Comments on: On The Way To Being “The New Humanity” http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/on-the-way-to-being-the-new-humanity ...dispatches from the post-evangelical wilderness Sun, 12 Feb 2012 12:47:28 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: RonP http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/on-the-way-to-being-the-new-humanity/comment-page-1#comment-521103 RonP Sun, 13 Dec 2009 06:25:07 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=5173#comment-521103 That's really cool, JoanieD. Jesus embraced the lowly, sick, and disabled during His earthly ministry, and now I think He often embraces the rest of us through them. That’s really cool, JoanieD. Jesus embraced the lowly, sick, and disabled during His earthly ministry, and now I think He often embraces the rest of us through them.

]]> By: Christopher Lake http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/on-the-way-to-being-the-new-humanity/comment-page-1#comment-520974 Christopher Lake Thu, 10 Dec 2009 18:33:48 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=5173#comment-520974 I have had more than a few severe traumas and personal setbacks in my life, both before and after becoming a Christian. I've also made some (looking back) not-so-wise choices, in terms of my career life. Last (but not least, hehe), I have Cerebral Palsy, a physical disability which causes me to have to use a wheelchair for much of my "getting around" and which also contributes to my not being able to drive. At the age of 36, I have a college degree but no paying job. That has been the case for longer than I care to remember. I have a deep desire to marry (not just any woman, but a Christian who shares my beliefs, values, and maybe a few of my interests), but largely due to my financial state, I don't know when or if that will ever happen. I have good days and bad days. My temperament is definitely more on the "serious" side than the "bubbly" one. :-) My hope and joy, however, are rooted in much more than my earthly circumstances. They are rooted in Jesus Christ and His work for me on the cross. As long as Jesus knows me, and I know Him, I can live and smile (at least sometimes) with a deep sense of joy and stability in this life. It's not always easy, but it's the life I have. When I compare it to the abiding emptiness that I felt (even in my happier moments) as a non-Christian, it's actually a pretty great life. :-) I have had more than a few severe traumas and personal setbacks in my life, both before and after becoming a Christian. I’ve also made some (looking back) not-so-wise choices, in terms of my career life. Last (but not least, hehe), I have Cerebral Palsy, a physical disability which causes me to have to use a wheelchair for much of my “getting around” and which also contributes to my not being able to drive.

At the age of 36, I have a college degree but no paying job. That has been the case for longer than I care to remember. I have a deep desire to marry (not just any woman, but a Christian who shares my beliefs, values, and maybe a few of my interests), but largely due to my financial state, I don’t know when or if that will ever happen.

I have good days and bad days. My temperament is definitely more on the “serious” side than the “bubbly” one. :-) My hope and joy, however, are rooted in much more than my earthly circumstances. They are rooted in Jesus Christ and His work for me on the cross. As long as Jesus knows me, and I know Him, I can live and smile (at least sometimes) with a deep sense of joy and stability in this life. It’s not always easy, but it’s the life I have. When I compare it to the abiding emptiness that I felt (even in my happier moments) as a non-Christian, it’s actually a pretty great life. :-)

]]> By: Frank http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/on-the-way-to-being-the-new-humanity/comment-page-1#comment-520911 Frank Wed, 09 Dec 2009 22:17:05 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=5173#comment-520911 No other experience will increase your faith more than when you have to TOTALLY and completely trust God. It wasn't until I was broken by life that I understood the extent of God's love for us. Because of depression, I couldn't handle being a husband and father, a productive employee, or anything else. A counselor at the time reminded me again and again in our sessions that I must completely trust God for everything. She continuously reminded me that God provides everything we need in this life; this, for me, included moods and attitudes that I couldn't bring myself to change. I began to trust and see little miracles in my life everyday. I had to reach out to him every day just to make it, and let go of even the little control I thought I had. It was amazing to sit back and see the hand of God at work. It made me love Him so much and made me so thankful for what Jesus did. This has stayed with me ever since that time. I wasn't in that pit for very long, maybe a few months, but it changed me for good. Now, when I dip a little, I'm reminded of that time and thankful for the experience. It hurt, but it made my faith great. No other experience will increase your faith more than when you have to TOTALLY and completely trust God. It wasn’t until I was broken by life that I understood the extent of God’s love for us. Because of depression, I couldn’t handle being a husband and father, a productive employee, or anything else. A counselor at the time reminded me again and again in our sessions that I must completely trust God for everything. She continuously reminded me that God provides everything we need in this life; this, for me, included moods and attitudes that I couldn’t bring myself to change. I began to trust and see little miracles in my life everyday. I had to reach out to him every day just to make it, and let go of even the little control I thought I had. It was amazing to sit back and see the hand of God at work. It made me love Him so much and made me so thankful for what Jesus did. This has stayed with me ever since that time. I wasn’t in that pit for very long, maybe a few months, but it changed me for good. Now, when I dip a little, I’m reminded of that time and thankful for the experience. It hurt, but it made my faith great.

