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	<title>Comments on: The Man in the Shadow of Adultery</title>
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	<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/man-in-the-shadow-of-adultery</link>
	<description>...dispatches from the post-evangelical wilderness</description>
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		<title>By: Newly Wed</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/man-in-the-shadow-of-adultery/comment-page-1#comment-331987</link>
		<dc:creator>Newly Wed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Dec 2008 17:06:19 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I am married to a man who feels that it is completely normal to fantasize and masterbate, watch porn and masterbate. Without being too blunt, I feel that he has done this for so long, it has made sex with me only physical exercise. Yes, its nice, but it very rarely ends in the same way that it does for him when he is alone.  It demoralizes me.  I feel as if I can not please him and take it personal.  He is quick to say, &quot;it has nothing to do with you&quot;. I feel that when he fantasizes, he is have mental sex with another woman and it hurts me. It is a hurt that I can not even describe. He says that all men do this and that I have lived in a bubble and need to wake up to the real world. Please advise me if I am being foolish, unreasonable, over sensitive, etc. I really don&#039;t know what to do. Its ruining our marriage....causing me to feel anger and bitterness, which in turn is causing more harm than good. I should add that he is not a Christian. He went with me until we got married and then said he didn&#039;t like it. I feel that I&#039;ve ruined my life and know that without God, I&#039;m headed for heartache....a lot bigger than coming home from work to find out that he spent the day in our room having sex by himself. Why am I even there?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am married to a man who feels that it is completely normal to fantasize and masterbate, watch porn and masterbate. Without being too blunt, I feel that he has done this for so long, it has made sex with me only physical exercise. Yes, its nice, but it very rarely ends in the same way that it does for him when he is alone.  It demoralizes me.  I feel as if I can not please him and take it personal.  He is quick to say, &#8220;it has nothing to do with you&#8221;. I feel that when he fantasizes, he is have mental sex with another woman and it hurts me. It is a hurt that I can not even describe. He says that all men do this and that I have lived in a bubble and need to wake up to the real world. Please advise me if I am being foolish, unreasonable, over sensitive, etc. I really don&#8217;t know what to do. Its ruining our marriage&#8230;.causing me to feel anger and bitterness, which in turn is causing more harm than good. I should add that he is not a Christian. He went with me until we got married and then said he didn&#8217;t like it. I feel that I&#8217;ve ruined my life and know that without God, I&#8217;m headed for heartache&#8230;.a lot bigger than coming home from work to find out that he spent the day in our room having sex by himself. Why am I even there?</p>
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		<title>By: Anna A</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/man-in-the-shadow-of-adultery/comment-page-1#comment-141075</link>
		<dc:creator>Anna A</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Oct 2007 16:27:57 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Dear Mama,

   I am praying for you and for your family.  May I humbly suggest that you (and your husband if possible) seek marital counseling.  In light of what happened about the church camp, I would try to find a counselor who respects your faith, but not connected to your particular church.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Mama,</p>
<p>   I am praying for you and for your family.  May I humbly suggest that you (and your husband if possible) seek marital counseling.  In light of what happened about the church camp, I would try to find a counselor who respects your faith, but not connected to your particular church.</p>
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		<title>By: mama2/8</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/man-in-the-shadow-of-adultery/comment-page-1#comment-140959</link>
		<dc:creator>mama2/8</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Oct 2007 05:05:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/to-the-christian-man-in-the-shadow-of-adultery#comment-140959</guid>
		<description>hurting and trying to heal after 24+ years of marriage, and 8 children. We lost our oldest son (20 years old) to a construction accident and then my *Christian husband, who was talking the talk but not walking the walk, cheated on me and refused to confess &amp; made me feel crazy when I asked and accused him of cheating with his office assistant who worked at our home office. I found out by being punished (not able to work at a youth camp for the summer, because of my husbands sins) then he confessed. he wants to stay married- he love me - loves God - want to do right.   I hurt. life has changed.  I keep trying but it&#039;s not working. I doubt him and God .</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hurting and trying to heal after 24+ years of marriage, and 8 children. We lost our oldest son (20 years old) to a construction accident and then my *Christian husband, who was talking the talk but not walking the walk, cheated on me and refused to confess &amp; made me feel crazy when I asked and accused him of cheating with his office assistant who worked at our home office. I found out by being punished (not able to work at a youth camp for the summer, because of my husbands sins) then he confessed. he wants to stay married- he love me &#8211; loves God &#8211; want to do right.   I hurt. life has changed.  I keep trying but it&#8217;s not working. I doubt him and God .</p>
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		<title>By: sinnerman</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/man-in-the-shadow-of-adultery/comment-page-1#comment-124442</link>
		<dc:creator>sinnerman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Aug 2007 17:34:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/to-the-christian-man-in-the-shadow-of-adultery#comment-124442</guid>
		<description>As a fallen man who committed adultery and completely destroyed my entire life I am always looking to read analysis and encouragement from others about this subject.  While you have made some good points, I would caution that you also make some &quot;always&quot; statements that are not valid to everyone.  That is extremely dangerous, because, as someone who sinned by adultery, if you are truly repentant, and truly look to get back up and endure the pain of your sin to work towards healing for everyone you destroyed, you find that many in the church (and I&#039;m talking about the church as the Body of Christ) simply refuse to let you attain redemption on their watch.  The exceptions are, of course, those who have had a major life-altering broken experience.  You know, something bigger than your water heater developing a leak or the transmission in your car needing replacement or not being able to go to the beach this summer afterall.  

