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	<title>Comments on: Marriage Proverbs for Clay and Taylor</title>
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	<description>...dispatches from the post-evangelical wilderness</description>
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		<title>By: Free Family Finance &#187; First Fruits: Marriage Proverbs - An InternetMonk Excerpt</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/marriage-proverbs-for-clay-and-taylor/comment-page-1#comment-471776</link>
		<dc:creator>Free Family Finance &#187; First Fruits: Marriage Proverbs - An InternetMonk Excerpt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Jun 2009 12:11:54 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] internetmonk.com » Blog Archive » Marriage Proverbs for Clay and Taylor.         Tags: first fruits, marriage &amp; money, plan to succeed     &#171; Kids Eat Free: When [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] internetmonk.com » Blog Archive » Marriage Proverbs for Clay and Taylor.         Tags: first fruits, marriage &amp; money, plan to succeed     &laquo; Kids Eat Free: When [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Anna W.</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/marriage-proverbs-for-clay-and-taylor/comment-page-1#comment-461621</link>
		<dc:creator>Anna W.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 May 2009 21:59:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=3178#comment-461621</guid>
		<description>Congratulations and blessings to you both.

DH and I have been together 22 years this past January.  My advice is listen to each other.  Just take time to really hear one another.

Bring up problems to each other first (and NOT to outsiders).  One thing that worked really well for me was to realize that my hubby&#039;s time was valuable.  Just because he was my husband, didn&#039;t mean that he stopped being a person with demands on him and committments to keep and places to go.  So, I have respect for his time--and I&#039;m meaning this in the situation where you have to lay out a major problem or concern.  I simply ask him if this is a good time to really discuss something.

With regard to the credit card issue--it was I that had the inability to manage my finances properly, so I don&#039;t use credit cards.  I use debit cards.  With the help of the long-suffering credit union to which we belong, I got some really good advice on how to manage money.  So, my advice here is to ask for help from professionals when you need it!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Congratulations and blessings to you both.</p>
<p>DH and I have been together 22 years this past January.  My advice is listen to each other.  Just take time to really hear one another.</p>
<p>Bring up problems to each other first (and NOT to outsiders).  One thing that worked really well for me was to realize that my hubby&#8217;s time was valuable.  Just because he was my husband, didn&#8217;t mean that he stopped being a person with demands on him and committments to keep and places to go.  So, I have respect for his time&#8211;and I&#8217;m meaning this in the situation where you have to lay out a major problem or concern.  I simply ask him if this is a good time to really discuss something.</p>
<p>With regard to the credit card issue&#8211;it was I that had the inability to manage my finances properly, so I don&#8217;t use credit cards.  I use debit cards.  With the help of the long-suffering credit union to which we belong, I got some really good advice on how to manage money.  So, my advice here is to ask for help from professionals when you need it!</p>
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		<title>By: Donalbain</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/marriage-proverbs-for-clay-and-taylor/comment-page-1#comment-461127</link>
		<dc:creator>Donalbain</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 May 2009 08:29:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=3178#comment-461127</guid>
		<description>Do NOT avoid credit cards at all costs. Credit cards can be a sensible and a helpful way to purchase items. For one thing, in the UK, you get better customer protection if you purchase with a credit card than if you buy by cash or cash substitute. 
And debt itself is neither a good nor a bad thing, there is good debt and bad debt. Be sensible.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Do NOT avoid credit cards at all costs. Credit cards can be a sensible and a helpful way to purchase items. For one thing, in the UK, you get better customer protection if you purchase with a credit card than if you buy by cash or cash substitute.<br />
