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Anyways Michael, sometimes I love what you say, other times you make me scratch my head and say, “What in the world is he thinking.” This is one of the those times that I can say, “I love what you are saying. God bless!”

However, it seems to me that those who bash “seeker-sensitivity” usually understand it to be catering to the culture rather than to unbelievers. I find nothing wrong with this, and neither do you. Unless, of course, you think services should ONLY be conducted in original Bible languages (or perhaps some prime-cultural original language of the Trinity?).

The fact that we preach in the vulgar language, that we allow people to dress how they’d like, that we drive cars 20 miles to church, sing songs that lift the hearts of people today rather than people 2000 years ago, and so on, is evidence that culture influences our worship, which is not evil.

A good pastor is sensitive to the people in his parish. This means not only being familiar enough with the culture to “become [the culture] to [the culture]” (i.e. by speaking the local dialect), but speaking at a level that can be understood by ALL the people in the pews, not just the theologically-informed.

That’s harder and more inclusive than pandering to people who are opposed to the truths of Christianity. We do the latter naturally–it’s called the fear of man. The former takes great effort, and reaches all sorts of people besides the people who have been sitting in the pews for 50 years.

A GOOD PASTOR ALWAYS AND ONLY PREACHES TO UNBELIEF. Preaching is only necessary because people don’t believe the Gospel, even those who have believed for 50 years. People might know the truths you’re reminding them of, or they might never have heard them before. But Christians need to hear the same things that non-Christians need to hear, because they’re messed up too, and don’t believe the Gospel fully (or else they’d be perfect).

So please don’t slam pastors who try to make the Gospel accessible to anyone who comes on Sundays (Christian or not), unless you just want a particular anti-cultural version of the Gospel for yourself and a few of your closest friends. (This is clearly NOT you, iMonk.)

When a church panders to the unbeliever, it cannot truly feed the believer. I suspect that what St. Paul was saying is that when unbelievers come to see what is so great about this whole Christian thing, they should be able to understand at gut level that God really is there with us. Then they will know what is so great, without any doubt. If we just make a big hoo-rah, how do they know that God is there? Or is God even there, at that point?

When I became a Christian, the church I attended was clearly there for the long-term building of a family of the faithful. I came back because there was something interesting and meaningful in that. It wasn’t the music (all hymns, with piano and organ), the sound system (there wasn’t one), the multimedia presentations (the what?) or dancing by the pulpit (yeah, right!). I came back because there was something real and solid in the preaching and in the purpose of everyone gathering together.

Sadly, that changed over time and a new pastor can find himself the patsy of the deacons. Or maybe the victim… Dispute over whether a cross belongs in the church at all bothered me a lot, but the pastor being unable to explain his assertions (which clearly contradicted the scriptures I was presenting to him – and unable to produce scriptures to support his assertions) and instead demanding that I bow to his interpretations because he went to seminary and I didn’t sort of drove me out of the church. It took a long time to find a church where I was truly at home in worship and sure of the focus of worship being God, not the folks in the pews. I expect this church to be my home for life.

If the presence of Christ in his people is not evident, how can we expect anyone to believe in it? I once read a statement by an atheist that he would believe in the redeeming power of Jesus’ sacrifice when he actually saw evidence of it in the lives of those who claim to have it. How many churches have we all seen that this atheist would say reinforced his view? Probably a lot. But, the hope for our faith is that there are plenty where the Good News is still proclaimed and loved. Where God is the true focus of worship, not self. Where the atheist, even if he doesn’t understand what’s going on, at least will know that there is something real and different here. I pray that every church might truly have this in abundance.

-Patrick

I recently read about Imonk’s trip to the Christian bookstore, is it really any surprise that people don’t evangelize anymore with the material that is out there? Not making a general statement here but in most cases, with seeker churches, that is the case. IMHO

Also since when can “enemies of God” worship? Not against unbelievers in the church, the church should not cater to them but preach the Word for the purpose of building up.

Imonk is right, I know very few churches who practice church discipline. I know of a situation of a young minister whose spouse caught him in sin on the internet. They went to the pastor, told him and next month this gentleman is leading a mission trip and will preach there! The only church I have heard of that practices church discipline is Macarthur’s in California
david

For several years, I got caught up in the seeker-sensitive and seeker-driven (they are two fairly different models) concept and spouted off all the Hybels and Warren philosophies with conviction. However, I have since realized the futility of that and no longer embrace the seeker-driven concept.

I would say that Paul was actually teaching some pure form of “seeker-sensitive” concepts in 1 Cor 14, but only seeker-sensitive in the sense that he says tongues will confuse the listener if they are not used properly and if they are not interpreted. But seeker-DRIVEN (the whole forming of programming to cater to the expectations and desires of unsaved people) is not found in Scripture, in my opinion. If people have a burden to evangelize in that manner, great! Go do it! But don’t call it a church, and don’t try to attract believers to be a part of it as attendees and observers!

steve