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	<title>Comments on: No Big Thing</title>
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	<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/no-big-thing</link>
	<description>...dispatches from the post-evangelical wilderness</description>
	<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jul 2008 09:42:37 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Sean</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/no-big-thing#comment-171216</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Dec 2007 16:17:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/no-big-thing#comment-171216</guid>
		<description>"Heck, half the reason big churches DON’T know about small ministries is they try to do everything themselves and have little interest in sharing resources with other churches."

This is very profound. It frustrates me that suburban megachurches feel they have to be the ones to go into "the ghetto" and start a ministry, when there are dozens of struggling ministries already in place - and most of the staff/volunteers actually LIVE in "the ghetto" - that the megachurch would do well to support financially and with volunteers, technical expertise, etc.

The ministry I'm involved in is supported largely by the South Classis of the Reformed Church In America. I don't see anything wrong with wealthy congregations sharing their money and talents with smaller ministries: it's "give all you have to the poor" on a larger scale.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Heck, half the reason big churches DON’T know about small ministries is they try to do everything themselves and have little interest in sharing resources with other churches.&#8221;</p>
<p>This is very profound. It frustrates me that suburban megachurches feel they have to be the ones to go into &#8220;the ghetto&#8221; and start a ministry, when there are dozens of struggling ministries already in place - and most of the staff/volunteers actually LIVE in &#8220;the ghetto&#8221; - that the megachurch would do well to support financially and with volunteers, technical expertise, etc.</p>
<p>The ministry I&#8217;m involved in is supported largely by the South Classis of the Reformed Church In America. I don&#8217;t see anything wrong with wealthy congregations sharing their money and talents with smaller ministries: it&#8217;s &#8220;give all you have to the poor&#8221; on a larger scale.</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/no-big-thing#comment-170936</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Dec 2007 01:25:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/no-big-thing#comment-170936</guid>
		<description>Ken, love the Firefly reference.  Good one - definitely gets the point across!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ken, love the Firefly reference.  Good one - definitely gets the point across!</p>
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		<title>By: Josh Bridges</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/no-big-thing#comment-170597</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh Bridges</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Dec 2007 01:56:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/no-big-thing#comment-170597</guid>
		<description>Michael, bravo and amen. Nuff said.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael, bravo and amen. Nuff said.</p>
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		<title>By: Ken</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/no-big-thing#comment-170534</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Dec 2007 21:31:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/no-big-thing#comment-170534</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Large churches can serve Jesus too. My suspicion is if they do, they won’t be big very long, but that’s just my opinion.&lt;/i&gt;

As in there may be an optimum size, and if you keep trying to grow into a Megachurch you'll go over it and suffer from becoming too large?

And consider what happens to pastors of small churches (like under 100) who are under pressure to become Megachurches.  To become what they are not.  I know one who's been told by his superiors that Every Church In Our Denomination WILL Become a Megachurch, and If You Can't Grow Yours Into One, We'll Replace You With Someone Who WILL!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Large churches can serve Jesus too. My suspicion is if they do, they won’t be big very long, but that’s just my opinion.</i></p>
<p>As in there may be an optimum size, and if you keep trying to grow into a Megachurch you&#8217;ll go over it and suffer from becoming too large?</p>
<p>And consider what happens to pastors of small churches (like under 100) who are under pressure to become Megachurches.  To become what they are not.  I know one who&#8217;s been told by his superiors that Every Church In Our Denomination WILL Become a Megachurch, and If You Can&#8217;t Grow Yours Into One, We&#8217;ll Replace You With Someone Who WILL!</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Spencer</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/no-big-thing#comment-170497</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Spencer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Dec 2007 19:11:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/no-big-thing#comment-170497</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;&gt;I know you use qualifying remarks like ‘most’ and ‘not all’ in order to avoid disparaging big churches but your tone leaves no doubt that you have a stereotypical attitude towards them&lt;/em&gt;

That's a flying start. Despite my efforts to be fair, I'm still unfair. If you would like to make the case that the average megachurch in America is spending a million a year on renovating local schools, I'll be glad to publish your piece.

Not only do I not have a stereotypical attitude, I go and speak in large churches on behalf of our ministry all the time. Of course, the majority of volunteers and resources at our ministry is provided by small churches.

I thought I was using the "they won't be mega" line as a descriptive of our overall response to mercy ministries, not as a line saying big churches don't do mercy ministries. Heck, half the reason big churches DON'T know about small ministries is they try to do everything themselves and have little interest in sharing resources with other churches.
&lt;em&gt;
&gt;It’s also a bit telling that you mention good things being done by small groups, you mention the lack of good things being done by mega-churches but you fail to mention the thousands of small churches out there doing absolutely nothing for their communities.
&lt;/em&gt;
OK. I'll be sure and write a piece on how much small churches are failing to follow the outstanding example of big churches. Just make sure I don't put any percapita stats in there, or your stereotype will have trouble staying afloat.

