Comments on: Once Upon A Time, An Arminian Put An ESV Study Bible Post On His Blog…. http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/once-upon-a-time-an-arminian-put-an-esv-study-bible-post-on-his-blog ...dispatches from the post-evangelical wilderness Sun, 12 Feb 2012 03:00:59 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Nightturkey http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/once-upon-a-time-an-arminian-put-an-esv-study-bible-post-on-his-blog/comment-page-2#comment-347324 Nightturkey Thu, 01 Jan 2009 16:04:27 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/once-upon-a-time-an-arminian-put-an-esv-study-bible-post-on-his-blog#comment-347324 No fair - this was posted under "Laugh or Else" - and instead I find myself alternately weeping over the sometimes-injurious divides that still exist in the Body of Christ and rejoicing over the fact that this blog (and others like it) shows that there are those who haven't given up hope that the Body will heal and are trying very hard to be part of the healing process. But laughing? Nope. So I guess I'm "else-ing". No fair – this was posted under “Laugh or Else” – and instead I find myself alternately weeping over the sometimes-injurious divides that still exist in the Body of Christ and rejoicing over the fact that this blog (and others like it) shows that there are those who haven’t given up hope that the Body will heal and are trying very hard to be part of the healing process. But laughing? Nope. So I guess I’m “else-ing”.

]]> By: preaceKem http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/once-upon-a-time-an-arminian-put-an-esv-study-bible-post-on-his-blog/comment-page-2#comment-337098 preaceKem Fri, 19 Dec 2008 18:20:51 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/once-upon-a-time-an-arminian-put-an-esv-study-bible-post-on-his-blog#comment-337098 Excellent web pages Successes and prosperity to you! Excellent web pages Successes and prosperity to you!

]]> By: Christopher Lake http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/once-upon-a-time-an-arminian-put-an-esv-study-bible-post-on-his-blog/comment-page-2#comment-303953 Christopher Lake Mon, 13 Oct 2008 20:31:41 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/once-upon-a-time-an-arminian-put-an-esv-study-bible-post-on-his-blog#comment-303953 Sorry, I meant Matthew 5:43-48. Sorry, I meant Matthew 5:43-48.

]]> By: Christopher Lake http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/once-upon-a-time-an-arminian-put-an-esv-study-bible-post-on-his-blog/comment-page-2#comment-303948 Christopher Lake Mon, 13 Oct 2008 20:29:19 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/once-upon-a-time-an-arminian-put-an-esv-study-bible-post-on-his-blog#comment-303948 Weekend Fisher, I am Reformed in my theology (I will not use the "C" word, as there is too much baggage with it), because I believe that Reformed theology is most faithful to the Bible's teaching. I am saddened and embarrassed when I hear people such as Charlie, who believe that God has no love at all for the non-elect. I have tried to reason with him on this subject, showing from Matthew 5:42-48 that God *does* clearly love the non-elect. For my efforts, Charlie has accused me of "being closer to Amyraldianism (four-point Calvinism, which he thinks is no Calvinism at all) or Arminianism than to Calvinism." Again, I'm a Reformed Christian-- I don't even like to use the word "Calvinist!" Charlie also throws around the term "heresy" very carelessly. Such people are prone to a kind of theological paranoia, constantly on the hunt for even any *possible* error in a Christian's thinking. If you don't subscribe to their brand of hyper-Calvinism, you are either a heretic or on the very edge of heresy. How refreshing, in comparison, is Ray Ortlund, Jr.'s loving, open-hearted Reformed theology which embraces all Christians as brothers and sisters, not only those of Reformed beliefs. He writes about his convictions on his blog, "Christ Is Deeper Still, under the entry, "Truly Reformed"-- one of the best, warmest blog posts I have ever read. I tried to post a link here, but it wouldn't work. Weekend Fisher,

I am Reformed in my theology (I will not use the “C” word, as there is too much baggage with it), because I believe that Reformed theology is most faithful to the Bible’s teaching. I am saddened and embarrassed when I hear people such as Charlie, who believe that God has no love at all for the non-elect. I have tried to reason with him on this subject, showing from Matthew 5:42-48 that God *does* clearly love the non-elect.

For my efforts, Charlie has accused me of “being closer to Amyraldianism (four-point Calvinism, which he thinks is no Calvinism at all) or Arminianism than to Calvinism.” Again, I’m a Reformed Christian– I don’t even like to use the word “Calvinist!” Charlie also throws around the term “heresy” very carelessly.

