Comments on: My Strange Experiences With An Absent Gospel: Gospel Articulations (Part 3) http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/my-strange-experiences-with-an-absent-gospel-gospel-articulations-part-3 ...dispatches from the post-evangelical wilderness Sun, 21 Mar 2010 11:42:01 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Mark Hunsaker http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/my-strange-experiences-with-an-absent-gospel-gospel-articulations-part-3/comment-page-1#comment-519894 Mark Hunsaker Tue, 24 Nov 2009 17:14:01 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=5094#comment-519894 Obed, I too agree with those who are saying to use balance, but by that definition I would suggest your professor is not in balance when he uses such strong language against a Christ-centered view. John 5:31-37 and Luke 24:13-49 provide the point of view from which we are to read the Old Testament, as given to us by our Lord Himself. I wonder, if Paul were in your professor's class, would he be treated as a poor Trinitarian if he said "For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified." Jesus is the center and substance of everything...as iMonk said, He is the face of God we shall gaze upon for all of eternity. Don't let anyone shift your gaze away from Him, even when looking at the Old Testament. "For no matter how many promises God has made, they are "Yes" in Christ. And so through him the "Amen" is spoken by us to the glory of God." - 2 Cor 1:20 In Christ, Mark Obed, I too agree with those who are saying to use balance, but by that definition I would suggest your professor is not in balance when he uses such strong language against a Christ-centered view.

John 5:31-37 and Luke 24:13-49 provide the point of view from which we are to read the Old Testament, as given to us by our Lord Himself.

I wonder, if Paul were in your professor’s class, would he be treated as a poor Trinitarian if he said “For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified.”

Jesus is the center and substance of everything…as iMonk said, He is the face of God we shall gaze upon for all of eternity. Don’t let anyone shift your gaze away from Him, even when looking at the Old Testament.

“For no matter how many promises God has made, they are “Yes” in Christ. And so through him the “Amen” is spoken by us to the glory of God.” – 2 Cor 1:20

In Christ,
Mark

]]> By: Brigitte http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/my-strange-experiences-with-an-absent-gospel-gospel-articulations-part-3/comment-page-1#comment-519810 Brigitte Mon, 23 Nov 2009 20:51:15 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=5094#comment-519810 Hi Christiane: I hope you are right. :) But he needs the words and content, too. There is no conflict here. Hi Christiane: I hope you are right. :) But he needs the words and content, too. There is no conflict here.

]]> By: Headless Unicorn Guy http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/my-strange-experiences-with-an-absent-gospel-gospel-articulations-part-3/comment-page-1#comment-519783 Headless Unicorn Guy Mon, 23 Nov 2009 17:06:36 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=5094#comment-519783 Because it can all too easily become nothing more than a Party Line of proof texts, doubleplusduckspeaked. Because it can all too easily become nothing more than a Party Line of proof texts, doubleplusduckspeaked.

]]> By: iMonk http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/my-strange-experiences-with-an-absent-gospel-gospel-articulations-part-3/comment-page-1#comment-519703 iMonk Sun, 22 Nov 2009 23:01:19 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=5094#comment-519703 Great question. I can't imagine someone saying "Less Gospel. More Culture war." I am willing to see a difference in how I present foundational content, but faithfulness to Gospel articulation isn't so much a matter of communication as letting the Bible tell its own story its way. I don't think we have talked rightly about anything unless we've related it- in some way and at some point- to the Gospel. Be clear here: I believe there is great freedom in how we can approach this and I'm not advocating any sort of slavish sameness. We aren't reciting the pledge. We're looking for the right place to bring in the Gospel. I'm doing a talk tonight on the metaphor of a "journey" as a way to describe life. The Gospel will come in at the very end. Great question. I can’t imagine someone saying “Less Gospel. More Culture war.” I am willing to see a difference in how I present foundational content, but faithfulness to Gospel articulation isn’t so much a matter of communication as letting the Bible tell its own story its way. I don’t think we have talked rightly about anything unless we’ve related it- in some way and at some point- to the Gospel.

Be clear here: I believe there is great freedom in how we can approach this and I’m not advocating any sort of slavish sameness. We aren’t reciting the pledge. We’re looking for the right place to bring in the Gospel. I’m doing a talk tonight on the metaphor of a “journey” as a way to describe life. The Gospel will come in at the very end.

]]> By: Jeremy http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/my-strange-experiences-with-an-absent-gospel-gospel-articulations-part-3/comment-page-1#comment-519702 Jeremy Sun, 22 Nov 2009 22:27:27 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=5094#comment-519702 Michael - If a pastor preaches to a small congregation weekly, and a majority of the congregation are "believers", how often do you recommend articulating the gospel message? Is it wiser to spend most of your weeks exploring "kingdom living" or discipleship focused sermons? And if one goes down this road, at what point does the pastor find himself accused of preaching "law" because discipleship involves many challenging "imperatives"? Or is it a constant balance of Kingdom/discipleship messages always soaked in the grace of the gospel? Michael –

If a pastor preaches to a small congregation weekly, and a majority of the congregation are “believers”, how often do you recommend articulating the gospel message? Is it wiser to spend most of your weeks exploring “kingdom living” or discipleship focused sermons? And if one goes down this road, at what point does the pastor find himself accused of preaching “law” because discipleship involves many challenging “imperatives”?

