Comments on: Message to Tom Ascol: Write the Book http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/message-to-tom-ascol-write-the-book ...dispatches from the post-evangelical wilderness Sat, 21 Nov 2009 11:36:22 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: Heather http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/message-to-tom-ascol-write-the-book/comment-page-1#comment-115110 Heather Sat, 14 Jul 2007 16:28:13 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/message-to-tom-ascol-write-the-book#comment-115110 Amen Brother! I was talking with a family member the other day about church, and their concern was about being entertained. When did we start thinking church was about "us"? The whole purpose of coming together in the body is for Him and Him alone. The Gospel is about faith in Jesus and the living Christ being lived out of us. It's not about experiencing a great sermon; it's about experiencing Christ and being obedient no matter the conditions. Amen Brother! I was talking with a family member the other day about church, and their concern was about being entertained. When did we start thinking church was about “us”? The whole purpose of coming together in the body is for Him and Him alone. The Gospel is about faith in Jesus and the living Christ being lived out of us. It’s not about experiencing a great sermon; it’s about experiencing Christ and being obedient no matter the conditions.

]]> By: Gary Davis http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/message-to-tom-ascol-write-the-book/comment-page-1#comment-114903 Gary Davis Fri, 13 Jul 2007 21:22:00 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/message-to-tom-ascol-write-the-book#comment-114903 True, and fairly, you did not say that Warren doesn't preach the Gospel. But the implication is there that Ascol does, while others like Warren do not because they are focused on methods, marketing, and the like. And to be fair, they are largely focused on things like that. But I am not so sure that what guys like Warren preach is not Gospel centered, and I am not so sure that what they are doing "is built around allowing the culture to determine significant aspects of what a church says and does. His use of pragmatism is built on the assumption that scripture provides a message but not a blueprint for how to do church. PD churches generally are significantly different than churches that believe the bible contains uncompromisable directions for mission, worship, etc." I just don't see that. I don't see him deviating from the umcompromising directions, I just seem him contextualizing. True, and fairly, you did not say that Warren doesn’t preach the Gospel. But the implication is there that Ascol does, while others like Warren do not because they are focused on methods, marketing, and the like. And to be fair, they are largely focused on things like that. But I am not so sure that what guys like Warren preach is not Gospel centered, and I am not so sure that what they are doing “is built around allowing the culture to determine significant aspects of what a church says and does. His use of pragmatism is built on the assumption that scripture provides a message but not a blueprint for how to do church. PD churches generally are significantly different than churches that believe the bible contains uncompromisable directions for mission, worship, etc.” I just don’t see that. I don’t see him deviating from the umcompromising directions, I just seem him contextualizing.

]]> By: Michael Spencer http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/message-to-tom-ascol-write-the-book/comment-page-1#comment-113993 Michael Spencer Tue, 10 Jul 2007 21:56:45 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/message-to-tom-ascol-write-the-book#comment-113993 I can't speak for the comment thread, but the original post never said Warren doesn't preach the Gospel. I can’t speak for the comment thread, but the original post never said Warren doesn’t preach the Gospel.

]]> By: Gary Davis http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/message-to-tom-ascol-write-the-book/comment-page-1#comment-113981 Gary Davis Tue, 10 Jul 2007 21:05:20 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/message-to-tom-ascol-write-the-book#comment-113981 I would still like to know in what ways that some people feel Rick Warren is not preaching the "Gospel"? Much of my original assertion in my first post on this topic seems to have been unanswered. I would still like to know in what ways that some people feel Rick Warren is not preaching the “Gospel”?

Much of my original assertion in my first post on this topic seems to have been unanswered.

]]> By: James http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/message-to-tom-ascol-write-the-book/comment-page-1#comment-113653 James Mon, 09 Jul 2007 16:33:18 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/message-to-tom-ascol-write-the-book#comment-113653 Amen. "Christ and Him crucified." Amen. “Christ and Him crucified.”

]]> By: Linda McCullough Moore http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/message-to-tom-ascol-write-the-book/comment-page-1#comment-113399 Linda McCullough Moore Sun, 08 Jul 2007 18:45:54 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/message-to-tom-ascol-write-the-book#comment-113399 Re: the Gospel. At the Haystack Bicentennial at Williams College last fall, repeated reports were made of the spectacular growth of the immigrant churches in the US. An Episcopal priest sitting beside me at the Q and A, raised her hand and asked what accounted for this growth, as contrast with the ever-dwindling attendance at her church. The speaker thought for a minute, and then said, "The immigrant churches preach the Gospel." Those of us sitting nearby heard the priest's muttered surprise,"Well that never would have occurred to me." Re: the Gospel. At the Haystack Bicentennial at Williams College last fall, repeated reports were made of the spectacular growth of the immigrant churches in the US. An Episcopal priest sitting beside me at the Q and A, raised her hand and asked what accounted for this growth, as contrast with the ever-dwindling attendance at her church.
The speaker thought for a minute, and then said, “The immigrant churches preach the Gospel.”
Those of us sitting nearby heard the priest’s muttered surprise,”Well that never would have occurred to me.”

