Comments on: One Big, Happy, Lie: Southern Baptists, Alcohol and Me

By: J.T.

J.T. — Tue, 05 Aug 2008 14:50:18 +0000

It’s really kind of funny. One of those contradictory stereotypes of Southerners. Good Southern Baptists don’t drink. But almost all of America’s hard alcohol is made in the South, and most famous Southerners were famous drinkers.

By: paul merrill

paul merrill — Wed, 30 Jul 2008 18:40:03 +0000

(I just had to be the 100th comment.)

Some good & interesting thoughts.

My 2c – moderation is a good principle in many areas of life.

By: Beabee

Beabee — Sun, 02 Mar 2008 00:21:32 +0000

Oh yes, and also, once at the church my parents attend and I used to, the pastor said, direct quote, “and on that same night the Lord took the grape juice, saying…”

By: Beabee

Beabee — Sat, 01 Mar 2008 23:54:30 +0000

Thank you for this enlightening and clearly written post, even though I know you wrote it a long time ago. Your experience was exactly like mine, except it was my Catholic boyfriend (now fiance) who made me rethink. Even though I now believe the truth about drinking and what the Bible says, I still can’t shake the initial gut reaction of terror, sin, and shame when I see him drink. What things we do to our children in the name of holy living.

By: Kirk C.

Kirk C. — Mon, 05 Nov 2007 00:25:40 +0000

Re: John 2

I think a lot of us are misreading it. The verb in 2:8 “Now draw some out…” usually has reference to drawing water out of a well. It shows up next in John 4 to describe what the Samaritan woman was doing. It looks to me like Jesus sets aside 120-180 gallons of water, and then turned the well water into wine for the duration of the party. What an outstanding way to fix a wine shortage!

By: Linda

Linda — Sat, 13 Oct 2007 07:14:48 +0000

My husband and I became sinners saved by His loving grace as adults. And then, my husband became a Southern Baptist pastor. I was raised very relisously in an Episcapalian home, infant baptized and confirmed as a teen….when I got saved, and then followed with a baptism I understood ….our pastors wife discipled me. Under her well intended teaching I learned not to wear makeup, dance, drink booze, play cards, never teach men…even male teens, be submissive and don’t play the lottery. If I went to a function where alcohol was served drink it from a can because in a class people might think it’s hard liquor. and I obeyed. After many years of service and legalizim and attacks from the enemy and BURNOUT and attacks from brothers and sisters in HIM….we quit. and we stayed away from God’s kids for 10 years. Now, we are back. But, we are back as new creatures in Him. I told my husband, that I am who He made me to be…and if people don’t like that then that is thier problem not mine. Also, after a careful study…I don’t see where I can’t drink alcohol, or dance like David, and worship can be fun, and doesn’t have to be somber and leagalisitc, and I my husband and I can be partners that submissive doesn’t mean I’m nothing and he is everything…getting burned out and screwed over by other christians may have been the best thing that happened to us! is that what they meant by consider it all joy when you encounter various trials???? VBG????

CHEERS>>>

By: Jerry

Jerry — Wed, 13 Jun 2007 04:56:15 +0000

I don’t know if this is the Charles Hodge quote that was requested earlier, but it is in his commentary on Romans (if you want to track it down) and it goes like this:

It is often necessary to assert our Christian liberty at the expense of incurring censure, and offending even good men, in order that right principles of duty may be preserved. Our Savior consented to be regarded as a Sabbath breaker and, and even a “wine bibber and a friend of publicans and sinners”; but wisdom was justified by her children.

I too recommend everyone read “Drinking with Calvin and Luther,” by Jim West. Google and you shall find it.