Or is it a constant balance of Kingdom/discipleship messages always soaked in the grace of the gospel?

]]> By: Christiane http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/my-strange-experiences-with-an-absent-gospel-gospel-articulations-part-3/comment-page-1#comment-519672 Christiane Sun, 22 Nov 2009 02:56:24 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=5094#comment-519672 Brigitte, perhaps in YOUR kindness to this man, in his loneliness, you reflected the kindness of Christ. When you took time to listen to this man, to hear him patiently, you taught him about Christ in a way that many others could not. When you shared with him that you were a Christian, that was special. If you had done all the talking, he might not have remembered much about what you said. But I imagine he remembers the kind lady who spent time listening to him when he was lonely, and, yes, that the person was a Christian. And that's important. Some things we do for others tell them more about Christ than our words ever could. Brigitte, perhaps in YOUR kindness to this man, in his loneliness, you reflected the kindness of Christ.
When you took time to listen to this man, to hear him patiently, you taught him about Christ in a way that many others could not. When you shared with him that you were a Christian,
that was special.
If you had done all the talking, he might not have remembered much about what you said.
But I imagine he remembers the kind lady who spent time listening to him when he was lonely, and, yes, that the person was a Christian. And that’s important.
Some things we do for others tell them more about Christ than our words ever could.

]]> By: Brigitte http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/my-strange-experiences-with-an-absent-gospel-gospel-articulations-part-3/comment-page-1#comment-519653 Brigitte Sat, 21 Nov 2009 17:16:28 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=5094#comment-519653 It may or may not be picky. It could also mean that you don't agree at all. I don't want to be insufferable, but definitions are a huge thing. It may or may not be picky. It could also mean that you don’t agree at all. I don’t want to be insufferable, but definitions are a huge thing.

]]> By: Brigitte http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/my-strange-experiences-with-an-absent-gospel-gospel-articulations-part-3/comment-page-1#comment-519652 Brigitte Sat, 21 Nov 2009 17:06:46 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=5094#comment-519652 Where ever you are, you can say that your Christian faith is about forgiveness of sins in Christ and not other things, first an foremost. Moralizing religion or atheism you can find anywhere. I've had this talk with a Hindu man, a stranger, looking down at the flu shot clinic from the railing of the upper level of the mall. He talked so much about India and Hinduism and Temples, I could barely get a word in. I just forced myself in and said that I was a Christian and believe in the forgiveness of sins. He says to me: "But why do you sin? You should not sin." I tell him, but we do sin all the time, in this way and that way and at least in our attitudes and thoughts." He looks at me like he got it. He knew that he was like that. Was it important that I was nice to him? Yea, he seemed lonely and he seemed like he needed to talk. But I am sure he sensed no special illumination. :) Where ever you are, you can say that your Christian faith is about forgiveness of sins in Christ and not other things, first an foremost. Moralizing religion or atheism you can find anywhere.

I’ve had this talk with a Hindu man, a stranger, looking down at the flu shot clinic from the railing of the upper level of the mall. He talked so much about India and Hinduism and Temples, I could barely get a word in. I just forced myself in and said that I was a Christian and believe in the forgiveness of sins. He says to me: “But why do you sin? You should not sin.” I tell him, but we do sin all the time, in this way and that way and at least in our attitudes and thoughts.” He looks at me like he got it. He knew that he was like that.

Was it important that I was nice to him? Yea, he seemed lonely and he seemed like he needed to talk. But I am sure he sensed no special illumination. :)

]]> By: Brigitte http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/my-strange-experiences-with-an-absent-gospel-gospel-articulations-part-3/comment-page-1#comment-519651 Brigitte Sat, 21 Nov 2009 16:57:08 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=5094#comment-519651 The Spirit uses words. The Announcement is word and means of grace and Spirit. "The Holy Spirit has called me by the Gospel." (Small Catechism). And Rom 1:16 again. The Spirit uses words. The Announcement is word and means of grace and Spirit.
“The Holy Spirit has called me by the Gospel.” (Small Catechism). And Rom 1:16 again.

]]> By: iMonk http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/my-strange-experiences-with-an-absent-gospel-gospel-articulations-part-3/comment-page-1#comment-519650 iMonk Sat, 21 Nov 2009 15:47:17 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=5094#comment-519650 Rarely has anyone gotten me as right as Dubbahdee. Thank you sir. Rarely has anyone gotten me as right as Dubbahdee. Thank you sir.

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