Comments on: My Gear (Part 1) http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/my-gear-part-1 ...dispatches from the post-evangelical wilderness Sat, 21 Nov 2009 20:48:13 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: MAJ Tony http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/my-gear-part-1/comment-page-3#comment-424446 MAJ Tony Mon, 06 Apr 2009 21:10:51 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=3015#comment-424446 Anne G: it's actually "pantocrator" or "pantokrator" (no "e") [greek Παντοκράτωρ] meaning "Almighty" or "All-Powerful." Anne G: it’s actually “pantocrator” or “pantokrator” (no “e”) [greek Παντοκράτωρ] meaning “Almighty” or “All-Powerful.”

]]> By: Steph http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/my-gear-part-1/comment-page-3#comment-423258 Steph Sun, 05 Apr 2009 17:41:36 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=3015#comment-423258 http://www.flickr.com/photos/9305363@N08/3415347038/ Description under picture. I have far to go to catch up with the rest of you, but I think I have the cutest bear! http://www.flickr.com/photos/9305363@N08/3415347038/

Description under picture. I have far to go to catch up with the rest of you, but I think I have the cutest bear!

]]> By: Chris Scott http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/my-gear-part-1/comment-page-3#comment-422567 Chris Scott Sat, 04 Apr 2009 23:57:53 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=3015#comment-422567 I kind of wish I had a cross or something to wear around my neck ... just as a reminder sometimes. Then again, many people who don't even know who Christ is wear crosses, so I don't want to be like them. I'd rather people saw Christ in my actions than on my neck. I kind of wish I had a cross or something to wear around my neck … just as a reminder sometimes. Then again, many people who don’t even know who Christ is wear crosses, so I don’t want to be like them.

I’d rather people saw Christ in my actions than on my neck.

]]> By: Anne G http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/my-gear-part-1/comment-page-3#comment-422289 Anne G Sat, 04 Apr 2009 17:36:21 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=3015#comment-422289 Bob Brague and Brian, Thomas Howard, from Evangelical Royalty, wrote a book called Evangelical is Not Enough. He gives an excellent description of symbolism, the use of symbolism in worship, and why human beings respond to symbols. If you wonder if you might ever be interested, you might want to look at a picture of an icon called the Pantocreator. There are many versions, like the one Michael has on this blog, but also many different ones. There is a lot of symbolic information in it, but also, centuries of prayer inspired by it. You might find the experience interesting. You don't worship the icon. Each part of the picture tells you something about the Person who created the world and our relationship to HIm. You "gaze" at it, you don't stare at it and you don't worship the icon. Just a thought. AnneG in NC Bob Brague and Brian, Thomas Howard, from Evangelical Royalty, wrote a book called Evangelical is Not Enough. He gives an excellent description of symbolism, the use of symbolism in worship, and why human beings respond to symbols.
If you wonder if you might ever be interested, you might want to look at a picture of an icon called the Pantocreator. There are many versions, like the one Michael has on this blog, but also many different ones. There is a lot of symbolic information in it, but also, centuries of prayer inspired by it. You might find the experience interesting. You don’t worship the icon. Each part of the picture tells you something about the Person who created the world and our relationship to HIm. You “gaze” at it, you don’t stare at it and you don’t worship the icon. Just a thought. AnneG in NC

