well, I could, after four years of college and four years of graduate school. By then, I figured I no longer would care about church.
I asked the Lord into my heart when I was fifteen or so at a charismatic Foursquare Gospel Church, but I stayed at my parents’ UMC, too. I joined a charismatic Presbyterian mission church after I left the UMC. Pretty much, my folks and I went our separate ways spiritually. My mother dropped out of the UMC for a time. My father dropped out permanently. But my mother is a dyed-in-the-wool United Methodist. I go to her church sometimes, but I can count on two hands the number of times she has come to the churches I have attended. She doesn’t believe in most charismatic dealings. End of story.
Which I dig. But considering the state of the UMC, and what I know she does believe about the Gospel, I keep telling her: Ma, you’ll be happier in a Bible-believing Baptist church!
Short story is we dared to disagree with the “Apostle” and we were assured we would not be welcome if we talked to anyone about this. The whole – do not touch God’s anointed – and threats of our demise if we left their covering rang in our ears as we left. Shunning was practiced and in a day we lost all but two friends – who later also left. Our friendships did not change, they were eradicated.
But here is the kicker Michael…You could certainly say we left over a theological issue(s) but in reality we had to part with this man and his wife because of character – not theology. The character issues of pride, desire for power and control, the inability to tell the truth when it made them look bad and such were the real issues. Theology truly had nothing to do with it and I don’t believe it ever really does. If two humble, teachable men/women have Love in their hearts I don’t believe anything can separate them. But when it becomes more important to one or the other to agree with MY theology instead of loving each other – relationships end.
Moderator Note: This post’s commentary request is quite simple. Anything else will be deleted. I will allow sub-commentary on the stories, but I’m not going to allow the worn out “you shouldn’t be having this discussion” comment.
Going to a Spurgeon-like Calvinistic Baptist church that doesn’t believe in altar calls. All of my friends go to Baptist or Pentecostal churches, and we got into strong conversations about how someone was not a Christian unless he could point to that singular conversion experience where he walked the aisle. One friend even questioned my salvation.
I also got involved with a multi-faith Bible study that had a large number of Orthodox believers. These Orthodox folks had all been evangelicals but left and converted because of the lack of holiness, sacramentalism (just like your last post), and overall the lack of mystery and honor given to God. They had left because of a perceived depth of theology in the Orthodox church.
At the end of my time in High School, our family attended a Baptist Church in Vienna, VA. They were quite wrapped up in what my father calls “service to the saints”, despite my father’s ongoing drive toward discipleship and witnessing. It burned him so badly that by the time he left, my mother forbade him to ever be a deacon again. He’s only just started teaching again within recent years.
I had left even earlier, because the youth group refused to engage in bible study, because “nobody was ready for it yet”, and my increasing impression was that what was being preached didn’t match what the word actually said.
After years of searching and trying and stumbling, I’ve been reading a lot of authors like Bell, Wright, Manning, and it’s quite changed how I see Christianity. As a result, I have to be extremely careful in conversation with my father for fear of offending him, as everything with him is about salvation and bible study, with social justice being a dangerous slippery slope that only leads to pride and away from God.
I was at a birthday party a year or two ago, and there were three people there from a local evangelical church. I mentioned that I had been reading Rob Bell, and I spent the next 45 minutes being grilled by these guys about how Bell was a heretic and Driscoll was the Gospel. It was an extremely hostile time, but I surprised them because I wasn’t interested in arguing, but only discussing what Bell was actually talking about, and how the words we use are very important.
I had an extremely brilliant friend in college who dropped out of the Baptist Church entirely because, at least in Ohio, there was nowhere for an intelligent woman to serve.
I have other friends from the same college (Cedarville, in OH) who dropped out of the church for years over unloving attitudes and a lack of intellectual honesty, especially with regards to political parties. They’re just now, after about 10 years, trying to get back in.
For many, many reasons, I have to try very hard not t be bitter about the church. It’s quite difficult. I do find that the only places I can find to actually have honest conversations with other Christians, if they aren’t pastors, is online. Which severely limits my opportunity for fellowship. If you always have to watch your mouth, then to some degree, you’re always teaching.
I was introduced to Hank Hanegraaf and the Bible Answer Man broadcast by a friend. As I began to learn good theology for the first time, I began to challenge the vague spirituality of my evangelical and charismatic friends. This caused strain in all of my Christian friendships. I eventually gathered new friends who were into theology and apologetics. They led me into Calvinism which led me into despair. I eventually became Lutheran and rejected (semi) Pelagian “decision theology”. I’m frustrated by people’s willingness to defend Joel Osteen, Rick Warren & Rob Bell (and similar teachers). Obviously, I also believe in baptismal regeneration and the sacramental union in the Lord’s Supper. I believe that the Holy Spirit works through the Word, and it’s just zooming around zapping people randomly. All of this has put a huge strain on my friendships, and I’ve lost several friends over it. I’ve been persecuted by unbelievers before, but only since becoming Lutheran have I been persecuted and rejected by other Christians.
This also happened – rejection by other Christians – to me, my wife, and my Mother-in Law, all of which switched from Pentecostalism to the Lutheran Church. For some we have gone to paganism, dead ritual, we are dead. Others just scratch their heads.
Worse yet try to talk real serious theology and people get extremely frustrated, they usually throw up their hands and say well I just believe in Scripture – as if thats not what we have been talking about. Or , “we don’t need all these divisions we all just believe in Jesus.”
Persecuted Lutherans get an extra 10% off at New Reformation Press.
Cute.
I’ll elaborate on one of the lost friendships. One friend of mine goes to a “Baptist” church that is BINO. They’re actually just a generic Christian church with an interest in supporting missionaries. I have no idea what they believe, because my friend wouldn’t tell me. However, this friend was, as a teenager, pulled out of school, forced into homeschooling, head-coverings, ankle-length skirt wearing, homechurch with several other families. It was one of those patriarchal power-trip things where everyone fears and obeys the fathers. This went on for several years until she ran off and got married. Her parents eventually came out of that cultish setting and are normal evangelicals now. But my friend is still recovering from this. And, as the pendulum swings, she has taken the opposite extreme. She has gone as far as to say that the bible doesn’t teach women to submit to men. I showed her with a Greek lexicon that it says “be subject to”. She disagreed and showed me every manner of obscure website with terrible exegesis and lies to defend her position. She virtually crosses out words in her bible that she doesn’t like and replaces them with what her itching years want to hear. I and another friend both told her that she was wrong. After this, it was all downhill. She stopped talking to me, so I told her “goodbye”. I couldn’t take the silent treatment anymore and I needed closure.
