Comments on: No Such “Thing” As Grace

By: So Many Stones

So Many Stones — Sun, 12 Aug 2007 05:56:05 +0000

This is the kind of reminder that I need, again and again. Too often my time with God is really not “time with God,” but time trying to understand the concept of God with ever-increasing accuracy and clarity. This comes up short of genuine “abiding.” Thanks for the post, you’re nudging me in the direction in which I ought to be moving.

By: Josh T

Josh T — Sun, 12 Aug 2007 03:22:18 +0000

I had to read the post a second time to follow exactly what Mr. Ferguson meant–interesting play with the semantics. Your comments post clarified it even more. I would liken the subject of his criticism to how I used to hear people abuse the expression in Hebrews 11, “Faith is the ’substance’ of things hoped for…” by forcing it into an analogy of plugging-in to electricity or “tapping-in” to God’s power. Even the word “faith” is meaningless without an object.

I can see why Wright talks about the gospel call to faith is a summons to allegiance to Christ and not merely a call to believe perfectly in the doctrine of justification by faith.

If salvation is by grace (a gift) it is the giving of the person of Jesus himself. I love it!

By: + Alan

+ Alan — Sun, 12 Aug 2007 02:39:03 +0000

Ultimately I think this view leaves us humans “down here” and God “up there” and we are merely believing in something and have no substantive connection to it, to Him.

He mentions is being some kind of Roman Catholic teaching from medieval times. That seems to me only a sort of tactic used to discredit another view. It doesn’t really deal with the meat of what he’s talking about I don’t think.

A couple of Scripture passages come to mind, both of which reflect an even larger concept found in Scripture and also in Christian thinking all along. First is 1 Corinthians 6:17 – “But whoever is joined to the Lord becomes one spirit with him.”
That’s no small statement, and not easily dismissed. I’m not sure why someone would have a problem with this notion. If we are made one spirit with the Lord, it is done BY the Lord and has nothing to do with something we bring to ourselves. It is, though, significantly more than just belief.

The other one I think of here is 2 Peter 1:4 which speaks of how we come to “share in the divine nature.” Of course these are only two Scripture quotes. I’m sure I could hunt up quite a few more that would show a little different way of looking at our union with God in Christ. It’s mystical, yes, but that doesn’t mean ethereal, non-substantial. Christians have been talking about how we have a real “metaphysical” union with God in Christ for a long time. Again, I don’t see why it should alarm anyone. Talk about “good news” – that’s good news. Real union – one which certainly comes from God and not from us.

Grace being a “thing” – yeah, I guess not really, not like other things, as something separate from God’s very life essence – I would definitely agree with that. Grace is the pouring forth of His Life essence into us. It’s a big deal for sure. OK, that’s enough from me. I got carried away there. Peace.

By: Scott

Scott — Sun, 12 Aug 2007 02:34:48 +0000

This is just great preaching!

I agree, Michael, about the issue of language. I believe it was Nicholas Lash who said, “A theologian is one who watches her/his language in the presence of God.” Besides, I am uncomfortable with a metaphysics of substance to begin with. I think something was lost in translation between homoousios and consubstantial. That is why I love preaching like this: “And so when Jesus speaks about us abiding in Him and He abiding in us – however mysterious it may be, mystical in that sense – it is a personal union.” I also like your shorthand at the end of your post.

By: Michael Spencer

Michael Spencer — Sat, 11 Aug 2007 23:00:59 +0000

It’s a matter of language. Is love a substance that you separate from persons? Do we ever speak as if it is? “I’m sending you my love.”

It’s a way of speaking that needs the occasional reminder that the rules of language apply. Some things do not exist apart from persons.

Jesus=God’s grace and God’s salvation.

By: jeuby

jeuby — Sat, 11 Aug 2007 22:56:03 +0000

i hear him and agree, but then what does Paul mean when he begins and ends almost every epistle with “Grace to you” or “Grace be with you”? And how about James 4:6 when it says “He gives more grace”? Did he say anything else that would explain those texts? I’m not saying the guy is wrong, just wishing he’d flesh out his answers and explain some other texts that would seem to indicate otherwise.

By: isaiah543

isaiah543 — Sat, 11 Aug 2007 21:44:53 +0000

Yea and Amen! That rocks.