]]> By: Anne G http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/my-gear-part-1/comment-page-3#comment-422284 Anne G Sat, 04 Apr 2009 17:26:51 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=3015#comment-422284 Mike, I love this thread. Very interesting. I didn't think I had much gear, but, when I looked around I realized we had amassed quite a collection: Several rosaries from Rome, blessed by JPII, a 30+ year old rosary, my first given to me by a friend and out for repair, a 1 decade one from Guatemala and a gold rosary bracelet from a friend. Also, a couple of Alan's rosaries soon on the way to my son and grandson. I have an icon of Our Lady of Tenderness in the entryway, OLPH in the bedroom along with the Pantocreator, both from Greece, an egg with Our Lady Hedegira from the Czech Republic, who looks into the kitchen where I spend a lot of time and 2 paintings on glass with Our Lady on one and St Michael the Archangel on the other, also from the Czech Republic. a small, ceramic Our Lady Protegenos my son bought when he was 8 for Mother's Day. A small image statue of Our Lady of Guadalupe from Guatemala, a copy of the Presentation from a 12th Century altar from Heiligencreuz in Austria. Every bedroom has a cross, Christus Rex or Crucifix. Also in the entryway, an icon I embroidered of Jesus with the surprised sheep that reminds me He is always there. This along with several bookshelves of theology, spirituality and devotion, not to mention Bibles of various translations in 2 languages. Interesting to make an inventory and realize how important religious art, imagery and symbolism are in our home. Mike, I love this thread. Very interesting. I didn’t think I had much gear, but, when I looked around I realized we had amassed quite a collection: Several rosaries from Rome, blessed by JPII, a 30+ year old rosary, my first given to me by a friend and out for repair, a 1 decade one from Guatemala and a gold rosary bracelet from a friend. Also, a couple of Alan’s rosaries soon on the way to my son and grandson. I have an icon of Our Lady of Tenderness in the entryway, OLPH in the bedroom along with the Pantocreator, both from Greece, an egg with Our Lady Hedegira from the Czech Republic, who looks into the kitchen where I spend a lot of time and 2 paintings on glass with Our Lady on one and St Michael the Archangel on the other, also from the Czech Republic. a small, ceramic Our Lady Protegenos my son bought when he was 8 for Mother’s Day. A small image statue of Our Lady of Guadalupe from Guatemala, a copy of the Presentation from a 12th Century altar from Heiligencreuz in Austria. Every bedroom has a cross, Christus Rex or Crucifix. Also in the entryway, an icon I embroidered of Jesus with the surprised sheep that reminds me He is always there. This along with several bookshelves of theology, spirituality and devotion, not to mention Bibles of various translations in 2 languages. Interesting to make an inventory and realize how important religious art, imagery and symbolism are in our home.

]]> By: + Alan http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/my-gear-part-1/comment-page-3#comment-422242 + Alan Sat, 04 Apr 2009 15:49:25 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=3015#comment-422242 Well, I've not seen the cross, but I have stood and walked around in what's left of Cong Abbey. :) Brian - on the defensive thing, for me as a Catholic I'll answer - it's what I like to call PTESD - that's <i>Post Traumatic Ecclesiastical Stress Disorder</i> - it's when you hang around a lot of "hyper Protestants" (I say hyper because they're certainly not all that way) and get proverbially shot at, have to dodge so much polemical grenade shrapnel, etc. for so long, when you are back in the world and somebody <i>throws</i> question at you that's just normal in their head, to us it sometimes sounds like an AK-47 round going off - we hit the floor and start shooting back - auto pilot. It's not a good thing, but may be a little bit helpful as an explanation. Peace to all in this house! <i>what was that!!?? hit the dirt!!!</i> Oh, sorry - crap! crap! Well, I’ve not seen the cross, but I have stood and walked around in what’s left of Cong Abbey. :)

Brian – on the defensive thing, for me as a Catholic I’ll answer – it’s what I like to call PTESD – that’s Post Traumatic Ecclesiastical Stress Disorder – it’s when you hang around a lot of “hyper Protestants” (I say hyper because they’re certainly not all that way) and get proverbially shot at, have to dodge so much polemical grenade shrapnel, etc. for so long, when you are back in the world and somebody throws question at you that’s just normal in their head, to us it sometimes sounds like an AK-47 round going off – we hit the floor and start shooting back – auto pilot. It’s not a good thing, but may be a little bit helpful as an explanation.

Peace to all in this house! what was that!!?? hit the dirt!!! Oh, sorry – crap! crap!

