Comments on: Misplaced, Taken For Granted and Ignored: My Strange Experiences With An Absent Gospel (Part 1) http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/misplaced-taken-for-granted-and-ignored-my-strange-experiences-with-an-absent-gospel-part-1 ...dispatches from the post-evangelical wilderness Sun, 12 Feb 2012 14:43:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: James Stillwell http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/misplaced-taken-for-granted-and-ignored-my-strange-experiences-with-an-absent-gospel-part-1/comment-page-1#comment-520335 James Stillwell Mon, 30 Nov 2009 01:23:08 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=5081#comment-520335 I agree totally. Where do you go these days to have intelligent conversations about theology? The Internet. It does not seem to be available in the churches. More common is "dumbing down" or even adjusting theology to fit the people. Thank you for your insights that keep my mind awake and alive. Blessings, bro! I agree totally. Where do you go these days to have intelligent conversations about theology? The Internet. It does not seem to be available in the churches. More common is “dumbing down” or even adjusting theology to fit the people. Thank you for your insights that keep my mind awake and alive. Blessings, bro!

]]> By: Jerre http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/misplaced-taken-for-granted-and-ignored-my-strange-experiences-with-an-absent-gospel-part-1/comment-page-1#comment-519671 Jerre Sat, 21 Nov 2009 22:34:03 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=5081#comment-519671 I love this story. May I use it? I love this story. May I use it?

]]> By: Jerre http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/misplaced-taken-for-granted-and-ignored-my-strange-experiences-with-an-absent-gospel-part-1/comment-page-1#comment-519670 Jerre Sat, 21 Nov 2009 22:22:13 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=5081#comment-519670 "The problem is that the conservative Christian political outlook, whatever its merits or dismerits, are not related to the church’s gospel mission. The conservative Christian political agenda is not based not on a reckless, self-denying, redemptive love for all our fellow-citizens. It’s based on fear about the fact that evangelicalism has lost political clout and that the Christianity’s status as “unofficial official” religion has slipped." Danielle, I would simply ask you how you know this and pray for your cynical attitudes toward those conservative Christians that are truly concerned about their gospel mission and are truly not concerned about political power. The rest of your comments are certainly points that, in my opinion, are well taken and should be considered by those trying to accomplish a return to past values in this country. “The problem is that the conservative Christian political outlook, whatever its merits or dismerits, are not related to the church’s gospel mission. The conservative Christian political agenda is not based not on a reckless, self-denying, redemptive love for all our fellow-citizens. It’s based on fear about the fact that evangelicalism has lost political clout and that the Christianity’s status as “unofficial official” religion has slipped.”

Danielle, I would simply ask you how you know this and pray for your cynical attitudes toward those conservative Christians that are truly concerned about their gospel mission and are truly not concerned about political power. The rest of your comments are certainly points that, in my opinion, are well taken and should be considered by those trying to accomplish a return to past values in this country.

]]> By: Jerre http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/misplaced-taken-for-granted-and-ignored-my-strange-experiences-with-an-absent-gospel-part-1/comment-page-1#comment-519668 Jerre Sat, 21 Nov 2009 21:44:57 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=5081#comment-519668 Jonathan, I suppose we just will disagree on this. I am not and have never proposed that we "lord over others" and did not say so. In fact, in replying to various people I have gone to great lengths to express that it is not my desire to force any Christian will on anyone. I simply want to change the laws and norms to ALLOW the expression of Christianity as we have always done in this country, not to FORCE such expressions. The suffering of the early Christians did not reveal to the Roman masses what the rebellion against God leads to but rather what the rebellion against Roman law leads to. The Roman masses could have cared less about God and I fear that we are rapidly promoting such an attitude in America by the timidity of Christians in speaking out for the Lord, even in the secular realm. Jonathan, I suppose we just will disagree on this. I am not and have never proposed that we “lord over others” and did not say so. In fact, in replying to various people I have gone to great lengths to express that it is not my desire to force any Christian will on anyone. I simply want to change the laws and norms to ALLOW the expression of Christianity as we have always done in this country, not to FORCE such expressions. The suffering of the early Christians did not reveal to the Roman masses what the rebellion against God leads to but rather what the rebellion against Roman law leads to. The Roman masses could have cared less about God and I fear that we are rapidly promoting such an attitude in America by the timidity of Christians in speaking out for the Lord, even in the secular realm.