What’s “BINO” ???
I mean, my first guess was “Baptist in name only”, but since you say “I have no idea what they believe” how could it mean that — how would you know?
My friend told me that the church was Baptist in name only. I don’t know what my friend believes because she always clammed up when I asked specific questions.
My wife & I are missionaries supported through donations from others. One of our biggest donors, who happened to be a family member, found that I would not publicly denouncing the whole emerging church conversation as heretical. The result was a full withdrawal of their financial support and an almost complete shunning of us socially. While sad & painful (especially in respect to lost relationship), it was their money to do with as they please. It left us in a very rough place for some time, but God provided.
Peace,
Jamie
When my wife’s parents left Catholicism they were cut off from some of their family (namely my wife’s great-grandparents) for years…it’s only been in the last few years that they will have anything to do with us.
Similarly I’ve got some horror stories regarding another person close to us who eats up the John Hagee style ‘death to Arabs/Muslims’ mantra and vindicates anything done by the Israeli nation-state. As someone who grew up amongst Arab Muslims & Christians in the Middle East, this perspective is absolutely sickening to me, and it makes things quite tense sometimes.
Especially when to the “John Hagee style” neither Arabs or Israelis are people — only pieces to move about the End Time Prophecy gameboard.
That’s why I call Christian Zionism (TM) “Anti-Semitic Zionism”.
Oh yeah, I wasn’t on board when the pastor of my old church started power tripping, stealing materials from another church, dictating every aspect of the service, etc…he severed ties to local congregations in favor of American ‘oversight’ with a fringe denomination, and later we discovered he had been in an affair for years…he’s still at the church.
Another pastor I disappeared from as quickly as possible was milking the church for luxury goods/vacations (and wondering why the church financials weren’t quite matching up…tax free vacations and the like on the church credit card….). And I’m sorry, but I have little patience for self-appointed experts in all areas of life who have done nothing but preach pablum for 20 years. This guy is not the final authority on science, history, theology, psychology or sociology, but many in his congregation treated him as such….I couldn’t voice anything in opposition without it being perceived as a personal attack, so I just left quietly.
At a prominent bible college in Australia I’ve got dozens of anecdotes from my own life and my friends’ of people who are 2 and 3-tiers down from the main leaders, and rather than trying to follow the Spirit, they attempt to emulate the behaviors of the leaders sans heart change. The result was arrogance and a force that drove anyone that wasn’t a ‘true believer’ far, far away.
Finally, a pastor at a local megachurch in the States, when I asked him about their 4th of July extravaganza, explained that why the pastors understood that Americanism isn’t Christianity, the congregation wouldn’t and there were some areas in which the church must capitulate to culture.
Bulls–t.
Sorry, didn’t really highlight the theology of that last one, but the common thread is that I don’t buy a theology that involves pastors holding a dictatorial-like power over their congregants, nor one that holds lay leaders over their volunteers, nor one that holds one nation-state over others.
If that’s the gospel, I’d really rather have no part in it.
I saw a small group fall apart at another church when the conversation became dominated by Calvinism. I was on the Calvinist side at the time, back when I thought it was the only answer to the semi-pelagianism that I had experienced in my life up to that point. Hind sight, it was a pointless argument.
I saw a another small group at a Lutheran church fall apart when the conversation became dominated by dispensationalism. I was on the Lutheran side, while the “lifer” Lutherans were into the LeHaye-style end times dispensationalism. After a while, there just were better things to do than face that every week. I guess I should have shrugged it off.
I think in both cases, I turned bad church experiences from my past into thelological lines in the sand that I was not going back across to experience the same things again, even if it meant walking away from fellowship. But my past experiences had nothing to do with where the other group members were at the time, or where the group was going. It was a slippery slope fallacy.
Arguing theology can easily become a substitute for living ones faith. There’s a safety in it. It becomes almost like an armor that will stop people from hurting you. It prevents you from taking risks with people. Sounds pretty messed up. I think I’m getting better at listening to differing opinions of others, even when those opinions touch raw nerves in my past. I’m sure some of my opinions touch raw nerves in other people.
Dear Michael,
A question: can the story be about something that started out poorly and ended with a reconcilation of sorts?
sure
I was raised in a non-religious household, but came to Christ at a fundamentalist summer camp when I was about 12. My parents and I had very difficult shouting matches about religion for the next few years, with me telling them that there was such a thing as Absolute Truth and if they did not sign up for it they were going to hell.
I married fairly young. My wife and I were both conservative evangelicals. We have been married almost 30 years, and I am seriously questioning everything from the existence of a personal God on up. My theology is getting more liberal by the day, as are my political views. My wife, on the other hand, remains a 6-day-creationist, Rush-Limbaugh-loving, King-James-favoring Christian.
We used to agree on everything. Now, if we talk about religion or politics, not only will we disagree but there is a very good chance that the conversation will turn ugly. This has put a great strain on our marriage. I wish we could disagree respectfully and amicably, but it seems that for every healthy conversation we have a blow-up.
My wife says she feels afraid for me, and also feels all alone. She says I have allowed myself to be influenced by the wrong people. I see my journey as a search for the truth and I can no longer wall myself off from people of other persuasions. I, too, feel alone and wish I could at least have someone close to me to discuss these things with. In addition to my wife, nearly all of my good friends are evangelicals and almost without exception they are unwilling to discuss the issues on their merits. To them, it’s all about my prideful spirit, my being under attack by Satan, etc..
How ironic: As an adolescent I put my parents through hell because of my conservative theology and now, just at the time my own children are adolescents, my liberal theology is putting my marriage through hell.
I won’t tell you to wall-off people of other persuasions, but I hope you will stay in the Word. nuff said.
IM, you can delete this if it’s inappropriate.
Larry: I know a lot of people who are at a point on the journey where a number of the doctrines they grew up with are suddenly open to negotiation. I think part of the reason involves the church culture we all grew up with.
However, I would urge you to make a list of the things you still hold to; the things where you and your wife would have agreement; the things about God and Jesus you would consider the non-negotiables. Show the list to your wife, and say, “This is what I’m beginning with.”