And debt itself is neither a good nor a bad thing, there is good debt and bad debt. Be sensible.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Wasson</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/marriage-proverbs-for-clay-and-taylor/comment-page-1#comment-459188</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Wasson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 May 2009 02:00:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=3178#comment-459188</guid>
		<description>Mike,
You gave good conusel to your son and his wife.  Many others also contributed some sound advice for building a God pleasing marriage.
However, there were some who gave advice that is harmful if followed.  It is always safe to follow the Bible teaching about marriage or any other subject.
The Four Temperament Study is a dangerous study.  It is based upon psychological and subjective observations which are based neither on the rigors of scientific investigation nor on the rigor of exegetical Bible study. Much like the test or array of questions that place a child in the learning disability piegon hole. Most anyone answering these questions honestly would be classified with a learning disability. This will follow the child into adulthood.
I really need to shorten this so will give just a couple of examples from the four catagories.  However, understand that this is not a solid listing as the charts change according to the whim of the author.
Sanguine: Self-centered and undependable...Both are sin.
Choleric: Quick to anger and inconsiderate...Both are sin.
Melancholy: Moody and unsociable...Both are sin.
Phlegmatic:  Stubborn and lazy...Both are sin.
Now if someone wants to confront me about a known sin then I can accept that and repent and ask them to forgive me if required and continue in a God pleasing way. But to allow me to continue to be quick to anger without biblical confrontation because one is living in an illusion of being able to perdict my behavior because they are experts about The Four Temperaments and I&#039;m only acting in a way that I have no control over is sin on their part. I continue to be quick to anger because I refuse to repent not because I&#039;m sitting in a piegon hole from which I cannot escape.  As for me and my house we will follow Scriptural teaching.
Finally, contary to what many might say, it is not impossible to have a God pleasing marriage. And may this marriage be just that.
God is able,
Jim Wasson</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike,<br />
You gave good conusel to your son and his wife.  Many others also contributed some sound advice for building a God pleasing marriage.<br />
However, there were some who gave advice that is harmful if followed.  It is always safe to follow the Bible teaching about marriage or any other subject.<br />
The Four Temperament Study is a dangerous study.  It is based upon psychological and subjective observations which are based neither on the rigors of scientific investigation nor on the rigor of exegetical Bible study. Much like the test or array of questions that place a child in the learning disability piegon hole. Most anyone answering these questions honestly would be classified with a learning disability. This will follow the child into adulthood.<br />
I really need to shorten this so will give just a couple of examples from the four catagories.  However, understand that this is not a solid listing as the charts change according to the whim of the author.<br />
Sanguine: Self-centered and undependable&#8230;Both are sin.<br />
Choleric: Quick to anger and inconsiderate&#8230;Both are sin.<br />
Melancholy: Moody and unsociable&#8230;Both are sin.<br />
Phlegmatic:  Stubborn and lazy&#8230;Both are sin.<br />
Now if someone wants to confront me about a known sin then I can accept that and repent and ask them to forgive me if required and continue in a God pleasing way. But to allow me to continue to be quick to anger without biblical confrontation because one is living in an illusion of being able to perdict my behavior because they are experts about The Four Temperaments and I&#8217;m only acting in a way that I have no control over is sin on their part. I continue to be quick to anger because I refuse to repent not because I&#8217;m sitting in a piegon hole from which I cannot escape.  As for me and my house we will follow Scriptural teaching.<br />
Finally, contary to what many might say, it is not impossible to have a God pleasing marriage. And may this marriage be just that.<br />
God is able,<br />
Jim Wasson</p>
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		<title>By: Myron</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/marriage-proverbs-for-clay-and-taylor/comment-page-1#comment-458345</link>
		<dc:creator>Myron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 May 2009 01:02:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=3178#comment-458345</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m engaged and getting married in a little over 2 months...so thanks for the wisdom!