]]> By: David Richardson http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/message-to-tom-ascol-write-the-book/comment-page-1#comment-113390 David Richardson Sun, 08 Jul 2007 17:49:15 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/message-to-tom-ascol-write-the-book#comment-113390 Thanks, Michael, for the post. A good reminder for us all. Our church (First Baptist Church of Williston, South Carolina) has a "contemporary worship service" at 8:30 in the church gym on Sunday mornings. I preach the same sermon at the 8:30 service that I do at the 11:00 service in the sanctuary...and yes, I am one of those guys who does preach the gospel. With the exception of a few "growing pains" that accompany the influx of new people, it has been a good experience for us. The point is, I think there is a place for "contemporary worship" in the church if it is done in the right way, with the right motives. Again, thanks for your article. It really made me think!! David Richardson Thanks, Michael, for the post. A good reminder for us all. Our church (First Baptist Church of Williston, South Carolina) has a “contemporary worship service” at 8:30 in the church gym on Sunday mornings. I preach the same sermon at the 8:30 service that I do at the 11:00 service in the sanctuary…and yes, I am one of those guys who does preach the gospel. With the exception of a few “growing pains” that accompany the influx of new people, it has been a good experience for us. The point is, I think there is a place for “contemporary worship” in the church if it is done in the right way, with the right motives. Again, thanks for your article. It really made me think!! David Richardson

]]> By: Fr. Mike Creson http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/message-to-tom-ascol-write-the-book/comment-page-1#comment-113349 Fr. Mike Creson Sun, 08 Jul 2007 13:50:06 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/message-to-tom-ascol-write-the-book#comment-113349 Willow Creek has attracted many people from the RC Church as well as others. They are doing something right to bring people in. Are they bringing back those disenchanted with their church? They seem to offer something for everyone. I'm curious what others have found at Willow Creek. Willow Creek has attracted many people from the RC Church as well as others. They are doing something right to bring people in. Are they bringing back those disenchanted with their church? They seem to offer something for everyone. I’m curious what others have found at Willow Creek.

]]> By: Wyman Richardson http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/message-to-tom-ascol-write-the-book/comment-page-1#comment-113202 Wyman Richardson Sat, 07 Jul 2007 22:29:48 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/message-to-tom-ascol-write-the-book#comment-113202 Michael, This post has really hit me. I think you're right on and I'm reminded again of why I like your writing so much. Press on brother. Wyman Michael,

This post has really hit me. I think you’re right on and I’m reminded again of why I like your writing so much. Press on brother.

Wyman

]]> By: Earl http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/message-to-tom-ascol-write-the-book/comment-page-1#comment-113173 Earl Sat, 07 Jul 2007 19:20:17 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/message-to-tom-ascol-write-the-book#comment-113173 I loved the post....and am largely in agreement, given your definition of the gospel (those who wonder what you mean by the term need to read the earlier comments). This is just to defend Bill Hybels and Willow Creek a bit. As I understand it, the "seeker service" on Sunday morning is NOT the "worship service" for members of his church -- it really is intended mainly to attract the unchurched and get them interested in what's going on at Willow Creek. The core members, and anyone who wants to explore more - besides being hooked up with small groups for study, for service, etc. - are expected to attend the "worship service", which occurs on Wednesday night. This is apparently a significantly different kind of service than Sunday mornings. Furthermore, for members, the service component of membership is both required and monitored -- you donate time to fix cars, help with taxes, prepare and pass out donated clothes and other items, cook for the free meals given out, etc. etc., depending on where your gifts and talents lie. IF this is what's really going on, then what Hybels is doing is a very different thing than what we hear about. I did a bit of research into this when the pastor of a church I was attending came back from a "workshop" at Willow Creek, and we lost our worship service to a seeker service....period. If the information given above is false, or out of date, I'd be glad to hear about it. I loved the post….and am largely in agreement, given your definition of the gospel (those who wonder what you mean by the term need to read the earlier comments).

This is just to defend Bill Hybels and Willow Creek a bit. As I understand it, the “seeker service” on Sunday morning is NOT the “worship service” for members of his church — it really is intended mainly to attract the unchurched and get them interested in what’s going on at Willow Creek. The core members, and anyone who wants to explore more – besides being hooked up with small groups for study, for service, etc. – are expected to attend the “worship service”, which occurs on Wednesday night. This is apparently a significantly different kind of service than Sunday mornings.

Furthermore, for members, the service component of membership is both required and monitored — you donate time to fix cars, help with taxes, prepare and pass out donated clothes and other items, cook for the free meals given out, etc. etc., depending on where your gifts and talents lie.

IF this is what’s really going on, then what Hybels is doing is a very different thing than what we hear about. I did a bit of research into this when the pastor of a church I was attending came back from a “workshop” at Willow Creek, and we lost our worship service to a seeker service….period. If the information given above is false, or out of date, I’d be glad to hear about it.

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