I wish every big church was wonderful, and I am sure many of them are. Big churches have some great things going. But I will put my cards on the table: I think mega churches contain most of what's wrong with evangelicalism in America, as well as some of what's right. (And yes, many small churches are small and boring and selfish.)

I don't have time to reread this piece and see where it became a screed against large churches, but that was never my intention. Large churches can serve Jesus too. My suspicion is if they do, they won't be big very long, but that's just my opinion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>>I know you use qualifying remarks like ‘most’ and ‘not all’ in order to avoid disparaging big churches but your tone leaves no doubt that you have a stereotypical attitude towards them</em></p>
<p>That&#8217;s a flying start. Despite my efforts to be fair, I&#8217;m still unfair. If you would like to make the case that the average megachurch in America is spending a million a year on renovating local schools, I&#8217;ll be glad to publish your piece.</p>
<p>Not only do I not have a stereotypical attitude, I go and speak in large churches on behalf of our ministry all the time. Of course, the majority of volunteers and resources at our ministry is provided by small churches.</p>
<p>I thought I was using the &#8220;they won&#8217;t be mega&#8221; line as a descriptive of our overall response to mercy ministries, not as a line saying big churches don&#8217;t do mercy ministries. Heck, half the reason big churches DON&#8217;T know about small ministries is they try to do everything themselves and have little interest in sharing resources with other churches.<br />
<em><br />
>It’s also a bit telling that you mention good things being done by small groups, you mention the lack of good things being done by mega-churches but you fail to mention the thousands of small churches out there doing absolutely nothing for their communities.<br />
</em><br />
OK. I&#8217;ll be sure and write a piece on how much small churches are failing to follow the outstanding example of big churches. Just make sure I don&#8217;t put any percapita stats in there, or your stereotype will have trouble staying afloat.</p>
<p>I wish every big church was wonderful, and I am sure many of them are. Big churches have some great things going. But I will put my cards on the table: I think mega churches contain most of what&#8217;s wrong with evangelicalism in America, as well as some of what&#8217;s right. (And yes, many small churches are small and boring and selfish.)</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t have time to reread this piece and see where it became a screed against large churches, but that was never my intention. Large churches can serve Jesus too. My suspicion is if they do, they won&#8217;t be big very long, but that&#8217;s just my opinion.</p>
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		<title>By: Ken</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/no-big-thing#comment-170453</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Dec 2007 17:55:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/no-big-thing#comment-170453</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Most of them have no budget for publicity. They aren’t on Christian radio asking for money. No billboards. No golf tournaments. They aren’t getting Joel Osteen’s and Joyce Meyer’s 100 million dollars a year.&lt;/i&gt;

For every big shiny Starship Enterprise...

&lt;i&gt;In fact, for many of these small, unglamorous ministries, there is a kind of invisibility, even locally.&lt;/i&gt;

...there are hundreds to thousands of little &lt;i&gt;Firefly&lt;/i&gt;s and &lt;i&gt;Serenity&lt;/i&gt;s making their rounds, completely under the radar.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Most of them have no budget for publicity. They aren’t on Christian radio asking for money. No billboards. No golf tournaments. They aren’t getting Joel Osteen’s and Joyce Meyer’s 100 million dollars a year.</i></p>
<p>For every big shiny Starship Enterprise&#8230;</p>
<p><i>In fact, for many of these small, unglamorous ministries, there is a kind of invisibility, even locally.</i></p>
<p>&#8230;there are hundreds to thousands of little <i>Firefly</i>s and <i>Serenity</i>s making their rounds, completely under the radar.</p>
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		<title>By: Eben Flood</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/no-big-thing#comment-170439</link>
		<dc:creator>Eben Flood</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Dec 2007 17:19:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/no-big-thing#comment-170439</guid>
		<description>I know you use qualifying remarks like 'most' and 'not all' in order to avoid disparaging big churches but your tone leaves no doubt that you have a stereotypical attitude towards them, yet how many have you visited for any length of time and learned exactly what, if anything, they are doing to help their communities or the world?

My church is on the cusp of becoming one of those big churches with a 2500 seat auditorium being built right now yet we do a lot of the things you mentioned only being done by small groups.  We've made a huge impact in our local community, the most recent project being a million dollar renovation of an inner city school aimed towards educating the children of single mothers and providing them with after school care as well.  I dare say this project could only have been done by a church with our resources.  We had the money and several hundred volunteers show up for several weeks in order to get it done.  

