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	<title>Comments on: Mark Driscoll, Michael Horton Analyze Osteen&#8217;s Prosperity Gospel</title>
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	<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/mark-driscoll-analyzes-osteens-prosperity-gospel</link>
	<description>...dispatches from the post-evangelical wilderness</description>
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		<title>By: Ben</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/mark-driscoll-analyzes-osteens-prosperity-gospel/comment-page-1#comment-393362</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Mar 2009 00:19:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/mark-driscoll-analyzes-osteens-prosperity-gospel#comment-393362</guid>
		<description>I know this is an old story and it&#039;s likely no-one will read my comment, but honestly, how stupid can you get? Osteen&#039;s challenge was simply to not become satisfied with any area of your life that could stand to be improved through the power of God. He never said that if you are a mature christian that you will never suffer pain, or experience anything negative. He simply said not to settle for anything less than God&#039;s best. If you get sick - put faith in God&#039;s Word and reach for health, if you have bad relationships - seek restoration, if you have depression - focus on Christ and cast your cares on Him... To not do what Osteen is suggesting is just completely lazy. Once again, NEVER said that the goal of being a Christian is to never experience pain. He just said not to let it run you over when it comes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know this is an old story and it&#8217;s likely no-one will read my comment, but honestly, how stupid can you get? Osteen&#8217;s challenge was simply to not become satisfied with any area of your life that could stand to be improved through the power of God. He never said that if you are a mature christian that you will never suffer pain, or experience anything negative. He simply said not to settle for anything less than God&#8217;s best. If you get sick &#8211; put faith in God&#8217;s Word and reach for health, if you have bad relationships &#8211; seek restoration, if you have depression &#8211; focus on Christ and cast your cares on Him&#8230; To not do what Osteen is suggesting is just completely lazy. Once again, NEVER said that the goal of being a Christian is to never experience pain. He just said not to let it run you over when it comes.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris E</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/mark-driscoll-analyzes-osteens-prosperity-gospel/comment-page-1#comment-311468</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris E</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Oct 2008 15:25:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/mark-driscoll-analyzes-osteens-prosperity-gospel#comment-311468</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;
Now I have not heard Osteen say anything much about the Person or work of Christ.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

There is your answer.

&lt;blockquote&gt;
What I have heard him say is that if you are not a believer in Christ, then you can pray to the Lord, admit that you are a sinner, and ask Him to come into your heart.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Yes, and it&#039;s usually tied to the end of a sermon in a way that makes it into the key to gaining God&#039;s favour into your life. So - we are back to manipulating God in order to get what we really want.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>
Now I have not heard Osteen say anything much about the Person or work of Christ.
</p></blockquote>
<p>There is your answer.</p>
<blockquote><p>
What I have heard him say is that if you are not a believer in Christ, then you can pray to the Lord, admit that you are a sinner, and ask Him to come into your heart.
</p></blockquote>
<p>Yes, and it&#8217;s usually tied to the end of a sermon in a way that makes it into the key to gaining God&#8217;s favour into your life. So &#8211; we are back to manipulating God in order to get what we really want.</p>
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		<title>By: treebeard</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/mark-driscoll-analyzes-osteens-prosperity-gospel/comment-page-1#comment-311227</link>
		<dc:creator>treebeard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Oct 2008 22:33:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/mark-driscoll-analyzes-osteens-prosperity-gospel#comment-311227</guid>
		<description>If I could make another point, here is what Trailblazer said about Halloween:
&quot;I have a big problem with churches who offer ‘alternative’ Halloween parties. Calling it a ‘Harvest Party’ while kids wear costumes, get candy and in general celebrate a pagan holiday.&quot;

I used to believe that. I rejected Halloween, and Christmas for the same reason. Pagan holidays. I also had a big problem with birthdays, because the only examples in the Bible were negative (i.e. Herod&#039;s beheading John the Baptist). 

So let&#039;s condemn Osteen. And then let&#039;s condemn Halloween. And then let&#039;s condemn all those backslidden Christians who celebrate Halloween, and all those who celebrate alternatives to Halloween. And all those who allow their kids to get something from the Tooth Fairy. And all those who read the Chronicles of Narnia or Harry Potter. And all those Christian women who actually celebrate Mother&#039;s Day. Let&#039;s stifle Christian freedom every way we can, in the name of purity and the ole time religion. Why, the Christian church will just grow and grow, as we express the virtues of Christ and the fruit of the Spirit!