]]> By: Jonathan Hunnicutt http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/misplaced-taken-for-granted-and-ignored-my-strange-experiences-with-an-absent-gospel-part-1/comment-page-1#comment-519662 Jonathan Hunnicutt Sat, 21 Nov 2009 19:14:02 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=5081#comment-519662 What if the cross means more than just that Jesus died individually for all the sins of humankind? Pharaoh becomes king by enslaving others to his will. God becomes King by setting the slaves free. Caesar rules by putting others on crosses, God rules by letting his son be put on a cross. So do culture war politics try to change the laws and norms, to enforce the will of Christianity on others through the way of Pharaoh and Caesar? Do we try to "lord over others?" Or do we try to reveal through suffering, through bearing our crosses, what the rebellion against God leads to? What if the cross means more than just that Jesus died individually for all the sins of humankind?

Pharaoh becomes king by enslaving others to his will. God becomes King by setting the slaves free. Caesar rules by putting others on crosses, God rules by letting his son be put on a cross.

So do culture war politics try to change the laws and norms, to enforce the will of Christianity on others through the way of Pharaoh and Caesar? Do we try to “lord over others?” Or do we try to reveal through suffering, through bearing our crosses, what the rebellion against God leads to?

]]> By: JoanieD http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/misplaced-taken-for-granted-and-ignored-my-strange-experiences-with-an-absent-gospel-part-1/comment-page-1#comment-519648 JoanieD Sat, 21 Nov 2009 12:11:07 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=5081#comment-519648 I don't understand your question, Patrick. What is wrong with what? Thanks. I don’t understand your question, Patrick. What is wrong with what? Thanks.

]]> By: Noah Burton http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/misplaced-taken-for-granted-and-ignored-my-strange-experiences-with-an-absent-gospel-part-1/comment-page-1#comment-519641 Noah Burton Sat, 21 Nov 2009 06:31:13 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=5081#comment-519641 I think you're actually touching the thing that CAUSES what IMonk is frustrated with. Its the arch-enemy of all who think they have something to say (i.e. Christians, especially preachers)...that is a flat punch line. AKA a joke thats not funny OR a MESSAGE THAT PEOPLE DON'T THINK IS GOOD. Its a bit of a paradox. Is what makes something good the fact that people benefit from it? No, but I think that is a necessary fruit of something that is good. Its all about insecurity. In our effort to show people its good, we lose patience in the very thing we are proclaiming. Without a doubt the toughest part of the Gospel is that Jesus saves US. It's also the part that only trust can allow us to "get". We are preaching something that HAS US not always the other way around. It ain't simple to talk about what you're in the midst of. So while I hear what you're saying about "stick with the simple Gospel." I will also say: Even just saying the gospel doesn't get us off the hook. Because "just saying it" would bear fruit. If there is no fruit... receive it AGAIN. Receive it FIRST, AGAIN yourself. Alexander, I think your heart is in the right spot when you are still "questioning" if there is more to hear about this gospel for you yourself. Katie, I think you're right about it won't be new. Just a new encounter with a Tireless Savior. I'm not saying anything profound or new. I'm just trying to highlight what I believe is the context of IMonk's discussion here. I think you’re actually touching the thing that CAUSES what IMonk is frustrated with. Its the arch-enemy of all who think they have something to say (i.e. Christians, especially preachers)…that is a flat punch line. AKA a joke thats not funny OR a MESSAGE THAT PEOPLE DON’T THINK IS GOOD.

Its a bit of a paradox. Is what makes something good the fact that people benefit from it? No, but I think that is a necessary fruit of something that is good.

Its all about insecurity. In our effort to show people its good, we lose patience in the very thing we are proclaiming.

Without a doubt the toughest part of the Gospel is that Jesus saves US. It’s also the part that only trust can allow us to “get”. We are preaching something that HAS US not always the other way around. It ain’t simple to talk about what you’re in the midst of.

