<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Missional Street Cred: The Conversation Continues</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/missional-street-cred-the-conversation-continues/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/missional-street-cred-the-conversation-continues</link>
	<description>...dispatches from the post-evangelical wilderness</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 19:14:02 -0500</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: Rob Gill</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/missional-street-cred-the-conversation-continues/comment-page-1#comment-246978</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob Gill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jun 2008 16:08:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/missional-street-cred-the-conversation-continues#comment-246978</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m a newcomer to this blog, but I was craving the sight of one word that I don&#039;t see here in relation to the missional/emergent church.  And maybe the word is implicit in all of your minds.  That word is &quot;incarnational&quot;.  The defining characteristic of a healthy church is not in numbers, converts, programs, etc.  Is a church reaching out to the community in love?  Are we being Christ&#039;s hands and feet? Unchurched people don&#039;t want to come to our churches.  They think we are a bunch of hateful, bigoted hypocrits.  They believe we are too politically active and I don&#039;t need to mention which is the &quot;good&quot; party and which is the &quot;bad&quot; party. I turned on the TV and began watching a mega-church preacher who has been in the news lately.  He began railing against tattoos and piercings and how you didn&#039;t see that kind of thing in the good old days.  What message of exclusion does that immediately send to some young seeker with tattoos?  I guess I&#039;m out!

Lets begin to realize what a great love Christ showed to our miserable carcasses and simply love with devotion and obedience to our Savior&#039;s call.  The prophet Jeremiah preached and prophesied for 25 years without results but he was credited by God as having been obedient.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m a newcomer to this blog, but I was craving the sight of one word that I don&#8217;t see here in relation to the missional/emergent church.  And maybe the word is implicit in all of your minds.  That word is &#8220;incarnational&#8221;.  The defining characteristic of a healthy church is not in numbers, converts, programs, etc.  Is a church reaching out to the community in love?  Are we being Christ&#8217;s hands and feet? Unchurched people don&#8217;t want to come to our churches.  They think we are a bunch of hateful, bigoted hypocrits.  They believe we are too politically active and I don&#8217;t need to mention which is the &#8220;good&#8221; party and which is the &#8220;bad&#8221; party. I turned on the TV and began watching a mega-church preacher who has been in the news lately.  He began railing against tattoos and piercings and how you didn&#8217;t see that kind of thing in the good old days.  What message of exclusion does that immediately send to some young seeker with tattoos?  I guess I&#8217;m out!</p>
<p>Lets begin to realize what a great love Christ showed to our miserable carcasses and simply love with devotion and obedience to our Savior&#8217;s call.  The prophet Jeremiah preached and prophesied for 25 years without results but he was credited by God as having been obedient.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Eclectic Christian - Michael Bell</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/missional-street-cred-the-conversation-continues/comment-page-1#comment-244586</link>
		<dc:creator>Eclectic Christian - Michael Bell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 23:43:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/missional-street-cred-the-conversation-continues#comment-244586</guid>
		<description>Good points Bob Sacamento.  Unfortunately all we have right now is anecdotal evidence as to the relationship between mega-churches and smaller churches.  I know that there are some studies that are underway to study this phenomena, so it will be interesting to see what they come up with.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good points Bob Sacamento.  Unfortunately all we have right now is anecdotal evidence as to the relationship between mega-churches and smaller churches.  I know that there are some studies that are underway to study this phenomena, so it will be interesting to see what they come up with.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: zach</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/missional-street-cred-the-conversation-continues/comment-page-1#comment-244494</link>
		<dc:creator>zach</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 16:43:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/missional-street-cred-the-conversation-continues#comment-244494</guid>
		<description>This post reflects some of my own feelings recently about how missional &quot;methods,&quot; when they become a central focus, turn into something opposite of the missional spirit. That is, they become more about culture and style in church life that makes ME feel good rather than risky, sacrificial, relational love for the world that turns the church inside out (and makes converts in the process).