I think it&#039;s interesting that people have such varied reactions to credit cards.  It probably has a lot to do with how you&#039;re raised and the examples you saw of credit card usage.

In my case, I was taught that with two exceptions (a house mortgage and college tuition), all debt is bad and should be avoided at all costs.  My parents never bought anything they couldn&#039;t pay for with cash.  However, they never used it for credit--they only used it for convenience and to accumulate the rewards.  They&#039;ve taken several vacations abroad using the miles accumulated on their card.

I&#039;m sure this just shows how naive I was, but until recently I assumed pretty much everyone used credit cards in the same manner.  The idea that anyone would willingly go into debt, and pay the insanely high interest rates, was mind-boggling for me.  

And unless I&#039;m mistaken, credit cards have better fraud protection then debit cards.  That&#039;s the primary reason I use my CC rather than my DC when shopping online.

Saying &quot;avoid all credit cards at all costs&quot; sounds a bit like the teetotaler&#039;s position: because some people drink too much, we should tell people not to drink at all.

Overall, I agree with your point, though: debt should be avoided at all costs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m engaged and getting married in a little over 2 months&#8230;so thanks for the wisdom!</p>
<p>I think it&#8217;s interesting that people have such varied reactions to credit cards.  It probably has a lot to do with how you&#8217;re raised and the examples you saw of credit card usage.</p>
<p>In my case, I was taught that with two exceptions (a house mortgage and college tuition), all debt is bad and should be avoided at all costs.  My parents never bought anything they couldn&#8217;t pay for with cash.  However, they never used it for credit&#8211;they only used it for convenience and to accumulate the rewards.  They&#8217;ve taken several vacations abroad using the miles accumulated on their card.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m sure this just shows how naive I was, but until recently I assumed pretty much everyone used credit cards in the same manner.  The idea that anyone would willingly go into debt, and pay the insanely high interest rates, was mind-boggling for me.  </p>
<p>And unless I&#8217;m mistaken, credit cards have better fraud protection then debit cards.  That&#8217;s the primary reason I use my CC rather than my DC when shopping online.</p>
<p>Saying &#8220;avoid all credit cards at all costs&#8221; sounds a bit like the teetotaler&#8217;s position: because some people drink too much, we should tell people not to drink at all.</p>
<p>Overall, I agree with your point, though: debt should be avoided at all costs.</p>
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		<title>By: iMonk</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/marriage-proverbs-for-clay-and-taylor/comment-page-1#comment-457537</link>
		<dc:creator>iMonk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 May 2009 21:13:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=3178#comment-457537</guid>
		<description>Curtis:

1) With &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debit_card&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;a debit card, which is a plastic check&lt;/a&gt;.

2) What checking account do you have that allows you to write checks on money you don&#039;t have, and not consider it a crime?

3) They should use a debit card with a reasonable limit.

Credit Cards are completely unnecessary. Paying 20% interest is a sin. Seriously. It&#039;s just wrong. The borrower is slave to the lender.

ms</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Curtis:</p>
<p>1) With <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debit_card" rel="nofollow">a debit card, which is a plastic check</a>.</p>
<p>2) What checking account do you have that allows you to write checks on money you don&#8217;t have, and not consider it a crime?</p>
<p>3) They should use a debit card with a reasonable limit.</p>
<p>Credit Cards are completely unnecessary. Paying 20% interest is a sin. Seriously. It&#8217;s just wrong. The borrower is slave to the lender.</p>
<p>ms</p>
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		<title>By: Curtis</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/marriage-proverbs-for-clay-and-taylor/comment-page-1#comment-456688</link>
		<dc:creator>Curtis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 May 2009 23:00:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=3178#comment-456688</guid>
		<description>While you&#039;re playing Solomon, I have three questions:

1) Without a credit card, how do you pay for things online?

2) Should a couple have a cheque-book or is that also irresponsible since it potentially represents money you do not have?

3) Should a small business use credit cards for non-personal purchases?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While you&#8217;re playing Solomon, I have three questions:</p>
<p>1) Without a credit card, how do you pay for things online?</p>
<p>2) Should a couple have a cheque-book or is that also irresponsible since it potentially represents money you do not have?</p>
<p>3) Should a small business use credit cards for non-personal purchases?</p>
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		<title>By: iMonk</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/marriage-proverbs-for-clay-and-taylor/comment-page-1#comment-456472</link>
		<dc:creator>iMonk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 May 2009 19:25:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=3178#comment-456472</guid>
		<description>Rural American:

In respect for your kind and helpful tone, I&#039;m not going to respond to this post, but I disagree deeply and passionately with almost every word you&#039;ve written.

Do you realize that using a credit card to accumulate &quot;credit ratings&quot; and &quot;bonus dollars&quot; has destroyed millions? 

peace

ms</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rural American:</p>
<p>In respect for your kind and helpful tone, I&#8217;m not going to respond to this post, but I disagree deeply and passionately with almost every word you&#8217;ve written.</p>
<p>Do you realize that using a credit card to accumulate &#8220;credit ratings&#8221; and &#8220;bonus dollars&#8221; has destroyed millions? </p>
<p>peace</p>
<p>ms</p>
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		<title>By: theruralamerican</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/marriage-proverbs-for-clay-and-taylor/comment-page-1#comment-456394</link>
		<dc:creator>theruralamerican</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 May 2009 17:46:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=3178#comment-456394</guid>
		<description>I think the advice to avoid debt (heh...at all costs?) is good advice, but I think the advice in absolute terms to not get a credit card is a bad advice.

If you have the discipline to stick to a budget, then using a credit card to make budget purchases (and pay it off in full each period) can be a very easy way to build good credit, and some cards actually provide rewards that have cash value of some kind (advantage miles, or even &quot;cash back&quot;).  Those programs aren&#039;t going to change anyone&#039;s financial situation significantly, but it&#039;s also not nothing.  

If you don&#039;t have the budget discipline, then get a credit card with a low limit and use it for some dedicated, regular, fixed purchase such as a utility bill or gasoline.  Of course, paying off the debt each month is required, or this is a bad idea.