Then reconstruct everything else from that foundation and see if the pieces of the puzzle fit; if your individual doctrines can form a workable theology, the way puzzle pieces form a complete picture.
Even if the finished picture has some holes or some incomplete corners — and, if they’re honest, everyone has a few of those — what you have at the end will be something you can take ownership of, and you can continue to do ‘renovations’ as the need arises.
Oh my! Where to begin??
For so long, I was the one who’s cock-suredness led to argument and separation, and I supported leadership who used issues of theology and authority to “discipline” the wayward.
But a few years back I began a journey down the path of grace and increasing willingness to acknowledge my own brokenness. Along the way, I have been tremendously helped by a variety of writers and thinkers, and by formerly “out-of-bounds” practices such as listening and healing prayer, and counseling. I also came to a place where I could no longer accept the Penal Substitution view of the atonement, favoring instead a Christus Victor understanding.
I suppose I should have kept the growth I was experiencing to myself, but I couldn’t help including what I considered to be helpful quotes in the signature line of my emails. Several months ago, a relatvie (by marriage) took issue with the source of one of those quotes, insisting that I should disavow the author. I gave a mild defense, and indicated that I would continue to support and promote that book and author. The reply was even more heated, and pointed to several “heresies” that had been discovered in the author’s writings. I replied that I didn’t consider those to be heresies, and shared a couple of other ideas I had besides. Big mistake! The next response was through the roof, and it was apparent that the conversation was going nowhere, so I wrote back that it was clear that we disagreed, that maybe I was wrong in my views, but that I valued the relationship more than a theological position. “Could we agree to disagree?”
It’s been six weeks, and there’s been no response. Seems I need to call this person up and offer to meet for coffee sometime, since we’re only less than an hour away from one another. Will he be willing to reciprocate? Has he just written me off as a heretic?
Many years ago, I heard the following poem by Edwin Markham, liked it, and filed it away. Only in these recent months has it actually become my own story:
He drew a circle that shut me out;
Heretic, rebel, a thing to flout.
But love and I had the wit to win;
We drew a circle that took him in.
“I suppose I should have kept the growth I was experiencing to myself, but I couldn’t help including what I considered to be helpful quotes in the signature line of my emails.”
Bad idea. I’ve found the time to share challenging ideas is when people ask to hear what your are thinking, and not when you want them to know what you’re thinking.
I have a bunch of these stories. Unfortunately, quite a few of them have had to do with me deciding that I was right, they were wrong, and the love of God in this case couldn’t overcome their wrongness. (Nowadays, the argument swings the other direction—I’m being too loving, or too forgiving, or too accepting of heretics, simply because I think seeing the fruit of the Spirit in a person’s life trumps whether they have all their theological ducks in a row.)
Currently my issue is with an old friend who became a Christian and has since joined what I call a “cult.” I don’t mean that in Walter Martin’s sense of a pseduo-Christian heresy; they’re not heretics. I mean that in the sociologist’s sense of a self-isolated group that professes strong devotion to the every whim of a certain pastor. It’s basically a church where “but Pastor says” is their excuse for any odd theology… and the odd behaviors that stem from it.
Because I have dared to point out that occasional things Pastor says aren’t entirely consistent with things Jesus teaches, or general scriptural principles, he doesn’t feel he can speak with me. What I’m doing isn’t constructive criticism, or encouraging scriptural accountability; it’s “sowing discord.”
If your theology lets you believe your pastor is infallible, I think discord would be reasonably coming from the Holy Spirit. But that’s just me.
Currently my issue is with an old friend who became a Christian and has since joined what I call a “cult.†I don’t mean that in Walter Martin’s sense of a pseduo-Christian heresy; they’re not heretics. I mean that in the sociologist’s sense of a self-isolated group that professes strong devotion to the every whim of a certain pastor.
I believe the formal term for this is “Aberrant Christian Group”.
The Walter Martin definition of “cult” really messed up a lot of people like me in the Seventies who found themselves in similarly rigid and abusive groups. The Christian cult watchers of the period defined “cult” only by theology and doctrine a la Martin; Christian groups with orthodox theology (usually hardcore Evangelical) but cultic-abusive behavior slipped under their radar. Many of these abusive groups used their theological status (i.e. Proof We’re NOT A Cult) as a further weapon to abuse their congregations.
My blowup with the abusive group came in 1976 when (1) my widowed father remarried, My Christian Brethren (TM) did not approve and high-pressured me to “be discipled” at their “Compound”, and (2) I discovered Dungeons & Dragons and got to see one of the origins of the later Satanic Panic.
Since then, my main “Theology Changed Relationships” horror stories have to do with Uber-Culture Warriors and Young Earth Creationists. (Outside of specifically-Christian horror stories, I encountered something similar from my “Apple Akbar!” Mackinista ex-friends when I switched my home system from Mac to Windows PC. It aint’ just theology that gets the “Die, Heretic!” reactions.
I live in the same community I grew up in. I’ve known my best friend, Y., and her family since I was a kid. Y.’s family, charismatic Protestants, were loving and affectionate, with the kind of Christian family that made me wish I lived with them instead of with my own secular, dysfunctional home. Her parents provided me a refuge of love and joy, and I spent many happy after-school hours at her house. It was her influence that led me to come to know Jesus in college. I ended up becoming a Catholic, and my best friend was very supportive, with never a bad word to say about Catholic doctrine or practice. Her family, and her husband-to-be’s family, were both influential at their church, and both families invited me often to prayer gatherings and church services, but Y. never showed a trace of disappointment that I didn’t join her church.
Then a few years after we graduated from college, both of us married, Y. suddenly became bizarrely hostile to my Catholicism, asking the kind of “How does *that* thing square with the Bible?” question that I associated with evangelizing cranks. I tried to explain as best I could, but soon came to dread her frequent requests to meet and talk about faith.
One day she shared with me that she had become interested in Catholicism, and that was the reason for the interrogations. I knew there had been a lot of tensions and unhappiness in her church, and that she and others had been thinking of leaving, but I was completely blindsided; I’d really thought until then that she had suddenly become convinced that *I* had to be made to see the unscripturality of Catholicism. I agreed to sponsor her through RCIA, and she is today joyfully happy as a Catholic.