It&#039;s no wonder people flock to Osteen. It really doesn&#039;t surprise me at all. At least he isn&#039;t listing every holiday they can no longer enjoy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If I could make another point, here is what Trailblazer said about Halloween:<br />
&#8220;I have a big problem with churches who offer ‘alternative’ Halloween parties. Calling it a ‘Harvest Party’ while kids wear costumes, get candy and in general celebrate a pagan holiday.&#8221;</p>
<p>I used to believe that. I rejected Halloween, and Christmas for the same reason. Pagan holidays. I also had a big problem with birthdays, because the only examples in the Bible were negative (i.e. Herod&#8217;s beheading John the Baptist). </p>
<p>So let&#8217;s condemn Osteen. And then let&#8217;s condemn Halloween. And then let&#8217;s condemn all those backslidden Christians who celebrate Halloween, and all those who celebrate alternatives to Halloween. And all those who allow their kids to get something from the Tooth Fairy. And all those who read the Chronicles of Narnia or Harry Potter. And all those Christian women who actually celebrate Mother&#8217;s Day. Let&#8217;s stifle Christian freedom every way we can, in the name of purity and the ole time religion. Why, the Christian church will just grow and grow, as we express the virtues of Christ and the fruit of the Spirit!</p>
<p>It&#8217;s no wonder people flock to Osteen. It really doesn&#8217;t surprise me at all. At least he isn&#8217;t listing every holiday they can no longer enjoy.</p>
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		<title>By: treebeard</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/mark-driscoll-analyzes-osteens-prosperity-gospel/comment-page-1#comment-311222</link>
		<dc:creator>treebeard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Oct 2008 22:21:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/mark-driscoll-analyzes-osteens-prosperity-gospel#comment-311222</guid>
		<description>Chris E,
First, I am not a supporter of Osteen. I am simply unwilling to blame him for millions of people going to hell, or to regard him as a false teacher. I consider him shallow and superficial, but not false.

As to your question, what differentiates Christianity from any other religion, I would say it is Christ Himself, God manifested in the flesh, the Son of God going through death and resurrection and now reigning in ascension. That is, the truth, versus all human counterfeits.

Now I have not heard Osteen say anything much about the Person or work of Christ. What I have heard him say is that if you are not a believer in Christ, then you can pray to the Lord, admit that you are a sinner, and ask Him to come into your heart (or something similar). To me, that&#039;s not a small thing. Does it make his ministry something that deserves our stamp of approval? Not really. But does that make the accusation &quot;false teacher&quot; a little bit overwrought? In my opinion, yes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris E,<br />
First, I am not a supporter of Osteen. I am simply unwilling to blame him for millions of people going to hell, or to regard him as a false teacher. I consider him shallow and superficial, but not false.</p>
<p>As to your question, what differentiates Christianity from any other religion, I would say it is Christ Himself, God manifested in the flesh, the Son of God going through death and resurrection and now reigning in ascension. That is, the truth, versus all human counterfeits.</p>
<p>Now I have not heard Osteen say anything much about the Person or work of Christ. What I have heard him say is that if you are not a believer in Christ, then you can pray to the Lord, admit that you are a sinner, and ask Him to come into your heart (or something similar). To me, that&#8217;s not a small thing. Does it make his ministry something that deserves our stamp of approval? Not really. But does that make the accusation &#8220;false teacher&#8221; a little bit overwrought? In my opinion, yes.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris E</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/mark-driscoll-analyzes-osteens-prosperity-gospel/comment-page-1#comment-311164</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris E</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Oct 2008 18:10:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/mark-driscoll-analyzes-osteens-prosperity-gospel#comment-311164</guid>
		<description>To treebeard and other supporters of Osteen - I would ask this.  What is it that differentiates Christianity from any other religion, and to what extent does Osteen articulate it?

When you&#039;ve answered that, answer this: How does the teaching of Osteen and others guard against idolatry? How does it guard against valuing God for what he gives you rather, rather than for himself?

Listening to Osteen brings to mind Richard Neibuhr:

&quot;A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.&quot;

Without the work of Christ on our behalf, Christianity has nothing to offer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To treebeard and other supporters of Osteen &#8211; I would ask this.  What is it that differentiates Christianity from any other religion, and to what extent does Osteen articulate it?</p>
<p>When you&#8217;ve answered that, answer this: How does the teaching of Osteen and others guard against idolatry? How does it guard against valuing God for what he gives you rather, rather than for himself?</p>
<p>Listening to Osteen brings to mind Richard Neibuhr:</p>
<p>&#8220;A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.&#8221;</p>
<p>Without the work of Christ on our behalf, Christianity has nothing to offer.</p>
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		<title>By: Trailblazer</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/mark-driscoll-analyzes-osteens-prosperity-gospel/comment-page-1#comment-311156</link>
		<dc:creator>Trailblazer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Oct 2008 17:48:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/mark-driscoll-analyzes-osteens-prosperity-gospel#comment-311156</guid>
		<description>Went to Mark Driscoll&#039;s website, out of curiosity and a problem with not only the prosperity gospel, but the watering down of much of today&#039;s teaching in the evangelical church. 

