Comments on: Michael Bell: Looking at the Pew Forum’s “Changes in Religious Affiliation” Data http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/michael-bell-looking-at-the-pew-forums-changes-in-religious-affliliation-data ...dispatches from the post-evangelical wilderness Sat, 21 Nov 2009 20:48:13 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: Christianity and Evolution Make Strange Bedfellows « Landan’s Corner http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/michael-bell-looking-at-the-pew-forums-changes-in-religious-affliliation-data/comment-page-1#comment-501251 Christianity and Evolution Make Strange Bedfellows « Landan’s Corner Fri, 17 Jul 2009 00:36:47 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=3157#comment-501251 [...] to the growing minority of the non-religious and an increased social acceptance of atheism (source 1, 2 ). Still, the majority of children who grow up in evangelical households will maintain their [...] [...] to the growing minority of the non-religious and an increased social acceptance of atheism (source 1, 2 ). Still, the majority of children who grow up in evangelical households will maintain their [...]

]]> By: Is the Emergent Movement Only Temporary? « a hundred visions and revisions http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/michael-bell-looking-at-the-pew-forums-changes-in-religious-affliliation-data/comment-page-1#comment-465750 Is the Emergent Movement Only Temporary? « a hundred visions and revisions Wed, 27 May 2009 14:52:54 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=3157#comment-465750 [...] so to speak. The observation is essentially that the emergent movement is most attractive to the currently high volume of people leaving the church, rather than the growing population of unchurched folks, with its message, [...] [...] so to speak. The observation is essentially that the emergent movement is most attractive to the currently high volume of people leaving the church, rather than the growing population of unchurched folks, with its message, [...]

]]> By: re: BHT http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/michael-bell-looking-at-the-pew-forums-changes-in-religious-affliliation-data/comment-page-1#comment-454700 re: BHT Thu, 14 May 2009 01:26:56 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=3157#comment-454700 Why is the third-largest category still called "mainline"? [this is not actually re:BHT] Why is the third-largest category still called “mainline”?

[this is not actually re:BHT]

]]> By: Laura http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/michael-bell-looking-at-the-pew-forums-changes-in-religious-affliliation-data/comment-page-1#comment-453789 Laura Tue, 12 May 2009 17:15:08 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=3157#comment-453789 Dear Michael, Thank you so much for this thoughtful first take on the Pew Forum data. I am really looking forward to your further analysis. That graph is spectacular. Laura Dear Michael,

Thank you so much for this thoughtful first take on the Pew Forum data. I am really looking forward to your further analysis. That graph is spectacular.

Laura

]]> By: Eclectic Christian - Michael Bell http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/michael-bell-looking-at-the-pew-forums-changes-in-religious-affliliation-data/comment-page-1#comment-452231 Eclectic Christian - Michael Bell Mon, 11 May 2009 04:17:21 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=3157#comment-452231 Excellent point Fearsome Comrade. I do feel that what you have presented here is a best case scenario, whereas my friend is hoping for a worst case scenario. My fear is that as more people become non-religious it becomes more of an attractive option. Time will tell. Excellent point Fearsome Comrade.

I do feel that what you have presented here is a best case scenario, whereas my friend is hoping for a worst case scenario. My fear is that as more people become non-religious it becomes more of an attractive option.

Time will tell.

]]> By: Fearsome Comrade http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/michael-bell-looking-at-the-pew-forums-changes-in-religious-affliliation-data/comment-page-1#comment-452163 Fearsome Comrade Mon, 11 May 2009 02:29:29 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=3157#comment-452163 The question your atheist friend poses is sort of absurd. 8.7% of Americans aren't going to leave religion every generation, especially when religion drops to below 8.7% of the population. At current rates, 50% of non-religious people become religious every generation, and 9.4% of religious people quit every generation. Equilibrium is reached when the 9.4% who quits religion is equal to the 50% who become religious. At current rates, the next generation would actually be ever so slightly more religious: 50% of 16.1% is 8.05% of Americans. 9.4% of 83.9% is 7.89% of Americans. So both groups would be treading water. The rate of defection from religion would need to accelerate again next generation for non-religiosity to make a gain. The question your atheist friend poses is sort of absurd. 8.7% of Americans aren’t going to leave religion every generation, especially when religion drops to below 8.7% of the population.

At current rates, 50% of non-religious people become religious every generation, and 9.4% of religious people quit every generation. Equilibrium is reached when the 9.4% who quits religion is equal to the 50% who become religious.

At current rates, the next generation would actually be ever so slightly more religious:

50% of 16.1% is 8.05% of Americans.
9.4% of 83.9% is 7.89% of Americans.

So both groups would be treading water. The rate of defection from religion would need to accelerate again next generation for non-religiosity to make a gain.