Such people are prone to a kind of theological paranoia, constantly on the hunt for even any *possible* error in a Christian’s thinking. If you don’t subscribe to their brand of hyper-Calvinism, you are either a heretic or on the very edge of heresy.

How refreshing, in comparison, is Ray Ortlund, Jr.’s loving, open-hearted Reformed theology which embraces all Christians as brothers and sisters, not only those of Reformed beliefs. He writes about his convictions on his blog, “Christ Is Deeper Still, under the entry, “Truly Reformed”– one of the best, warmest blog posts I have ever read. I tried to post a link here, but it wouldn’t work.

]]> By: terri http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/once-upon-a-time-an-arminian-put-an-esv-study-bible-post-on-his-blog/comment-page-2#comment-303939 terri Mon, 13 Oct 2008 20:09:50 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/once-upon-a-time-an-arminian-put-an-esv-study-bible-post-on-his-blog#comment-303939 What cracks me up is that Charles's blog is named "Reasonable Christian". Me-thinks Charles doesn't understand the term "reasonable". What cracks me up is that Charles’s blog is named “Reasonable Christian”.

Me-thinks Charles doesn’t understand the term “reasonable”.

]]> By: Weekend Fisher http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/once-upon-a-time-an-arminian-put-an-esv-study-bible-post-on-his-blog/comment-page-2#comment-303568 Weekend Fisher Mon, 13 Oct 2008 04:09:18 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/once-upon-a-time-an-arminian-put-an-esv-study-bible-post-on-his-blog#comment-303568 I know a lot of Calvinists who wish their brothers (and it usually is brothers) didn't spout like that, but most of them honestly can't see what about Calvinism draws people like that and encourages them. I remember Piper awhile back posted a piece claiming it was the intellectual superiority of Calvinism that attracted people like that -- which is a Herculean spin but completely out of touch with what God-loving scholars act like. No, I'm convinced that it's a certain strain of Calvinism's obsession with God's power / sovereignty and their belief in God's sheer ruthlessness toward the non-elect that draws people like that and gives them a perceived license to be ruthless to the non-Calvinist. Take care & God bless WF I know a lot of Calvinists who wish their brothers (and it usually is brothers) didn’t spout like that, but most of them honestly can’t see what about Calvinism draws people like that and encourages them. I remember Piper awhile back posted a piece claiming it was the intellectual superiority of Calvinism that attracted people like that — which is a Herculean spin but completely out of touch with what God-loving scholars act like.

No, I’m convinced that it’s a certain strain of Calvinism’s obsession with God’s power / sovereignty and their belief in God’s sheer ruthlessness toward the non-elect that draws people like that and gives them a perceived license to be ruthless to the non-Calvinist.

Take care & God bless
WF

]]> By: Andrew http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/once-upon-a-time-an-arminian-put-an-esv-study-bible-post-on-his-blog/comment-page-2#comment-303520 Andrew Mon, 13 Oct 2008 02:02:12 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/once-upon-a-time-an-arminian-put-an-esv-study-bible-post-on-his-blog#comment-303520 The Hymns of Charles Wesley and the biblical commentary of John Wesley are the main reasons why I can no longer see any reason for identifying as a Calvinist. On the other hand, the Wesleys are also one of the reasons I am beginning to wonder why I'm still a protestant. As Stanley Hauerwas said - nearly 20 years ago - "Methodists indeed are even more Catholic than the Anglicans who gave us birth since Wesley, of blessed memory, held to the Eastern fathers in a more determinative way than did any of the Western churches -- Protestant or Catholic." And add to that the incomprehensible fact that I am - and have been for more than ten years - a Baptist. Go figure! The Hymns of Charles Wesley and the biblical commentary of John Wesley are the main reasons why I can no longer see any reason for identifying as a Calvinist. On the other hand, the Wesleys are also one of the reasons I am beginning to wonder why I’m still a protestant. As Stanley Hauerwas said – nearly 20 years ago – “Methodists indeed are even more Catholic than the Anglicans who gave us birth since Wesley, of blessed memory, held to the Eastern fathers in a more determinative way than did any of the Western churches — Protestant or Catholic.”

And add to that the incomprehensible fact that I am – and have been for more than ten years – a Baptist.

Go figure!