But the whole thing was frankly miserable for me. Her parents, when I would run into them, were distantly polite, and clearly felt they had reared a serpent in their bosoms. Several other members of her Church, friends of hers, followed her into Catholicism (a few went to Orthodoxy), and I discovered I’d gained the reputation as “The woman who converted Y. to Rome.” Friends of hers who had once shown me great kindness at their church now sarcastically congratulated me and told me how happy I must be at having made such a catch. I still get cornered by her father-in-law who gives me articles showing me the truth about Catholicism and wants to have private discussions with me about doctrine.
I’m glad she’s happy, and I love her dearly, but there’s many a day still when part of me wishes to God she’d stayed a Protestant.
I still get cornered by her father-in-law who gives me articles showing me the truth about Catholicism and wants to have private discussions with me about doctrine.
“The Truth(TM) about Catholicism(TM)” as in Nimrod, Semiramis, Tammuz, Mystery Babylon, Satanic Death Cookies, Pope as Antichrist, and Maria Monk? (At least the other Truthers — the 9/11 guys — come up with something original once in a while…)
My wife was raised in the Christian Reformed Church. She was “re-baptized” just before we were married. Needless to say, that did not go over well.
Theology has definitely caused a decrease in the number of topics that some of my long term women friends and I can talk about.
One whom I met when I was still a good Southern Baptist, and we clicked right away. But, as my journey has cause my theology to expand and to include ideas that I previously rejected. Her journey has been the opposite, she seems much narrower in ideas such as 6 24 hour days of creation, dispensationalism.
So, on those issues, and frequently on things that might get us in that neighborhood, we just don’t talk.
We still have a pretty good friendship, under the circumstances ( being 3 time zones apart helps).
On the positive side, my journey has helped me be more open to my cousins who have rejected the church all together. (The openness goes both ways, but I let them take the lead in the conversation. We all have scars from evangelical over zealousness.)
Very simple. The day I became a Biblical Unitarian and renounced the Doctrine of the Trinity. Try it if you want to live the life of a refugee.
When my brother converted to Judaism, that caused a big strain. Even though he tries to be respectful of his Christian family members and we try to be respectful of him (even to the point of planning stuff around the Sabbaths and keeping some kosher food on hand), there’s a horrible truth where in a spiritual sense we’re no longer brothers. The most important things to me can’t be shared with him in the same way anymore. And vice versa. We can still have open religious dialogue. But we can’t relate on a family-level spirituality anymore.
Plus, his hostility toward Christ is pretty obvious, even when we’re having civil discussion. And honestly, I’ve got a certain amount of hostility toward rabbinic Judaism because I’ve seen too many people seduced away from Christ by its simple live-the-checklist-of-commandments legalism. My hostility should probably be toward the churches and church leaders that gave these folks a legalistic approach to Christianity to in the first place. After all, it’s not like Judaism being legalistic hasn’t been the established norm since the 1st century or earlier. And it’s not like Judaism went looking for converts. Judaism doesn’t really do that. But when family is envolved, it’s kind of hard to keep an objective perspective at times.
My folks think his hostility toward Christ is evidence that he’s not 100% at peace with Judaism’s faith claims and that Jesus is still working on him. I don’t know. That’s above my pay grade. All I know is that I hate the barrier that’s between us because of those major theological differences.
I was weak in the Christian faith of my childhood. I tried to get my atheist husband to believe in Christ. My attempts to practice Christianity had failed by 2004.
As I was not strong on my own,I turned and followed my husband into materialism/atheism/nihilsim. I permitted my husband to take my daughters to “Sunday School” at a “non-creedal” Unitarian Church. I abdicated my children’s spiritual lives to my husband. I had become a “freethinker”, a.k.a., “nothing.”
Through the Unitarian Church I became aquainted with New Age followers. My husband and I started to follow New Age thought. Energy healers and yogis became our advisors and healers; our gurus. They told us how special and gifted we were. Clarivoyant, in fact.
Within two years my marriage was destroyed. (I admit the marriage was flawed begin with.) My husband has gone on in two short years to become a “teacher” and “leader” in a New Age intentional community. To these people he presents a facade of “love and light.” Privately he treats me like dirt. I am facing a divorce trial next week against powerful lawyers paid for by his Fortune 500 company.
We have 2 children ages 8 and 12.
After picking up the pieces of my destroyed life and family, I walked away from the New Age when I saw that their teachings didn’t hang together logically. I started to read Greek philosophy and it led me to the Bible. I returned to the Catholic church. I started reading the Bible to my kids. My oldest daughter responded to the teaching of Christ as if this was the Truth, even while I was still wavering. It was stunning to see the faith of this child.
I am a devout Catholic now and have few friends. The community I live in is urban and liberal. The old neighbors and “friends” are all secular, atheist or New Age. Even friends who stood by me are fading into the background because I no longer can relate to someone who believes in hedonism as a way of life. I haven’t told them off or anything, I’ve just gradually let go.
Since my 12 year old has become a *self-professed* Christian Catholic, my husband has accused her of becoming brainwashed. He will not permit her to attend Mass on Sundays when she is with him. Instead he forces her to attend Unitarian Sunday School where most of the children are atheist or agnostic and these views are heavily espoused. My daughter complains bitterly to me.
I’ve made many mistakes and following New Age was just one of many. All this talk of “spirituality” without religion. What does it mean? For me it meant thinking I had a foundation without checking to see what exactly it was. Truthfully, when I finally looked I found “nothing under my feet.” I am sorry about the breakup of my marriage, but I would rather be a single mom-led Christian family, than live in the emotional and philosophical desert that was my husband, our marriage and our family.
this is a great testimony. i will pray for you and i believe that even though your journey has been difficult, the Lord has been with you every step of the way. Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life. and your story embodies this.
alvin
Yes He is the Way. Bless you, Alvin, your words are comforting to me at this difficult time.
A friendship almost shattered when my friend discovered I was not a YEC. After an evening of tense discussion we luckily decided our friendship was more important. But we never spoke about creationism/evolution again, and when my friend says something like: ‘It’s proven the speed of light is not constant because there are bumps in the red-shift’, I’ll look the other way instead of engaging.
All of my family have left our home church (plymouth brethren, closed). My parents became members of a pretty openly charismatic church. Three of my brothers are baptist or attend other evangelical churches. One brother does not attend church nor professes faith in God any more. And I do attend a pretty large evangelical church, but am recently rethinking what church means (institution or reality?). I’m more and more leaning to the ‘organical church view’ (Frank Viola, Wayne Jacobson).