Thanks for the sobering word.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This post reflects some of my own feelings recently about how missional &#8220;methods,&#8221; when they become a central focus, turn into something opposite of the missional spirit. That is, they become more about culture and style in church life that makes ME feel good rather than risky, sacrificial, relational love for the world that turns the church inside out (and makes converts in the process).</p>
<p>Thanks for the sobering word.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jeff</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/missional-street-cred-the-conversation-continues/comment-page-1#comment-243965</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 18:52:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/missional-street-cred-the-conversation-continues#comment-243965</guid>
		<description>Just getting to this post now.  Fantastically put; I got a lot out of it.  Thanks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just getting to this post now.  Fantastically put; I got a lot out of it.  Thanks.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Bob Sacamento</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/missional-street-cred-the-conversation-continues/comment-page-1#comment-243963</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Sacamento</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 18:39:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/missional-street-cred-the-conversation-continues#comment-243963</guid>
		<description>Michael Bell wrote,

&lt;i&gt;People tend to look for a reason to stay in a church, not a reason to leave. If people are leaving your church, it is time to take a good long look inward, and say “how are we not meeting their needs.”&lt;/i&gt;
The way it seems to work, as far as I can tell, is that a couple in their twenties or thirties who are desparate to keep their little tykes interested in church.  The mega church out by the highway has bells and whistles and smoke and mirrors that their neighbor&#039;s little tykes all just love.  The small neighborhood church can&#039;t afford all that stuff.  So they take the kids out to the mega-church.  I&#039;ll admit that there are alot of churches are small precisely becuase they don&#039;t &lt;i&gt;do&lt;/i&gt; anything.  But I have spent alot of time in the mega-est church in the country, and I have spent alot of time in absolutely great churches with less than 1000 members, and I just don&#039;t see what of any substance the megas are offering that the medium size churches aren&#039;t.

&lt;i&gt;The mega-churches that I am familiar with around here seem to be doing a lot to introduce non-churched people to Christ. Unfortunately the same cannot be said for many of the smaller churches with which I have been associated.&lt;/i&gt;
I guess I can&#039;t speak to the specific situation of the mega-churches in your area.  But I think that the national story is different.  It wasn&#039;t more than a couple of months ago that one of the big-time mega church gurus -- Bill Hybels, I think -- was shocked, shocked I tell you!, to find out that almost all of the members in his church were &lt;i&gt;not&lt;/i&gt; previously &quot;unchurched&quot; converts, but &quot;churched&quot; people siphoned off from smaller churches.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael Bell wrote,</p>
<p><i>People tend to look for a reason to stay in a church, not a reason to leave. If people are leaving your church, it is time to take a good long look inward, and say “how are we not meeting their needs.”</i><br />
The way it seems to work, as far as I can tell, is that a couple in their twenties or thirties who are desparate to keep their little tykes interested in church.  The mega church out by the highway has bells and whistles and smoke and mirrors that their neighbor&#8217;s little tykes all just love.  The small neighborhood church can&#8217;t afford all that stuff.  So they take the kids out to the mega-church.  I&#8217;ll admit that there are alot of churches are small precisely becuase they don&#8217;t <i>do</i> anything.  But I have spent alot of time in the mega-est church in the country, and I have spent alot of time in absolutely great churches with less than 1000 members, and I just don&#8217;t see what of any substance the megas are offering that the medium size churches aren&#8217;t.</p>
<p><i>The mega-churches that I am familiar with around here seem to be doing a lot to introduce non-churched people to Christ. Unfortunately the same cannot be said for many of the smaller churches with which I have been associated.</i><br />
I guess I can&#8217;t speak to the specific situation of the mega-churches in your area.  But I think that the national story is different.  It wasn&#8217;t more than a couple of months ago that one of the big-time mega church gurus &#8212; Bill Hybels, I think &#8212; was shocked, shocked I tell you!, to find out that almost all of the members in his church were <i>not</i> previously &#8220;unchurched&#8221; converts, but &#8220;churched&#8221; people siphoned off from smaller churches.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: vangelicmonk</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/missional-street-cred-the-conversation-continues/comment-page-1#comment-243945</link>
		<dc:creator>vangelicmonk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 17:03:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/missional-street-cred-the-conversation-continues#comment-243945</guid>
		<description>As someone who was part of an &quot;Emerging/Missional&quot; church less than a year ago I have both an appreciation for these churches and some concerns.  No church is alike and this is true for those of the &quot;Emerging/Missional&quot; aspect.  Although God does know the numbers and the fruit, I don&#039;t think it is wrong to analyze (just as Emerging/Emergent analyzed the Evangelical/Seeker Sensitive Church Model) the missional model(s) and see what is and is not working for the Kingdom of God.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As someone who was part of an &#8220;Emerging/Missional&#8221; church less than a year ago I have both an appreciation for these churches and some concerns.  No church is alike and this is true for those of the &#8220;Emerging/Missional&#8221; aspect.  Although God does know the numbers and the fruit, I don&#8217;t think it is wrong to analyze (just as Emerging/Emergent analyzed the Evangelical/Seeker Sensitive Church Model) the missional model(s) and see what is and is not working for the Kingdom of God.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Eclectic Christian - Michael Bell</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/missional-street-cred-the-conversation-continues/comment-page-1#comment-243242</link>
		<dc:creator>Eclectic Christian - Michael Bell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 May 2008 00:35:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/missional-street-cred-the-conversation-continues#comment-243242</guid>
		<description>I had posted the following on my own blog back in March. I thought it was relevant enough (and short enough) to cross post here...