]]> By: Christopher Lake http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/once-upon-a-time-an-arminian-put-an-esv-study-bible-post-on-his-blog/comment-page-2#comment-303457 Christopher Lake Sun, 12 Oct 2008 23:30:37 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/once-upon-a-time-an-arminian-put-an-esv-study-bible-post-on-his-blog#comment-303457 Dan, I follow Christ, very imperfectly. So did John Calvin, very imperfectly. I don't embrace anything in John Calvin's theology because of the man. I embrace what is true in his theology because I found it in the Bible before I ever read any of Calvin's works. I don't like the word "Calvinist." I don't follow Calvin, even though I think that his basic theology is straight from the Scriptures and faithful to them. I am a Christian (follower of Christ alone) who holds to the Biblical theology of the Protestant Reformation. In that light, "Reformed Christian" is much more accurate than "Calvinist." I wish that the term would be retired. Dan,

I follow Christ, very imperfectly. So did John Calvin, very imperfectly. I don’t embrace anything in John Calvin’s theology because of the man. I embrace what is true in his theology because I found it in the Bible before I ever read any of Calvin’s works.

I don’t like the word “Calvinist.” I don’t follow Calvin, even though I think that his basic theology is straight from the Scriptures and faithful to them. I am a Christian (follower of Christ alone) who holds to the Biblical theology of the Protestant Reformation. In that light, “Reformed Christian” is much more accurate than “Calvinist.” I wish that the term would be retired.

]]> By: dan http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/once-upon-a-time-an-arminian-put-an-esv-study-bible-post-on-his-blog/comment-page-2#comment-303199 dan Sun, 12 Oct 2008 05:31:35 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/once-upon-a-time-an-arminian-put-an-esv-study-bible-post-on-his-blog#comment-303199 Seems this whole silly mess could be avoided if we focused on Him. Why do argue about what or who follows Calvin, or Calvin and Hobbs, or Caner or whoever. I was brought up to follow Christ. My parents "theology", dad's a preacher, gave rise to my understanding and disallusion. That in turn gave rise to seeking Him that they said they followed. Didn't find Him in a church or systimatized way of thought, but in actually taking time to try and communicate directly. That led me to a church family, strangely the one I left. But without all the noise of this line of thought is better than one. Just pure unadultered Him. Seems this whole silly mess could be avoided if we focused on Him. Why do argue about what or who follows Calvin, or Calvin and Hobbs, or Caner or whoever. I was brought up to follow Christ. My parents “theology”, dad’s a preacher, gave rise to my understanding and disallusion. That in turn gave rise to seeking Him that they said they followed. Didn’t find Him in a church or systimatized way of thought, but in actually taking time to try and communicate directly. That led me to a church family, strangely the one I left. But without all the noise of this line of thought is better than one. Just pure unadultered Him.

]]> By: Bill http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/once-upon-a-time-an-arminian-put-an-esv-study-bible-post-on-his-blog/comment-page-2#comment-303179 Bill Sun, 12 Oct 2008 03:29:22 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/once-upon-a-time-an-arminian-put-an-esv-study-bible-post-on-his-blog#comment-303179 It seems to me that many of the argumentative Calvinists of today are like the fundamental, independent Baptists of 30-40 years ago. At the time they were a growing, surging movement. But somewhere along the line, their passion for personal evangelism and holiness became sublimated to their obsession with hair length, movies, non-Christian music, and a general attack on much of modern culture. They quickly became a caricature, a declining subculture with little influence outside its own ranks. The same thing may happen to many contemporary Calvinists if they continue their obsession with in-house debates, a constant hunt for error anywhere they find it, and a suspicion of anything that's "non-Calvinist". I know not all Calvinists are like this, but I have been around them enough to see this nit-picking attitude at work. It seems to me that many of the argumentative Calvinists of today are like the fundamental, independent Baptists of 30-40 years ago. At the time they were a growing, surging movement. But somewhere along the line, their passion for personal evangelism and holiness became sublimated to their obsession with hair length, movies, non-Christian music, and a general attack on much of modern culture. They quickly became a caricature, a declining subculture with little influence outside its own ranks.

The same thing may happen to many contemporary Calvinists if they continue their obsession with in-house debates, a constant hunt for error anywhere they find it, and a suspicion of anything that’s “non-Calvinist”. I know not all Calvinists are like this, but I have been around them enough to see this nit-picking attitude at work.

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