]]> By: sue kephart http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/my-gear-part-1/comment-page-3#comment-422223 sue kephart Sat, 04 Apr 2009 15:19:00 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=3015#comment-422223 I have the 'temptation in the desert' icon by Br. Lavrans of Gethsemani Abbey. It was given to me by my husband when I made my commitment to the Lay Cistercians. It,of course, has a story regarding my own seach for Holiness. I also have the famous Holy Trinity icon. I have quite a number of cross necklaces which I almost always wear. Because I am a Christian. As far as the Rosary goes: I am not a RC but I don't see the difference in RCs or others praying the Rosary and Praise and Worship Christians singing Praise songs over and over. They are both mantras. I have the ‘temptation in the desert’ icon by Br. Lavrans of Gethsemani Abbey. It was given to me by my husband when I made my commitment to the Lay Cistercians. It,of course, has a story regarding my own seach for Holiness.

I also have the famous Holy Trinity icon. I have quite a number of cross necklaces which I almost always wear. Because I am a Christian.

As far as the Rosary goes: I am not a RC but I don’t see the difference in RCs or others praying the Rosary and Praise and Worship Christians singing Praise songs over and over. They are both mantras.

]]> By: Chrissl http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/my-gear-part-1/comment-page-3#comment-422210 Chrissl Sat, 04 Apr 2009 14:55:23 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=3015#comment-422210 I spent many happy years as a Quaker (now a RC), so I can understand why someone might be baffled by others' use of religious "props." Ultimately, I think, most of us would agree that if your heart is right, the props don't matter. As for the possessions we're describing -- it's not a case of "needing" them in order to practice one's religion -- it is more like, these are mementos, pieces of art, something to hold onto or look at as a reminder. Some people do come to depend on the props more than they should. I've seen some pretty wild statements out there that sound more like magic than Christianity. But in my experience, it's not that the objects produce the attitude but vice versa -- people who are not ready to simply trust in Jesus make up elaborate rituals that they believe will somehow protect them from evil. As for my own "gear" -- I don't think about them much, but there are a few crosses in my house, a blessing tacked up next to my door and a palm-leaf cross over it. I wear a San Damiano cross on a chain as a routine part of my "underwear." I also have a copy of the Liturgy of the Hours in my nightstand (though I don't read it very often). And several Bibles in the bookcase, including a KJV given to me when I was 12 and a couple of modern translations. Interestingly, while I am a medieval historian researching the history of rosary and Christian prayer beads, and while I am a Catholic, I rarely pray the rosary myself. Because of the history project, I have quite a collection of beads of various forms, but it's hardly fair to count them as "gear" {grin}. I've written a series of essays on Protestants and the Rosary that some may find of interest: <a href="http://paternosters.blogspot.com/2007/04/protestants-and-rosary.html" rel="nofollow"><b>Part I: Protestants and the Rosary</b></a> <a href="http://paternosters.blogspot.com/2007/04/protestants-ii-worship-honor-and-virgin.html" rel="nofollow"><b>Part II: Worship, honor, and the Virgin Mary</b></a> <a href="http://paternosters.blogspot.com/2007/03/protestants-iii-addressing-saints.html" rel="nofollow"><b>Part III: Addressing saints</b></a> <a href="http://paternosters.blogspot.com/2007/03/protestants-iv-can-protestants-hail.html" rel="nofollow"><b>Part IV: Can Protestants hail Mary?</b></a> I spent many happy years as a Quaker (now a RC), so I can understand why someone might be baffled by others’ use of religious “props.” Ultimately, I think, most of us would agree that if your heart is right, the props don’t matter. As for the possessions we’re describing — it’s not a case of “needing” them in order to practice one’s religion — it is more like, these are mementos, pieces of art, something to hold onto or look at as a reminder.

Some people do come to depend on the props more than they should. I’ve seen some pretty wild statements out there that sound more like magic than Christianity. But in my experience, it’s not that the objects produce the attitude but vice versa — people who are not ready to simply trust in Jesus make up elaborate rituals that they believe will somehow protect them from evil.