It's also a bit telling that you mention good things being done by small groups, you mention the lack of good things being done by mega-churches but you fail to mention the thousands of small churches out there doing absolutely nothing for their communities.  I've been an evangelical since I was baptised at 8 years old and have been a member of nothing but small to medium sized churches in several different states and none of them have come close to bringing Jesus to their local communities in the way that my current big church does.  My church is getting big because of the good it's doing, everyone wants to be a part of it.

I would agree with you, though, in that big churches don't seek growth for it's own sake but as an by product of serving.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know you use qualifying remarks like &#8216;most&#8217; and &#8216;not all&#8217; in order to avoid disparaging big churches but your tone leaves no doubt that you have a stereotypical attitude towards them, yet how many have you visited for any length of time and learned exactly what, if anything, they are doing to help their communities or the world?</p>
<p>My church is on the cusp of becoming one of those big churches with a 2500 seat auditorium being built right now yet we do a lot of the things you mentioned only being done by small groups.  We&#8217;ve made a huge impact in our local community, the most recent project being a million dollar renovation of an inner city school aimed towards educating the children of single mothers and providing them with after school care as well.  I dare say this project could only have been done by a church with our resources.  We had the money and several hundred volunteers show up for several weeks in order to get it done.  </p>
<p>It&#8217;s also a bit telling that you mention good things being done by small groups, you mention the lack of good things being done by mega-churches but you fail to mention the thousands of small churches out there doing absolutely nothing for their communities.  I&#8217;ve been an evangelical since I was baptised at 8 years old and have been a member of nothing but small to medium sized churches in several different states and none of them have come close to bringing Jesus to their local communities in the way that my current big church does.  My church is getting big because of the good it&#8217;s doing, everyone wants to be a part of it.</p>
<p>I would agree with you, though, in that big churches don&#8217;t seek growth for it&#8217;s own sake but as an by product of serving.</p>
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		<title>By: Ivy Gauvin</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/no-big-thing#comment-170408</link>
		<dc:creator>Ivy Gauvin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Dec 2007 16:12:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/no-big-thing#comment-170408</guid>
		<description>Michael,
As always you get right to the heart of the matter. Thank you for your thoughtful insights into the heart of what it means to follow Jesus. "Then Jesus said to his disciples, 'Truly I tell you, it is hard for the rich to enter the kingdom of heaven'" (Mt 19:23).

Blessings!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael,<br />
As always you get right to the heart of the matter. Thank you for your thoughtful insights into the heart of what it means to follow Jesus. &#8220;Then Jesus said to his disciples, &#8216;Truly I tell you, it is hard for the rich to enter the kingdom of heaven&#8217;&#8221; (Mt 19:23).</p>
<p>Blessings!</p>
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		<title>By: Sean</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/no-big-thing#comment-170263</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Dec 2007 06:20:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/no-big-thing#comment-170263</guid>
		<description>Thanks for this, Michael. I'm a student starting an internship with a small Christian community-based ministry just like the kind you describe here. In my part of the world (west Michigan) it is very easy for truly "missional" ministries like mine and others to be drowned out by all the noise created by the market-driven church machine.

Thank you for acknowledging the small, unpretentious hands and feet of Christ in our nation today.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for this, Michael. I&#8217;m a student starting an internship with a small Christian community-based ministry just like the kind you describe here. In my part of the world (west Michigan) it is very easy for truly &#8220;missional&#8221; ministries like mine and others to be drowned out by all the noise created by the market-driven church machine.</p>
<p>Thank you for acknowledging the small, unpretentious hands and feet of Christ in our nation today.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/no-big-thing#comment-170242</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Dec 2007 03:42:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/no-big-thing#comment-170242</guid>
		<description>Brother Michael --

Thank you, from a couple of groups up Ohio way that fit your description; Waters Edge Ministry (http://www.watersedgeministry.org) and the Licking County Coalition for Housing (http://www.lcchousing.org).  If you look at the website for LCCH, i'll grant you we don't wear the Kingdom on our sleeve (can you say "federal grants"? Sure, i knew you could), but we know why we're here.

Blessed Advent to all,
Jeff</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brother Michael &#8211;</p>
<p>Thank you, from a couple of groups up Ohio way that fit your description; Waters Edge Ministry (http://www.watersedgeministry.org) and the Licking County Coalition for Housing (http://www.lcchousing.org).  If you look at the website for LCCH, i&#8217;ll grant you we don&#8217;t wear the Kingdom on our sleeve (can you say &#8220;federal grants&#8221;? Sure, i knew you could), but we know why we&#8217;re here.</p>
<p>Blessed Advent to all,<br />
Jeff</p>
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