]]> By: Eclectic Christian - Michael Bell http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/michael-bell-looking-at-the-pew-forums-changes-in-religious-affliliation-data/comment-page-1#comment-449867 Eclectic Christian - Michael Bell Fri, 08 May 2009 13:47:58 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=3157#comment-449867 Ron, As this was a self-identification survey it would depend on how the person responded. I know that I was a member of a house church for many years, but the house church was associated with 1. Evangelicals and 2. Plymouth/Christian/Open Brethren, so I would have been slotted in the Evangelical side of things. There was a significant number of people in the survey who identified themselves as Evangelical non-denominational or non-specific. People in a house church that is not affiliated with any denomination and one that is evangelical would probably identify itself with one of those two categories. Mainline and Historical Black groups also had those two categories. As as side note I should mention that for years the two denominations with which I have spent the most time, the Brethren and Christian and Missionary Alliance, insisted that they were not denominations, but just groups of like minded Christians meeting together. Whether the home church movement goes this way remains to be seen. Already we see examples of house church ABC being a member of the XYZ house church network. Ron,

As this was a self-identification survey it would depend on how the person responded. I know that I was a member of a house church for many years, but the house church was associated with 1. Evangelicals and 2. Plymouth/Christian/Open Brethren, so I would have been slotted in the Evangelical side of things.

There was a significant number of people in the survey who identified themselves as Evangelical non-denominational or non-specific. People in a house church that is not affiliated with any denomination and one that is evangelical would probably identify itself with one of those two categories. Mainline and Historical Black groups also had those two categories.

As as side note I should mention that for years the two denominations with which I have spent the most time, the Brethren and Christian and Missionary Alliance, insisted that they were not denominations, but just groups of like minded Christians meeting together. Whether the home church movement goes this way remains to be seen. Already we see examples of house church ABC being a member of the XYZ house church network.

]]> By: Ron http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/michael-bell-looking-at-the-pew-forums-changes-in-religious-affliliation-data/comment-page-1#comment-449710 Ron Fri, 08 May 2009 04:55:21 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=3157#comment-449710 Hey Michael, I don't know if you're answering direct questions, but I'm curious about something. I didn't see anything in your data about noninstitution simple and home church types. Were we included in the "other" category? I know we're probably hard to chart since we tend to fly under the radar, but I know in my own community we've gone from nonexistent (absolute zero, as far as I know) to several dozen in about five years. Are we an unusual case or is this kind of growth happening all over. I know George Barna gave some stats about organic, simple, home, and other emerging noninstitutional forms of church, but his numbers seemed a little high to me. Just curious. Hey Michael, I don’t know if you’re answering direct questions, but I’m curious about something. I didn’t see anything in your data about noninstitution simple and home church types. Were we included in the “other” category? I know we’re probably hard to chart since we tend to fly under the radar, but I know in my own community we’ve gone from nonexistent (absolute zero, as far as I know) to several dozen in about five years. Are we an unusual case or is this kind of growth happening all over. I know George Barna gave some stats about organic, simple, home, and other emerging noninstitutional forms of church, but his numbers seemed a little high to me.
Just curious.

]]> By: Dave N. http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/michael-bell-looking-at-the-pew-forums-changes-in-religious-affliliation-data/comment-page-1#comment-449616 Dave N. Fri, 08 May 2009 02:03:21 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=3157#comment-449616 My first thought when looking at the chart was "is this some kind of a joke?" My second on looking at it more closely was "thanks!" My first thought when looking at the chart was “is this some kind of a joke?”

My second on looking at it more closely was “thanks!”

]]> By: Eclectic Christian - Michael Bell http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/michael-bell-looking-at-the-pew-forums-changes-in-religious-affliliation-data/comment-page-1#comment-449600 Eclectic Christian - Michael Bell Fri, 08 May 2009 01:28:26 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=3157#comment-449600 sue kephart, Self identity is always much higher than actual attendance. This is true for Evangelical, Mainline, and RC churches. Southern Baptist attendance in the U.S. is roughly 30% of its membership. In Canada where I live, I know of a number of people who would identify as Anglican, or United Church of Canada, or Presbyterian, who don't attend and probably haven't even made it on to the membership rolls. The younger generation with the same lack of attendance patterns is much more likely to claim no affiliation. sue kephart,

Self identity is always much higher than actual attendance. This is true for Evangelical, Mainline, and RC churches. Southern Baptist attendance in the U.S. is roughly 30% of its membership. In Canada where I live, I know of a number of people who would identify as Anglican, or United Church of Canada, or Presbyterian, who don’t attend and probably haven’t even made it on to the membership rolls. The younger generation with the same lack of attendance patterns is much more likely to claim no affiliation.

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