So while I hear what you’re saying about “stick with the simple Gospel.” I will also say: Even just saying the gospel doesn’t get us off the hook. Because “just saying it” would bear fruit. If there is no fruit… receive it AGAIN. Receive it FIRST, AGAIN yourself.

Alexander, I think your heart is in the right spot when you are still “questioning” if there is more to hear about this gospel for you yourself.

Katie, I think you’re right about it won’t be new. Just a new encounter with a Tireless Savior.

I’m not saying anything profound or new. I’m just trying to highlight what I believe is the context of IMonk’s discussion here.

]]> By: Patrick Lynch http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/misplaced-taken-for-granted-and-ignored-my-strange-experiences-with-an-absent-gospel-part-1/comment-page-1#comment-519633 Patrick Lynch Sat, 21 Nov 2009 03:26:51 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=5081#comment-519633 What's wrong with this? What’s wrong with this?

]]> By: David L. Henderson MD http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/misplaced-taken-for-granted-and-ignored-my-strange-experiences-with-an-absent-gospel-part-1/comment-page-1#comment-519618 David L. Henderson MD Fri, 20 Nov 2009 21:43:51 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=5081#comment-519618 You would be correct in your assumption if it were not for the resurrection! As Paul said, if Christ was not raised from the dead, then we are of all men most miserable. The resurrection allows us to find joy in the midst of our pain and, dare I say it, at times even because of our pain. (That I may know Him and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His suffering...) You would be correct in your assumption if it were not for the resurrection! As Paul said, if Christ was not raised from the dead, then we are of all men most miserable. The resurrection allows us to find joy in the midst of our pain and, dare I say it, at times even because of our pain. (That I may know Him and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His suffering…)

]]> By: Jerre http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/misplaced-taken-for-granted-and-ignored-my-strange-experiences-with-an-absent-gospel-part-1/comment-page-1#comment-519611 Jerre Fri, 20 Nov 2009 20:32:11 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=5081#comment-519611 Tim, I was very moved by your words and feel that you came to this site for a reason. The highest example of God's love for you is that He died on the cross for you, but that isn't the only example. Go to any church in any community and you will find a group of people there (the true Christians) who will love you like a brother. Do they do that because people are just naturally loving and accepting? Give me a break! They do it because God first loved them and His love flows through them to you. 2,000 years is nothing to God (A day is like a thousand years and a thousand years like a day). To Him, Jesus just died for you. Paul spoke constantly of Jesus' love for him and guess what? Paul wasn't there, either! God knows every sparrow that falls and He knows Tim! It is hard for us with our limited mind power to understand the mind of God, but He is not limited by time or numbers and is capable of loving each individual like we can't. I love you, Tim, not because I know you, but because Christ first loved me and died for my personal sins just like He died for your personal sins. For me, the best way to feel close to God is to pray. Prayer helps me feel like God is present in my life and close to me. Do not give up on God - the love of God and His Christ surrounds you, both directly and through His people. Peace be with you. Tim, I was very moved by your words and feel that you came to this site for a reason. The highest example of God’s love for you is that He died on the cross for you, but that isn’t the only example. Go to any church in any community and you will find a group of people there (the true Christians) who will love you like a brother. Do they do that because people are just naturally loving and accepting? Give me a break! They do it because God first loved them and His love flows through them to you. 2,000 years is nothing to God (A day is like a thousand years and a thousand years like a day). To Him, Jesus just died for you. Paul spoke constantly of Jesus’ love for him and guess what? Paul wasn’t there, either! God knows every sparrow that falls and He knows Tim!

It is hard for us with our limited mind power to understand the mind of God, but He is not limited by time or numbers and is capable of loving each individual like we can’t. I love you, Tim, not because I know you, but because Christ first loved me and died for my personal sins just like He died for your personal sins. For me, the best way to feel close to God is to pray. Prayer helps me feel like God is present in my life and close to me. Do not give up on God – the love of God and His Christ surrounds you, both directly and through His people. Peace be with you.

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