As for my own “gear” — I don’t think about them much, but there are a few crosses in my house, a blessing tacked up next to my door and a palm-leaf cross over it. I wear a San Damiano cross on a chain as a routine part of my “underwear.” I also have a copy of the Liturgy of the Hours in my nightstand (though I don’t read it very often). And several Bibles in the bookcase, including a KJV given to me when I was 12 and a couple of modern translations.

Interestingly, while I am a medieval historian researching the history of rosary and Christian prayer beads, and while I am a Catholic, I rarely pray the rosary myself. Because of the history project, I have quite a collection of beads of various forms, but it’s hardly fair to count them as “gear” {grin}.

I’ve written a series of essays on Protestants and the Rosary that some may find of interest:
Part I: Protestants and the Rosary
Part II: Worship, honor, and the Virgin Mary
Part III: Addressing saints
Part IV: Can Protestants hail Mary?

]]> By: Martha http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/my-gear-part-1/comment-page-3#comment-422087 Martha Sat, 04 Apr 2009 11:49:52 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=3015#comment-422087 Radagast, Wikipedia has done all the heavy lifting already: "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross_of_Cong The Cross of Cong is an early 12th century Irish Christian ornamented processional cusped cross, which was made at the behest of Turlough O’Connor (d. 1156), King of Connacht and High King of Ireland. It was designed to be placed on top of a religious staff or crosier. It was made for the Cathedral church of the period that was located at Tuam, County Galway, Ireland. The cross was subsequently moved to Cong Abbey (an Abbey located at Cong, County Mayo, near the border with County Galway), from which it takes its name. It is also a reliquary, designed to hold a piece of the purported True Cross. This gave it additional importance as an object of reverence and was undoubtedly the reason for the object's elaborate beauty. Today the cross is stored in the National Museum of Ireland, Dublin, but was previously stored in the Museum of the Royal Irish Academy, Dublin. It is considered one of finest specimens of metalwork and decorative art of its age in Western Europe." Which is why I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw it re-imagined (that's the kindest term for what they did) as the 'vampire cross' in the film. On the one hand, I was delighted that the art department knew of this important art work, on the other hand, I thought it was dashed cheek to use it in such a way (now, had they used it as a famous vampire-dispelling cross, I might have been more gruntled) :-) Radagast, Wikipedia has done all the heavy lifting already:

“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross_of_Cong

The Cross of Cong is an early 12th century Irish Christian ornamented processional cusped cross, which was made at the behest of Turlough O’Connor (d. 1156), King of Connacht and High King of Ireland. It was designed to be placed on top of a religious staff or crosier. It was made for the Cathedral church of the period that was located at Tuam, County Galway, Ireland. The cross was subsequently moved to Cong Abbey (an Abbey located at Cong, County Mayo, near the border with County Galway), from which it takes its name. It is also a reliquary, designed to hold a piece of the purported True Cross. This gave it additional importance as an object of reverence and was undoubtedly the reason for the object’s elaborate beauty.

Today the cross is stored in the National Museum of Ireland, Dublin, but was previously stored in the Museum of the Royal Irish Academy, Dublin. It is considered one of finest specimens of metalwork and decorative art of its age in Western Europe.”

Which is why I couldn’t believe my eyes when I saw it re-imagined (that’s the kindest term for what they did) as the ‘vampire cross’ in the film.

On the one hand, I was delighted that the art department knew of this important art work, on the other hand, I thought it was dashed cheek to use it in such a way (now, had they used it as a famous vampire-dispelling cross, I might have been more gruntled) :-)

]]> By: Radagast http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/my-gear-part-1/comment-page-3#comment-421823 Radagast Sat, 04 Apr 2009 04:14:38 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=3015#comment-421823 Martha, Now I have to go look up the Cross of Cong... Martha,

Now I have to go look up the Cross of Cong…

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