I have heard or read four times in the last month that small churches are being destroyed by mega-churches. The argument typically goes that mega-churches offer so much in the way of family programming, skilled musicians, and outstanding preaching, that it is hard for a smaller church to compete.

It seems that this argument is a little short sighted for several reasons:

1. People tend to look for a reason to stay in a church, not a reason to leave. If people are leaving your church, it is time to take a good long look inward, and say “how are we not meeting their needs.” Are they not being fed through the teaching of the word? Then how can that be changed? Are they experiencing issues with the music and worship? What can be done in that area? Are there few youth in the church? What can be done to reach out to the youth of the community?

2. If people are not excited about what is happening in your church, whatever that might be, then your church will not grow. They will find some excuse to go to the newer, bigger church down the road. What is an area of ministry in your church in which God seems to be working, and around which excitement can grow? How can you build on this area? What areas of ministry are serving as a drag on your church.

3. Strive for excellence! You don’t want to practice Tuesday night for Sunday worship, then that is fine, but then you are excluding yourself from the Worship team. You don’t want to take the Sunday School Teacher training? Well that is fine, then you don’t teach Sunday School. People will see and appreciated excellence and be turned off by half hearted attempts.

4. Have key members of your leadership visit other churches that are growing. What is working for them that is not working for you?

5. Most importantly, work together with your leadership and your congregation to develop a vision and direction. If your people can see a positive future they will want to be part of it.

For the past 12 years we have been part of churches that have had less than 80 people. The energy that it requires to run a church of 80 well is not that different than the energy it takes to run a church of 300. Reflecting back over the last 12 years I wonder if we might have been able to accomplish a lot more for the cause of Christ, if our energy has been used to help a medium size church grow, rather than used to try and sustain a smaller struggling church. The mega-churches that I am familiar with around here seem to be doing a lot to introduce non-churched people to Christ. Unfortunately the same cannot be said for many of the smaller churches with which I have been associated.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I had posted the following on my own blog back in March. I thought it was relevant enough (and short enough) to cross post here&#8230;</p>
<p>I have heard or read four times in the last month that small churches are being destroyed by mega-churches. The argument typically goes that mega-churches offer so much in the way of family programming, skilled musicians, and outstanding preaching, that it is hard for a smaller church to compete.</p>
<p>It seems that this argument is a little short sighted for several reasons:</p>
<p>1. People tend to look for a reason to stay in a church, not a reason to leave. If people are leaving your church, it is time to take a good long look inward, and say “how are we not meeting their needs.” Are they not being fed through the teaching of the word? Then how can that be changed? Are they experiencing issues with the music and worship? What can be done in that area? Are there few youth in the church? What can be done to reach out to the youth of the community?</p>
<p>2. If people are not excited about what is happening in your church, whatever that might be, then your church will not grow. They will find some excuse to go to the newer, bigger church down the road. What is an area of ministry in your church in which God seems to be working, and around which excitement can grow? How can you build on this area? What areas of ministry are serving as a drag on your church.</p>
<p>3. Strive for excellence! You don’t want to practice Tuesday night for Sunday worship, then that is fine, but then you are excluding yourself from the Worship team. You don’t want to take the Sunday School Teacher training? Well that is fine, then you don’t teach Sunday School. People will see and appreciated excellence and be turned off by half hearted attempts.</p>
<p>4. Have key members of your leadership visit other churches that are growing. What is working for them that is not working for you?</p>
<p>5. Most importantly, work together with your leadership and your congregation to develop a vision and direction. If your people can see a positive future they will want to be part of it.</p>
<p>For the past 12 years we have been part of churches that have had less than 80 people. The energy that it requires to run a church of 80 well is not that different than the energy it takes to run a church of 300. Reflecting back over the last 12 years I wonder if we might have been able to accomplish a lot more for the cause of Christ, if our energy has been used to help a medium size church grow, rather than used to try and sustain a smaller struggling church. The mega-churches that I am familiar with around here seem to be doing a lot to introduce non-churched people to Christ. Unfortunately the same cannot be said for many of the smaller churches with which I have been associated.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Stephen Feather</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/missional-street-cred-the-conversation-continues/comment-page-1#comment-243088</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen Feather</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 May 2008 12:16:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/missional-street-cred-the-conversation-continues#comment-243088</guid>
		<description>I heard those two terrible words exit our pastor&#039;s mouth last month, &quot;Church Growth&quot;.