I have a big problem with churches who offer &#039;alternative&#039; Halloween parties. Calling it a &#039;Harvest Party&#039; while kids wear costumes, get candy and in general celebrate a pagan holiday. If it walks like a duck . . .

On Driscoll&#039;s web site was a justification for Christians to participate in Halloween. Taking their kids door to door or to a party.  Basically, he said this:
Halloween is not illegal
Candy tastes good
It doesn&#039;t affect your faith

Maybe, just maybe . . .  it&#039;s time for some &#039;Old Tyme Religion&#039;. A little fire and brimstone and the consequences of sin. Oops, not politically correct.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Went to Mark Driscoll&#8217;s website, out of curiosity and a problem with not only the prosperity gospel, but the watering down of much of today&#8217;s teaching in the evangelical church. </p>
<p>I have a big problem with churches who offer &#8216;alternative&#8217; Halloween parties. Calling it a &#8216;Harvest Party&#8217; while kids wear costumes, get candy and in general celebrate a pagan holiday. If it walks like a duck . . .</p>
<p>On Driscoll&#8217;s web site was a justification for Christians to participate in Halloween. Taking their kids door to door or to a party.  Basically, he said this:<br />
Halloween is not illegal<br />
Candy tastes good<br />
It doesn&#8217;t affect your faith</p>
<p>Maybe, just maybe . . .  it&#8217;s time for some &#8216;Old Tyme Religion&#8217;. A little fire and brimstone and the consequences of sin. Oops, not politically correct.</p>
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		<title>By: BartM</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/mark-driscoll-analyzes-osteens-prosperity-gospel/comment-page-1#comment-311151</link>
		<dc:creator>BartM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Oct 2008 17:30:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/mark-driscoll-analyzes-osteens-prosperity-gospel#comment-311151</guid>
		<description>&gt;&gt;&gt;tangential question, why is there a pole wrapped in barbed wire behind mark driscoll?

to keep the strippers away??</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt;&gt;&gt;tangential question, why is there a pole wrapped in barbed wire behind mark driscoll?</p>
<p>to keep the strippers away??</p>
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		<title>By: jeuby</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/mark-driscoll-analyzes-osteens-prosperity-gospel/comment-page-1#comment-310892</link>
		<dc:creator>jeuby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Oct 2008 22:03:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/mark-driscoll-analyzes-osteens-prosperity-gospel#comment-310892</guid>
		<description>tangential question, why is there a pole wrapped in barbed wire behind mark driscoll?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>tangential question, why is there a pole wrapped in barbed wire behind mark driscoll?</p>
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		<title>By: Sam Urfer</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/mark-driscoll-analyzes-osteens-prosperity-gospel/comment-page-1#comment-310886</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam Urfer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Oct 2008 21:50:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/mark-driscoll-analyzes-osteens-prosperity-gospel#comment-310886</guid>
		<description>Osteen is not offering milk, he is offering morphine, and in lethal doses.  Trying to sugar-coat the issue doesn&#039;t make it better: he is a heretic, plain and simple.  This isn&#039;t a matter of needing to understand that different people are at different levels of development.  Osteen&#039;s teachings come from Hell, and lead back there, and woe to those who tolerate it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Osteen is not offering milk, he is offering morphine, and in lethal doses.  Trying to sugar-coat the issue doesn&#8217;t make it better: he is a heretic, plain and simple.  This isn&#8217;t a matter of needing to understand that different people are at different levels of development.  Osteen&#8217;s teachings come from Hell, and lead back there, and woe to those who tolerate it.</p>
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		<title>By: Pup, MD</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/mark-driscoll-analyzes-osteens-prosperity-gospel/comment-page-1#comment-310869</link>
		<dc:creator>Pup, MD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Oct 2008 20:54:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/mark-driscoll-analyzes-osteens-prosperity-gospel#comment-310869</guid>
		<description>A pastor and a psychiatrist are not the same thing.

Everyone needs a pastor.

Some people need a psychiatrist.

Psychiatrists and pastors can work together. Should work together.

Joel Osteen is neither a psychiatrist nor a pastor.

If you need a pastor and a psychiatrist, find one of each.

If you need to be drawn away from the spiritual and emotional work you need to do, follow prosperity theology.

-a Christian psychiatrist.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A pastor and a psychiatrist are not the same thing.</p>
<p>Everyone needs a pastor.</p>
<p>Some people need a psychiatrist.</p>
<p>Psychiatrists and pastors can work together. Should work together.</p>
<p>Joel Osteen is neither a psychiatrist nor a pastor.</p>
<p>If you need a pastor and a psychiatrist, find one of each.</p>
<p>If you need to be drawn away from the spiritual and emotional work you need to do, follow prosperity theology.</p>
<p>-a Christian psychiatrist.</p>
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