This leads to some strain in my relationship with my parents. Their church is not sectarian, but their theology is really ‘covering’ based: the authority of the pastor is very important, especially to my mother. She views the great sin of the plymouth brethren that there was no pastor over the congregation. She tells me I have to stay in a church, and accept the authority of a pastor or else I will surely go astray in my walk as a christian. On other subjects we agree, but this is hard for me. I do wonder how she will react should I leave my large, institutional church and seek fellowship in a smaller circle. One of the things that keeps me going to church is this, even though I know that ‘who looks back when he’s at the plow, is not worthy of the kingdom’.
Johan
Actually I agree with Barb that in most of these stories, it is flawed character rather than theology that is the culprit — the idea that what we believe, know, and say is more important than how we live.
Michael mentioned in his latest podcast a pastor friend of his who was forced out of his church for no reason at all.
About two years ago I witnessed something like this, and the people involved are entirely on the same page theologically — its just that some folks (leaders and followers both) are not very good at living their theology (and are in denial of that fact). And to support their chosen course of action they engaged in lying, gossip, and manipulation.
Character, not theology.
My sister is no longer Catholic and indeed, she is married to a Church of Ireland minister. My relationship with my sister hasn’t been broken, but the potential for breaking is there. Frankly, to avoid the stress, I keep my mouth shut about matters of theology. As in, I say nothing and avoid any discussions of religion or our two traditions.
It’s not a case of blaming my brother-in-law for causing her to fall away or anything like that; the story is packed with irony. My sister actually tested her vocation in the local convent and went as far as making her temporary vows (that is, she went through postulancy and the novitiate and started on the three year period of temporary vows before taking final vows). She left and eventually ended up as a house parent in a Steiner School/Residential Centre in the North of Ireland, where she met my (future) brother-in-law. So blame the Anthroposophists!
Early on, I made some jokes about the Protestant versus Catholic versions of the Bible to my sister (as jokes, purely, and not as stealth-evangelising) and she related them to him, and I felt that they made him uncomfortable or could be perceived as criticism, which made *me* uncomfortable, so I kept my mouth shut from then on in. Matters were not helped by my father becoming increasingly devout in his old age and, for example, regaling my brother-in-law with tales of Eucharistic miracles gleaned from watching EWTN
But yes – even in what we refer to him as: she (and he) would say he’s a priest in the Church of Ireland. I have a completely different notion of what a priest is, and would refer to him as a minister or a vicar or a rector (he is now the incumbent of a new parish, so he’s the rector of the church there).
The irony is that he has a High Church, or Anglo-Catholic, or however you want to describe it, tendency, which probably makes for *more* tension than if he were Low Church. His views on the Eucharist would be more sacramental, which bang right up against my views. Again, this is something I haven’t discussed because I don’t want it to degenerate into an arguement and break off all contact with my sister; but if push came to shove, while he might consider that he celebrates Mass, I don’t. See the potential for a real screaming row there?
Again, the irony is that if my sister were still Catholic, I’d still probably be disagreeing with her. My mother became more liberal later in life, and she and my sister agreed better on things, while I’m extremely conservative in some matters. For example, my mother was more or less appalled that Cardinal Ratzinger had become Pope, while I was happy enough; I’d have loved to see Cardinal Arinze elected, but I had no objections to der Panzerkardinal
And to make things even more fun, my brother-in-law, as I said, comes from the North of Ireland, from a small town that was in an Orange heartland. When interviewing for his latest move, he had one interview in the North and, as my sister put it, “When we went there, you could see the Orange Hall on the left, the church in the middle, and the police station on the right. So we were just as happy he didn’t get it.”
If I regard him as Protestant, his potential parishioners would regard him with equal suspicion for having married (1) a Southerner (2) a Catholic Southerner (never mind that she’s ex-Catholic) (3) his children have Irish names! (named after Irish Celtic saints Fiachra and Éanna) (4) sacramentalist tendencies just prove creeping Romanism and Gaelicism – next thing he’ll be preaching the Pope and drinking the Devil’s Buttermilk in public!
So yeah – a lot of potential grief there.
When I moved away from Christianity towards deism/unitarianism, my family and those among my friends who were believers in Christianity were for the most part sad and concerned, but largely supportive of me. As I begin to find myself moving towards a theology which is more inclusive of Christianity, I find a lot of my friends and family who are not Christian to feel a sense of betrayal. But all of this seems pretty slight, overall- I try very hard to embrace the notion that my path is just my own, and the general rules of the game (kindness, forgiveness, humilty, love, openness, willingness to share etc) apply regardless of what theology I have- so I am hoping that as long as I keep and grow in those principles of right relationship, my relationships with my loved ones will not suffer. I suspect my relationships with strangers will always be subject to some tension when our beliefs don’t align.
Left one church after the pastor (who had no seminary training) started teaching that our bodies weren’t saved yet, even if we were, and that our (corrupt) bodies were the locus for and cause of all human sin. In other words, he was taking one giant step toward dualism. I approached him privately to let him know that this was not a healthy or scriptural theological view of the human person, and to delineate the sorts of things it could lead to. He simply didn’t want to hear it. We went back and forth for some time, but he wouldn’t budge (he never could explain how the view he was promulgating fit with Romans 12:1 and other passages, etc.). I still have friends who go to that church and we still talk, but not generally about theology. I know seminary training varies, but it’s experiences like this that make me still recommend it.
Within my own family, there is a definite, though not hostile, divide between the reformed/calvinist/socially conservatives and the not-so-taken-with-calvinism/socially moderate to liberals.
Well, my wife’s uncle took several years to decide that I was saved. He kept asking me any of several questions to see whether I really was a Christian or not.
Well, you not only swam the Tiber but the Adriatic…
I was raised Catholic and when I left the church (I’m Presbyterian) my parents and rest of my family sort of freaked. My mother came to me and brought a bunch of Catholic Answers material. To this day (that was about 10 years ago) my wife and I are the odd ones out at family get togethers. My mom (a very devout Catholic) buys Catholic gifts for everyone on Christmas (like rosaries, books on the saints, statues etc) but awkwardly only gives us secular gifts. My Dad will randomly mix into conversation how the Catholic church is the only true church.
But we are all getting through it ok. They still love me and I still love them.
My best friend’s wife was incredibly rude to my pastor because she (the pastor) is a woman. It was at my father-in-law’s funeral, and I was shocked that even there theological differences would get in the way of basic human civility.