Michael: I love your blog. My SBC mother (who proudly puts tracts in six packs at the Winn Dixie) can’t believe that she gave birth to a son who grew up to be a Presbyterian pastor who moderately consumes wine and beer. You should have heard her go off on me the first time she saw me wearing a Guinness shirt…just to show you how muddled her thinking is, she tried to tell me that pastors have higher ethical standards than other Christians. When she couldn’t prove that nonsense from Scripture, she sulked.
My first pastorate was in a church that didn’t use wine in communion because the janitor was a former alcoholic. Based on the principle of not binding my conscience, the session (that’s “elders” to you non-Presbyies) agreed that I could have wine in my goblet. After two years of patient waiting, the session agreed that we could offer wine and grape juice in communion. I still hate that idea because it sounds like the sacraments are a matter of choice, but again, I wouldn’t presume to bind the consciences of those who were against wine. Still, it makes it hard for me to justify my criticism of the “Jesus People” who used pizza and Coke for their observance of the Lord’s Supper.
Anyway, being raised a missionary kid in an interdenominational mission organization, I grew up with Nazarenes, Holiness, Wesleyans, SBs–you name it. And of course, drinking was verboten. When I finally convinced my session to allow the use of wine in communion, I wrote an article for the church newsletter explaining the change, and giving plenty of exegetical arguments for the moderate consumption of beverage alcohol.
In response, my mother sent me a videotape of a Charles Stanley sermon (part 3 of a 5 part message, I believe) in which Stanley categorically denounces alcohol. The funny (ironic and amusing funny) thing was that he gave how many Scriptures in support of his prohibition? None. Granted, this was a multi-part message, and maybe he quoted some Scripture on another tape, but as a pastor myself, if I am giving a multi-part message, I never assume that my hearers were there for the whole thing. If I am making a point that requires a review, I do it. Stanley didn’t. That is poor preaching.
I am preaching on the subject of the weaker brother in two weeks, and I expect that some will be offended when I say that moderate consumption of beverage alcohol is clearly taught in Scripture….

By: JamesG3

JamesG3 — Fri, 30 Dec 2005 18:47:01 +0000

I was raised in a fellowship very similar to the SBC (though neither likes to admit the similarities). I’ll be honest…I never knew by those SBC people I knew that Baptists didn’t drink. I suppose not being Baptist, they didn’t feel a need to hide it from me…and I’m a minister myself. I, too, was taught that the Bible was very clear that all alcohol was sinful, except in cases of a doctor’s advice (think Paul’s advice to Timothy…though Paul was no Dr.). As a member of Kiwanis for a while, my impressions that Baptists must not be against drinking was only reinforced as they talked of going to a Presbyterian’s winery, talked about parties over the weekend, and remeniced about the margarita blender one of their elderly fathers had rigged to run off the battery of his 70s Ford truck so they could party down at the river.

I’m not picking on the Baptists, I’ve many a good Baptist friend, and in our fellowship we’ve got the same hypocrisy and oddball teachings.

The final eye-opener for me was Scripture itself. This verse, above all, simply blew all the old arguments out of the water and shattered their weight in my thinking:

Deut 14:22-26
22 “You shall surely tithe all the produce from what you sow, which comes out of the field every year.
23 “And you shall eat in the presence of the LORD your God, at the place where He chooses to establish His name, the tithe of your grain, your new wine, your oil, and the first-born of your herd and your flock, in order that you may learn to fear the LORD your God always.
24 “And if the distance is so great for you that you are not able to bring the tithe, since the place where the LORD your God chooses to set His name is too far away from you when the LORD your God blesses you,
25 then you shall exchange it for money, and bind the money in your hand and go to the place which the LORD your God chooses.
26 “AND YOUI MAY SPEND THE MONEY FOR WHATEVER YOUR HEART DESIRES, for oxen, or sheep, or WINE, or STRONG DRINK, or whatever your heart desires; AND THERE YOU SHALL EAT IT IN THE PRESENCE OF THE LORD YOUR GOD AND REJOICE, you and your household.”
(NAS)

There it is, right smack-dab in the middle of the Law of Moses–God granting permission for wine and strong drink (some translations even say beer) at a religiously required meal in the presence of God Himself.

By: Michael Spencer

Michael Spencer — Tue, 06 Dec 2005 04:08:48 +0000

You’ll be glad to know I never claimed to know anything about the Southern Baptists you know. I wrote about the ones I know. And your conclusion that I have “disdain” is not only unwarranted…it’s the kind of Frank Turk style evaluation I keep getting from people who apparently believe the proper attitude to one’s denomination is kind of an uncritical team loyalty. (Can anyone say “John Macarthur never got anything wrong?”) You can avoid any further concern because there is no chance I will ever have an uncritical attitude toward anything I am part of. You read and criticized my writing, so I assume you don’t feel it’s sinful to have criticisms. Good.

By: Mark of Kingwood

Mark of Kingwood — Tue, 06 Dec 2005 04:02:19 +0000

Michael – Unknowingly, or maybe knowingly, you’ve revealed your personal disdain for Southern Baptists. The Southern Baptist that you describe are not the Southern Baptist that I know. The New Testament does not forbid any food or drink, but does warn us of drunkedness and encourages a sober mind. Your generalisations about an entire Christian denomination are what generalisations tend to be – wrong.