For example - I will soon be able to take my wife on a vacation abroad because I have thousands upon thousands of advantage miles accumulated through routine purchases of groceries and gasoline and whatnot.  Removing the cost of airfare from the price of a vacation makes it much, much easier to afford (a few hundred $$ is more than enough for a week long vacation in Asia or even Europe if you don&#039;t have to pay for the flight).  There&#039;s certainly value in being able to spend dedicated vacation time with one&#039;s wife.  If vacationing isn&#039;t your thing, but you have children, then there is also a card on the market that will make &quot;cash-back&quot; deposits to a 529 account, and others that will simply cut you a check - not a lot, but it&#039;s free.

I realize, of course, that having a good credit rating enables one to take on more debt, but there are times for most of us when taking on debt is a necessary fact of life (how many people can pay cash for a home or property?), and having a good credit score can drastically reduce the cost of that debt via lower interest rates.  That&#039;s also not to mention that credit rating is used as a proxy for character judgement in other scenarios, such as rental applications, hiring decisions, and other important situations.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the advice to avoid debt (heh&#8230;at all costs?) is good advice, but I think the advice in absolute terms to not get a credit card is a bad advice.</p>
<p>If you have the discipline to stick to a budget, then using a credit card to make budget purchases (and pay it off in full each period) can be a very easy way to build good credit, and some cards actually provide rewards that have cash value of some kind (advantage miles, or even &#8220;cash back&#8221;).  Those programs aren&#8217;t going to change anyone&#8217;s financial situation significantly, but it&#8217;s also not nothing.  </p>
<p>If you don&#8217;t have the budget discipline, then get a credit card with a low limit and use it for some dedicated, regular, fixed purchase such as a utility bill or gasoline.  Of course, paying off the debt each month is required, or this is a bad idea.</p>
<p>For example &#8211; I will soon be able to take my wife on a vacation abroad because I have thousands upon thousands of advantage miles accumulated through routine purchases of groceries and gasoline and whatnot.  Removing the cost of airfare from the price of a vacation makes it much, much easier to afford (a few hundred $$ is more than enough for a week long vacation in Asia or even Europe if you don&#8217;t have to pay for the flight).  There&#8217;s certainly value in being able to spend dedicated vacation time with one&#8217;s wife.  If vacationing isn&#8217;t your thing, but you have children, then there is also a card on the market that will make &#8220;cash-back&#8221; deposits to a 529 account, and others that will simply cut you a check &#8211; not a lot, but it&#8217;s free.</p>
<p>I realize, of course, that having a good credit rating enables one to take on more debt, but there are times for most of us when taking on debt is a necessary fact of life (how many people can pay cash for a home or property?), and having a good credit score can drastically reduce the cost of that debt via lower interest rates.  That&#8217;s also not to mention that credit rating is used as a proxy for character judgement in other scenarios, such as rental applications, hiring decisions, and other important situations.</p>
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		<title>By: cey</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/marriage-proverbs-for-clay-and-taylor/comment-page-1#comment-455898</link>
		<dc:creator>cey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 May 2009 05:31:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=3178#comment-455898</guid>
		<description>Read &quot;A Severe Mercy&quot; by Sheldon Van Auken. He includes letters from his friend C.S. Lewis. Powerful, well-written book about marriage and sacrifice. 

Rarely have I cried as hard as I did while reading that book. 

To him: realize and understand that she probably processes things by talking through them, and that she is not making a final decision just because she said she wanted to do a certain thing. 

To her: realize that just because he is not saying anything at the time does not mean that he is not thinking about the issue at hand. He is merely processing mentally and then will speak his final decision. Don&#039;t be offended because he doesn&#039;t talk as much as you, or may not be as articulate as you are. 

This advice is general and can be switched according to the personality of each partner. But in my family the men tend to be intelligent, but quieter, and the women tend to be intelligent and rather verbose. Misunderstandings can occur in such incidents.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Read &#8220;A Severe Mercy&#8221; by Sheldon Van Auken. He includes letters from his friend C.S. Lewis. Powerful, well-written book about marriage and sacrifice. </p>
<p>Rarely have I cried as hard as I did while reading that book. </p>
<p>To him: realize and understand that she probably processes things by talking through them, and that she is not making a final decision just because she said she wanted to do a certain thing. </p>
<p>To her: realize that just because he is not saying anything at the time does not mean that he is not thinking about the issue at hand. He is merely processing mentally and then will speak his final decision. Don&#8217;t be offended because he doesn&#8217;t talk as much as you, or may not be as articulate as you are. </p>
<p>This advice is general and can be switched according to the personality of each partner. But in my family the men tend to be intelligent, but quieter, and the women tend to be intelligent and rather verbose. Misunderstandings can occur in such incidents.</p>
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