Back when I more or less thought all Christians were brainwashed, cruel hypocrites, I wouldn’t let my daughter go with my brother-in-law and his family to their church events. I know it hurt their feelings, but I didn’t want my kid ‘brainwashed’ by any of their beliefs. And their agenda did include evangelism and conversion.
I was raised oneness pentecostal, and am now Roman Catholic. Said simply, I am now going to hell for idolatry and many other holy crimes. The end.
According to my family, I should say.
My step-dad was raised Catholic, but was attending a four square church when he married my mom. It was really awkward when he rediscovered his Catholicism after he married my mom. We went to mass for first service, then we went to Sunday school at our Evangelical Presbyterian church. I then went to college and began attending a Calvinistic Southern Baptist church. I think my mom still secretly wants to be Missouri-synod Lutheran like she was raised but she still takes my little brother to the Presbyterian church. My sisters are at a fairly emergent community church and really resent the months where we went to Catholic mass.
1) I was attending a Bible Church when I came to faith, and was baptized by the pastor of the Bible Church. Later, I could no longer hold to Dispensationalism, which causes a slight rift between me and my Uncle. Additionally, I cannot join most Bible churches as a member or a minister because I do not hold to Dispensationalism. Now that I am a Baptist, my baptism in a Bible Church causes some problems for others who think I need to be baptized again, in a baptist church – an act I refuse to do because my theology of baptism is that it is a one-time act in response to Christ, not a hoop for membership.
2) Two of my friends were baptized into the Greek Orthodox Church a year ago. The greatest tension comes out of the fact that my friends and I share the same background – non-protestant, evangelical Baptistic churches. However, their theology is focused more on the Orthodox Church, namely that to be a full Christian you need to be part of this church. Their baptism supports this, since they had already had believer baptism and were now baptized into the church. The unspoken, possibly even unconscious, implication of their baptism is that there was something lacking in their first baptism, and therefore something lacking in mine. I don’t view their joining the church as a conversion, THEY WERE ALREADY CHRISTIANS! They hold that view as well, but, theologically, believe that you need to be a part of the Orthodox Church to experience the Christian life to the fullest. We remain friends, but have to leave discussions of theology or the church out.
I’m surprised more people haven’t brought up re-baptism. For Methodists, it’s very hurtful and problematic when someone in the family is baptized a second time; for example, as they join a Baptist church.
When I walked away from Dispensationalism -with its view of the people of God, its eschatology, its hermeneutic, and all the rest – I was told by a couple people that denying that type of theology made my beliefs heretical. Not ‘you should reconsider’, not ‘well I think there are good reasons to hold dispensational views’, nope, heretical.
I no longer can talk to my calvinist friend about anything closely related to theology. It can never be a discussion with him. There is no room for it. Whenever we even begin to talk about church or any sort of theology I walk away feeling beat down & judged. The weird thing is I don’t even think he realizes what he is doing to my heart. So lately I just quickly find ways to change subjects. But it makes me not even want to be around him. Its tough
I think IMonk refers to this as the “Calvinist Cage Stage”, when they’re so On Fire With The TRUTH they’re better off locked in a cage where they can’t harm anybody.
My writing partner (a burned-out pastor in rural Pennsylvania) has frequent run-ins these days with what he calls “Hyper-Calvinists” — so far into Utter Predestination that to them even God is utterly restricted by Predestination. (Leading to what he calls “Socratic Atheism”, i.e. God is not God, Fate/Destiny/Predestination is. Or Calvin is.) This also gets mixed with Total Depravity worm theology, manifesting in Utter Glee that God Hath Predestined Them (never Me) to Hell. (He says original Calvinists taught Predestination unto Salvation, these guys are stuck on Predestination unto Damnation.)
He has to preach against that a LOT these days. I heard him teach against it at a Wed nite Bible Study last time I visited him.
To those whose parents have caused hurt. To be fair, when you raise a child in what you think is the true religion, true christianity – and invest the time in such, it is remarkably difficult to see them change to another church. It stands, in a way, in judgement against the parents, their church, and often their whole family line – almost as if the children are saying the parents have been living a lie.
I look at my three year old daughter and pray she will remain Christian and hopefully in the church of her parents. Its scary, and I can see how it would hurt parents really bad, even causing some to lash out.
Raised Baptist by my parents, sent to Christian schools by my family, worked at a Bible bookstore at their insistence. However, my still-Christian parents are surprised and now bristle that a) I work in full-time ministry and b) that I am a missionary in Western Europe. The Theology issue? That I’m being “too pushy” in my faith (they don’t believe in the Great Commission) and that I’m “taking my faith too seriously” (in their impression of American Christianity, I should be pursuing fame, success, money, and material goods). The result? They have pulled away almost completely; give it another 1-2 years and I will most likely never hear from them again.
Incidentally, when we were fundraising as missionaries at various churches, I actually had people in the church that their pastor had allowed us to speak at approach us and honestly say, “I don’t believe God would send any Christian out of America, His chosen country.” Since we were raised SBC but not sent by the IMB, many of our SBC friends were put off that we were fundraising, as if IMB was the only valid way to go into missions.
Wow! I guess I lead charmed life with my family and friends. Perhaps it comes from a family that started out with a mix of religions (Fa is Jewish, Ma is Baptist). We attended here and there as children. After the folks split up, I lived with Fa. When in high school, I converted to Catholicism. It did not, at the time, affect my relationship with anyone in the family (other than some Pentecostal aunts who I barely knew). General view was, well, if you’re happy there, that’s fine. About 5 or so years ago I converted to Judaism. Again, no one in my family even blinked. It didn’t disturb my Catholic husband one iota (mind you, he’s not been to Mass for anything other than a special occasion for a decade or more).
I do think my relationship with Fa has been rekindled as I talk to him a lot more especially for advice and tips on practical Jewish living. He’s thrilled that his granddaughter will be reared in his faith.
None of my friendships were affected, but then my friendships don’t really involve issues of faith anyway. We’re friends because we share a common interest in electronics, or nature or running or whatever. While I do think one’s religion should affect one’s actions and ethics, I’m not of the opinion that it should be the entire focus of one’s life such that a conversation that doesn’t veer off into matters of faith is the exception and not the rule.
I don’t even know how to get started with this.