]]> By: Gordon http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/on-the-way-to-being-the-new-humanity/comment-page-1#comment-520788 Gordon Mon, 07 Dec 2009 00:06:24 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=5173#comment-520788 I love something Frank Herbert once said (C.S. Lewis isn't in the canon, either, so go along with me here). Paraphrase: "A thing will do everything in its power to keep from becoming its opposite". And what is sanctification, if not the process by which the Holy Spirit turns men into their own opposites? If Frank was correct, we'll endure a lot of pain before we truly submit to the process. A bit like trying to give a cat a bath. It kind of depends on the cat, too. I love something Frank Herbert once said (C.S. Lewis isn’t in the canon, either, so go along with me here). Paraphrase: “A thing will do everything in its power to keep from becoming its opposite”. And what is sanctification, if not the process by which the Holy Spirit turns men into their own opposites? If Frank was correct, we’ll endure a lot of pain before we truly submit to the process. A bit like trying to give a cat a bath. It kind of depends on the cat, too.

]]> By: Martha http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/on-the-way-to-being-the-new-humanity/comment-page-1#comment-520786 Martha Sun, 06 Dec 2009 19:41:38 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=5173#comment-520786 This being Advent, the Magnificat is maybe a good place to start? "He has looked on his servant in her lowliness; henceforth all generations will call me blessed". This being Advent, the Magnificat is maybe a good place to start?

“He has looked on his servant in her lowliness; henceforth all generations will call me blessed”.

]]> By: gomergirl http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/on-the-way-to-being-the-new-humanity/comment-page-1#comment-520783 gomergirl Sun, 06 Dec 2009 17:10:18 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=5173#comment-520783 your writing here reminds me of what i first loved about brennan manning's the ragamuffin gospel. until we let go of our pretensions and utter depravity in sin, we will not have the fullness of the joy that is ours. i'm searching for word for a tea with the women in our church. not the usual fluffy-feel-good touchy-feely woman crap. i really want them to understand the gospel and take it to heart. to understand that in-spite of their femininity, they too are entitled to the deep and soul changing love and grace of the god we say we serve. maybe i expect too much from women who are talked down to in most of christian culture. but i don't expect too much from the spirit that i know can reveal the truth to their hearts, if they are willing. sorry... too ranty? your writing here reminds me of what i first loved about brennan manning’s the ragamuffin gospel. until we let go of our pretensions and utter depravity in sin, we will not have the fullness of the joy that is ours. i’m searching for word for a tea with the women in our church. not the usual fluffy-feel-good touchy-feely woman crap. i really want them to understand the gospel and take it to heart. to understand that in-spite of their femininity, they too are entitled to the deep and soul changing love and grace of the god we say we serve. maybe i expect too much from women who are talked down to in most of christian culture. but i don’t expect too much from the spirit that i know can reveal the truth to their hearts, if they are willing. sorry… too ranty?

]]> By: JoanieD http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/on-the-way-to-being-the-new-humanity/comment-page-1#comment-520772 JoanieD Sun, 06 Dec 2009 00:44:58 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=5173#comment-520772 I agree with you, Dr. Mike, that we need to keep in mind who is the Creator and who is the creature. And yet, my perusal of the scriptures leads me to believe that God will save all who seek Him and if they are saved, Jesus has saved them. And in regard to your deceased family members, only God can know what happened with them in the last seconds of their lives. As Jesus was being crucified, he prayed to the Father to forgive the people crucifying him because they didn't know what they were doing. How many of us really know what we are doing? God's mercy knows no bounds. I agree with you, Dr. Mike, that we need to keep in mind who is the Creator and who is the creature. And yet, my perusal of the scriptures leads me to believe that God will save all who seek Him and if they are saved, Jesus has saved them. And in regard to your deceased family members, only God can know what happened with them in the last seconds of their lives. As Jesus was being crucified, he prayed to the Father to forgive the people crucifying him because they didn’t know what they were doing. How many of us really know what we are doing? God’s mercy knows no bounds.

]]> By: Dr Mike http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/on-the-way-to-being-the-new-humanity/comment-page-1#comment-520769 Dr Mike Sat, 05 Dec 2009 21:51:53 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=5173#comment-520769 I would like to be able to believe in inclusivism but my exegesis doesn't allow it. If it were possible to maintain my integrity, I would do it: I've tried to find ways to become more inclusive through theological loopholes and hermeneutical gymnastics. But the preponderance of the biblical evidence is against it, and when I come to the end of my efforts I have to accept that fact - a fact that may have direct bearing of the fate of my deceased father, as well as many other family members who had little use for God during their lives. God is not always who I want him to be. Whenever I try to "soften" the truth, I feel as though I am minimizing the suffering of Christ and making light of the holiness of God. I have to keep in mind who is the Creator and who is the creature, who makes the rules and who is called to live with them. It's not about me. I would like to be able to believe in inclusivism but my exegesis doesn’t allow it. If it were possible to maintain my integrity, I would do it: I’ve tried to find ways to become more inclusive through theological loopholes and hermeneutical gymnastics. But the preponderance of the biblical evidence is against it, and when I come to the end of my efforts I have to accept that fact – a fact that may have direct bearing of the fate of my deceased father, as well as many other family members who had little use for God during their lives.