Terrible, not in that we shouldn&#039;t desire to see the lost come into the Kingdom, but that &quot;church growth&quot; was not to be God centered, but program centered.

Raise more money.  Build new buildings.  Change the programs.

Somehow, hit your knees in prayer was left out.

And the focus is on every area of our church.  From the senior adults down to the children&#039;s ministry.  Throw money at it and they will come.

What is this growth we seek?  Another 3000 names on the roles that never darken the doorsteps?

&quot;And God added to the church daily...&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I heard those two terrible words exit our pastor&#8217;s mouth last month, &#8220;Church Growth&#8221;.</p>
<p>Terrible, not in that we shouldn&#8217;t desire to see the lost come into the Kingdom, but that &#8220;church growth&#8221; was not to be God centered, but program centered.</p>
<p>Raise more money.  Build new buildings.  Change the programs.</p>
<p>Somehow, hit your knees in prayer was left out.</p>
<p>And the focus is on every area of our church.  From the senior adults down to the children&#8217;s ministry.  Throw money at it and they will come.</p>
<p>What is this growth we seek?  Another 3000 names on the roles that never darken the doorsteps?</p>
<p>&#8220;And God added to the church daily&#8230;&#8221;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: K.W. Leslie</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/missional-street-cred-the-conversation-continues/comment-page-1#comment-242939</link>
		<dc:creator>K.W. Leslie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 May 2008 19:26:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/missional-street-cred-the-conversation-continues#comment-242939</guid>
		<description>Those are awesome points.

This all goes back to the fact that pastors and evangelists are seeking a worldly model of success rather than a Kingdom model: They&#039;re looking at numbers, size, and influence. They&#039;re not looking at Jesus.

If they asked Him what He wanted in their ministry, they&#039;d be a success in His eyes, but they don&#039;t want that—they want numbers, size, and influence. Supposedly once you have that, you can further the Kingdom, even though Jesus told us to seek the KIngdom &lt;i&gt;first&lt;/i&gt;, and &lt;i&gt;then&lt;/i&gt; you get the other things.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Those are awesome points.</p>
<p>This all goes back to the fact that pastors and evangelists are seeking a worldly model of success rather than a Kingdom model: They&#8217;re looking at numbers, size, and influence. They&#8217;re not looking at Jesus.</p>
<p>If they asked Him what He wanted in their ministry, they&#8217;d be a success in His eyes, but they don&#8217;t want that—they want numbers, size, and influence. Supposedly once you have that, you can further the Kingdom, even though Jesus told us to seek the KIngdom <i>first</i>, and <i>then</i> you get the other things.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/missional-street-cred-the-conversation-continues/comment-page-1#comment-242928</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 May 2008 18:20:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/missional-street-cred-the-conversation-continues#comment-242928</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Great&lt;/i&gt; post, Michael.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Great</i> post, Michael.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