We’ll start with the fact that the atheist/Christian divide has repeatedly and painfully intruded into the family. Impossible to even imagine progress.
A minister of music at a church I served totally changed his treatment of me when I preached about John 14:6. He believed non-Christians were saved if they sincerely practiced their religion and considered me a fundamentalist for disagreeing.
In my current place of service, relationships have changed 1) since my wife became a Catholic and 2) in regard to the fact I am not a Ham/Hovind creationist. I was actually confronted about 2) by a co-worker last year and it has deeply affected a relationship. 1) has had MAJOR implications, but I can’t write about them.
Theological opinions I express at IM constantly come up with some co-workers. I never talk about them unless specifically asked, but some good people are in constant state of agitation over something I’ve said. I’m monitored in everything I write by several people.
I’ve been subject to the continuing discussion of my employment discussed in reference to Calvinism, even though I am not a Calvinist, haven’t been since 06, and the place is crawling with Calvinists. I was called in because I once preached on I Thess 1:6, basically saying God loves you.
A church I used to serve has turned on me completely over Calvinism, even though I’m not a Calvinist and wasn’t when I was there.
When I began my second round of stated supply preaching in a PC(USA) church in the county, the Baptist church I am a member of removed me as a Sunday School teacher. In a vote in a business meeting! (I now attend there most Sundays, and the guy who led the charge acts like it never happened.) The pastor at that time went on a vendetta against me saying I was a Presbyterian. This church had been using Baptist pulpit supplies from our ministry for 30 years, including previous administrators. But somehow the fact that I was doing it was controversial.
My wife’s conversion to Catholicism was the most devastating event in my life. It almost destroyed my faith. I’ll never be the same. The response of other Christians to what we went through was a stunning revelation of what matters to church folk.
The fact that I am not caught up in the Fox News/Anti-Obama universe is a current issue with co-workers, but that’s not really theology.
Hey Michael,
Thanks for sharing this, If you don’t mind me asking, I wanted to ask you what was so devastating for you about your wife’s conversion to Catholicism? Was it the theology that you disagreed with, or that your wife would be attending another church, or the responses of other christians or what? have you written about this elsewhere?
Thanks
My wife and I do not discuss those issues on the net, by mutual agreement. As I said, folks are monitoring what I say.
The largest aspect of the crisis for me was that I can no longer serve in a typical SBC church. So when I leave my current assignment, I’ll be unable to go to another SBC church unless it’s very unusual, and I’m too old to start over in another church. So her move has major implications for me. That causes me severe theological bitterness.
See you at a Wal Mart near you. I’ll be the over educated greeter
I did write about this when it happened, but almost lost my job for doing so.
IMonk, you not only physically resemble my writing partner (the burned-out country preacher), you even have a lot of the same problems he has. Not the wife-swam-the-Tiber one, but the church-lady monitoring of everything you say, the job-on-thin-ice one, being too old to start over in another church, and the future prospects of “over-educated WalMart greeter”.
Well, IMonk, you definitely have a writing gift (or maybe it’s a thinking and articulating gift, with the writing being the end product.) I would hope there will be employment for you somewhere. I sure find your writing compelling.
I have been studying the Catholic Church, and my family found out via my blog which I had mainly started to get some dialogue. I have never strayed from the faith my parents raised me with, and even just three years prior (as a 19 year old) my dad claimed of me “You are the most spiritually mature of all my children; even more than me.” At Christmas last year, before I stepped on the plane, my step-mom gave me a letter with a copy of “More Than A Carpenter’s Son” saying inside “I hope this year you truly find Jesus and don’t give into the trappings of religion.” I felt a good amount of belittlement and separation there. The thing, though, that makes me most sad is that they are not willing to ask me about it. They talk to everyone else in my family about it, but not me. Not even to ask if I am considering becoming Catholic or just studying its beliefs. My brother’s also believe that the Catholic Church is the Whore of Babylon from Revelation and is only sustained by the powers of the devil for its part in the “end times.” No one has been harsh, but I know that if I do cross that river, responses won’t be kindly for the most part.
I am an evangelical preacher with a son who is engaged to a Roman Catholic gal, and I’m trying to sort this out right now. My son and I have had fairly good discussions together about Roman Catholicism and Scripture, but there are some areas of evangelical theology he is questioning such as whether Christian believers are immediately enter heaven after death or if there is some kind of purgatory experience. I think that he has explored some other areas of Roman Catholic theology, but to my knowledge that is the one area that he is questioning. As far as I know he still holds to salvation by grace through faith, and trusts in Christ alone for salvation. But, my concern is that his theology may be further eroded by what I would consider false teaching, and what he would merely consider exploration of his faith and an increased understanding of where his fiance is coming from. So, that’s an area of tension for me. To be honest, at times, I ask myself if I’m an effective teacher or not. If my own son is questioning what I think of as basic biblical theology what about the rest of the people in my congregation? But, I also realize that people have different routes of faith exploraration, so I will try my best to keep the discussions open with my son, but I have to be very careful how I interact with and question him or he becomes defensive.
Coming from a charismatic background (and not completely renouncing it), for years I struggled with being treated as intellectually inferior by my high Calvinist friends. I got a lot of respect from them when it came to other disciplines, but theology? Being a moron was the only possible explanation. Now that we are all 5+ years out of college, married with mortgages and several young children, this irksome distinction is pretty much gone (thankfully).
There is a lot of pain on this page.
Yes, there is much pain on this page,
but also something very endearing: evidence that people are willing to go through much to seek Christ in a way that is meaningful to them.
We certainly were created differently and there has to be, at some point in our lives, an effort to seek out our own faith with integrity. That may lead us in a direction that we had not expected. We may be surprised by where we find Him. Or where He finds us.
So don’t be upset by restlessness, a wanting more and more to know of God.
As Augustine said,
‘Our hearts are restless until they rest in Thee’.
You will know you are ‘home’ when you experience the peace that is beyond all understanding.
I was raised as an “independent” Baptist. The first church I attended as an adult was “independent” Charismatic. I flirted with Catholicism after meeting some people (20 years ago) in the pro-life movement.
Then I went back to a (very popular group of churches founded in California in the sixties) where the leadership claimed “the authority of Moses” and preached that anyone criticizing them was in danger of being swallowed up by the ground.