God is not always who I want him to be. Whenever I try to “soften” the truth, I feel as though I am minimizing the suffering of Christ and making light of the holiness of God. I have to keep in mind who is the Creator and who is the creature, who makes the rules and who is called to live with them. It’s not about me.

]]> By: JoanieD http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/on-the-way-to-being-the-new-humanity/comment-page-1#comment-520768 JoanieD Sat, 05 Dec 2009 21:21:14 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=5173#comment-520768 Dr. Mike, you spoke about being sad "knowing that most people are perishing." I think that may be the problem right there. The Christmas message is a joyful message because Jesus came as God in the flesh because he loves all of mankind and wants to save all of mankind. I am a Christian who happens to be an "inclusivist." You can read more about it here: http://thetruth.atspace.com/inclusivism.html It is NOT the same as Universalist. Jesus tells us that some people will never choose the light of his love, preferring darkness. But if you read the article, you will see that a lot of "famous" Christians believed that MANY more people will be saved than you may have realized. Our God is a loving, forgiving, gracious God indeed. I wish you peace and joy. My joy is not one that is always splashed across my face. In fact, I look pretty "serious" most of the time. But I do have this inner sense of calm and peace because of Jesus. It helps to practice Centering Prayer which can lead to Contemplative Prayer which is resting in the presence of God. It helps to divert us away from our daily cares and worries and just rest in the love that God has for us. Centering Prayer is not the only way. There are many ways, but it's a way that has helped me. You can read about it on the internet. Basil Pennington and Thomas Keating have taught it. Dr. Mike, you spoke about being sad “knowing that most people are perishing.” I think that may be the problem right there. The Christmas message is a joyful message because Jesus came as God in the flesh because he loves all of mankind and wants to save all of mankind. I am a Christian who happens to be an “inclusivist.” You can read more about it here: http://thetruth.atspace.com/inclusivism.html It is NOT the same as Universalist. Jesus tells us that some people will never choose the light of his love, preferring darkness. But if you read the article, you will see that a lot of “famous” Christians believed that MANY more people will be saved than you may have realized. Our God is a loving, forgiving, gracious God indeed. I wish you peace and joy. My joy is not one that is always splashed across my face. In fact, I look pretty “serious” most of the time. But I do have this inner sense of calm and peace because of Jesus. It helps to practice Centering Prayer which can lead to Contemplative Prayer which is resting in the presence of God. It helps to divert us away from our daily cares and worries and just rest in the love that God has for us. Centering Prayer is not the only way. There are many ways, but it’s a way that has helped me. You can read about it on the internet. Basil Pennington and Thomas Keating have taught it.

]]> By: mick http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/on-the-way-to-being-the-new-humanity/comment-page-1#comment-520766 mick Sat, 05 Dec 2009 19:50:35 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=5173#comment-520766 I can relate to your experience. Some are called to "weep" like Jeremiah, others to dance. Some more somber others ecstatic. This I believe is both personality and Spirit in us. But I also believe (and still struggle to receive) joy that is both beneath and above our personality, experiences, focus of ministry (like those who work where there is a lot of pain and suffering) or circumstances. Jesus, the "man of sorrows" also prays that his joy would be in us. We are told he was "full of joy in the Holy Spirit when he prayed after the 12 (or 70) returned from mission. J the B, another guy who seems to be alway serious, irritated or in a bad mood speaks of the joy he has in hearing the bridegroom's voice and his becoming less as Christ becomes greater. We may be called to grieve or may be a more serious minded person but we also need the Lord to help us to be/do this in hope and in living in the light of the resurrection - now. May we learn to recognize and practice being joyful for the resurrection stories that are also, always present. I can relate to your experience. Some are called to “weep” like Jeremiah, others to dance. Some more somber others ecstatic. This I believe is both personality and Spirit in us. But I also believe (and still struggle to receive) joy that is both beneath and above our personality, experiences, focus of ministry (like those who work where there is a lot of pain and suffering) or circumstances. Jesus, the “man of sorrows” also prays that his joy would be in us. We are told he was “full of joy in the Holy Spirit when he prayed after the 12 (or 70) returned from mission. J the B, another guy who seems to be alway serious, irritated or in a bad mood speaks of the joy he has in hearing the bridegroom’s voice and his becoming less as Christ becomes greater. We may be called to grieve or may be a more serious minded person but we also need the Lord to help us to be/do this in hope and in living in the light of the resurrection – now. May we learn to recognize and practice being joyful for the resurrection stories that are also, always present.

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