Then I walked away from God for 15 years. I cannot begin to measure the pain or count the number of broken relationships. I’m now in a PCA Church and actually happy in Christ for the first time in my life. A prideful unwillingness to engage with others and to learn from others has utterly poisoned American Christianity. May God have mercy on us all.
When I talked to the elders of my church about my joining an ecumenical, Charismatic community (not leaving the church to do so, mind you) one of them, without asking, said, “I had thought you were someone who was committed to Reformed theology, but I guess I was wrong.” It took a while to get over that from a relationship standpoint, because I was and am committed to the Reformed tradition and a good deal of Reformed theological emphasis (though not all).
I was just making a turn in my engagement with other people.
I’m pretty much over it now, but I think there is a huge war on now in terms of ecumenical engagement versus a revived emphasis upon theological markers and circling the wagons. Sad to see the latter progressing, in my opinion, though I am not “anti-intellectual” by any stretch of the imagination.
I received Christ in college and basically attended evangelical-type of non-Penyecostal/non-Charismatic churches. After I had been a Christian for 12 years God “dragged” me into Jack Hayford’s Church on the Way (a Foursquare church-Pentecostal). I sure didn’t wish to be a Pentecostal but soon saw real truths in their theological position. Since Church on the Way was not a holiness–”you can lose your salvation if you blink wrong” church, I could get with it doctrinally. My parents, especially my father who came from staunch Presbyterians way back from the Scottish Second Reformation, were horrified and saddened. They didn’t reject me or anything but I learned just before my mother died (my father had died much earlier) that they both were heartsick over me joining a Pentecostal church. But, she said, she saw such growth in me that now she was happy that I had gone to that church. So, hang in there folks…..if your relatives/freinds see a good change in you, they just might relent.
The pains of this type of “tension” prove inescapable even for your pastor; his son’s family converted to Orthodoxy. Doesn’t the divide just completely stink? Painful.
Thank you for asking this question, Mr. Spencer. Thank you also for your kindness and charity towards other Christians that may not be of your same denomination. That is so rare and it gives me hope. I’ll be brief. I haven’t even read the comments before mine, but I’m sure there are many.
My husband and I are converting to the Roman Catholic Church (we are in the RCIA process now). There are no Catholics on either side of our respective families. We have been Protestant our entire lives, and for the last 3 years, truly loving GOD and seeking HIS will in for our lives. We never thought in a million years it would be to the Catholic Church. I was raised in a faith that was anti-Catholic and he was mainline Presbyterian in PA.
Many things converged at one time – and my husband and I both could not believe that we both arrived by different paths at the doors of the RCC. It’s nothing short of a miracle (or curse, as some family would say).
My husband’s brother is a stauch Reformed/Calvinist. He believes we have fallen into the sin of idolatry and apostasized. He said he would not stop loving us, but we know there is so much tension in the family, no one has gotten together since our announcement. My brother in law said, “You’ve read the Institutes and WCF (short and long) and studied the true faith – now, you’ve made your choice.”
My niece is a Christian and a devout follower of the teachings of Rev. John Macarthur (Grace To You). She just quotes scripture to me and she thinks we have become apostate. She is barely even acknowledging me on Facebook
In our small town in Southwest Virginia, it is almost as if we are dying of a terminal disease. We moved here over ten years ago to buy a well-known national insurance company’s agency and know almost everyone in our town and in the surrounding county.
Women that I attended church with and love dearly, literally start to cry in the middle of Walmart when they see me. They hug me and just say, “I’m praying”…and then walk away with tears in their eyes. My husband and I always say we need to check the obituaries everyday to see if we are “dead yet”. We joke, but, I’m afraid it is a serious feeling.
Our parish is 45 minutes away. They are the most loving and wonderful people. We are a very close group, even though we have a large congregation. In our area, to be RCC is to be “the whore of Babylon and a follower of the anti-christ”. Being persecuted brings us closer together.
Thank you for giving me and others a chance to “speak our mind”. You are very kind.
May the peace of Christ be with your spirit,
Teri
Liberal anabaptist here that fell in love with a lovely AOG woman. Became best of friends but it ended when she decided our worldviews were too different and we would be unequally yoked. The final nail was when she expressed joy that people were being raised from the dead in Africa, and I’m afraid I didn’t respond very positively.
Wow, this is the first topic I have ever commented on, even though I have read this blog for 5 years. Ever since I saw that Purgatorio “You might be going hyper when…” and clicked “iMonk”. So, just thanks for the honesty that come about by walking with Jesus.
I grew up catholic, was an atheist, and then met Jesus through a charismatic church/ Messianic Jewish synagogue.
So, as I came into college and worked with Presybeterian / Reformed Baptist ministry, I found a great battle over spiritual gifts. I wept and danced during worship sessions, and they thought I was freaking nuts. At times, I regrettably have thought “They didn’t give me some opportunities to minister because of my spiritual convictions.” During college, I attended the So. Baptist church and became a full fledged member. Although I didn’t like the sermons (purpose driven and really devoid of Jesus), I still wanted to serve God as a missionary.
I applied for a position with the Baptist “Journeyman program”, wanting to spend two years on the field, and let people know about Jesus. We got into long discussions, applications, and all the way to the process. I had spent time really wrestling with my bible (which, aside, I have at this point become a Calvinist reading an NKJV), trying to work on Speaking in tongues. I realize its only for my personal prayer language, not in public. I agree to let go of drinking and smoking cigars for two years so I can go be a missionary. The interviewer asked about tongues, I tell them I won’t do it in public, but he basically said “Sorry, can’t do it. If that’s your conviction, we can’t wave it. No matter what you do.”
I was devastated. When they shot down the accountability amendment (about changing that 16 million number to reflect reality) at the next year’s convention, and instead passed down those requirements regarding alcohol and pastors, I quietly removed my application to SBTS and took my name off the membership rolls. It has taken years to work through that bitterness, if I’m honest.
I love my current Acts 29 church, because we just had a community group about predestination for two weeks, and we came down on different sides, with myself the only hardcore calvinist. And that was it. We realized where we stood, let it go, and decided to love Raleigh more as a diverse group. We really are an inter-denominational church. I love my southern baptist friends,and was blessed to meet people at Advance 09 that I can practice “long-term active repentance” by praying and partnering a local SoBap church so it can tell people about Jesus.
I just prayed for you guys, for sharing your hearts about all this mess. Thanks all of you guys from all stripes loving Jesus, despite sin and stupidity on Christian’s parts.