So, what happens is that the adulterous male, even as he publicly and painfully looks for redemption, even as he has turned away from his sin, is defined forever by that same sin by a frightened group of Christians afraid to forgive.  I do not know if that, for me, will ever change.  I may always, unless I move to another part of the world, be what I did and not who I was before or even who I am now.

All that to say, please be careful that you do not present your points as absolutes, because behind each affair there is a story, and it is not always the story you thought, or one that is so easy to define.  Men are not all sexual thugs looking selfishly to hurt their wives or to shun responsibility for their part in an unhappy marriage.  Your insinuation, more or less, that this is true could hurt deeply some brothers who want to rise above their sin, walk away from it, and start the &quot;healing bow&quot; and rebuild.

&quot;Quick to judge,
Quick to Anger,
Slow to Understand&quot;
Rush (Witch Hunt)

My personal story is long and complex and nothing like what most folks want to hear.  It isn&#039;t bound up in some neat and easy little &quot;He was a jerk and had an affair&quot; short story.  And I know of others who also have unique circumstamces.  Please don&#039;t hear that I would ever defend adultery under any circumstance.  What I wouldn&#039;t give to erase what I did.  But, do not judge or pretend to know the fuel that drives a man to sin unless you have been in that person&#039;s shoes.  Period.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a fallen man who committed adultery and completely destroyed my entire life I am always looking to read analysis and encouragement from others about this subject.  While you have made some good points, I would caution that you also make some &#8220;always&#8221; statements that are not valid to everyone.  That is extremely dangerous, because, as someone who sinned by adultery, if you are truly repentant, and truly look to get back up and endure the pain of your sin to work towards healing for everyone you destroyed, you find that many in the church (and I&#8217;m talking about the church as the Body of Christ) simply refuse to let you attain redemption on their watch.  The exceptions are, of course, those who have had a major life-altering broken experience.  You know, something bigger than your water heater developing a leak or the transmission in your car needing replacement or not being able to go to the beach this summer afterall.  </p>
<p>So, what happens is that the adulterous male, even as he publicly and painfully looks for redemption, even as he has turned away from his sin, is defined forever by that same sin by a frightened group of Christians afraid to forgive.  I do not know if that, for me, will ever change.  I may always, unless I move to another part of the world, be what I did and not who I was before or even who I am now.</p>
<p>All that to say, please be careful that you do not present your points as absolutes, because behind each affair there is a story, and it is not always the story you thought, or one that is so easy to define.  Men are not all sexual thugs looking selfishly to hurt their wives or to shun responsibility for their part in an unhappy marriage.  Your insinuation, more or less, that this is true could hurt deeply some brothers who want to rise above their sin, walk away from it, and start the &#8220;healing bow&#8221; and rebuild.</p>
<p>&#8220;Quick to judge,<br />
Quick to Anger,<br />
Slow to Understand&#8221;<br />
Rush (Witch Hunt)</p>
<p>My personal story is long and complex and nothing like what most folks want to hear.  It isn&#8217;t bound up in some neat and easy little &#8220;He was a jerk and had an affair&#8221; short story.  And I know of others who also have unique circumstamces.  Please don&#8217;t hear that I would ever defend adultery under any circumstance.  What I wouldn&#8217;t give to erase what I did.  But, do not judge or pretend to know the fuel that drives a man to sin unless you have been in that person&#8217;s shoes.  Period.</p>
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		<title>By: di</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/man-in-the-shadow-of-adultery/comment-page-1#comment-91893</link>
		<dc:creator>di</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 May 2007 23:24:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/to-the-christian-man-in-the-shadow-of-adultery#comment-91893</guid>
		<description>I could cry at each of the words.. My soon to ex husband will take no blame for his actions.. multiple affairs.. sexual behaviors with others. A story truly a myth that epic in all ways that tells of our &quot;bad marriage&quot; and the death of his soul from his mouth wounds more the adultery if that is possible.  He shared his pain with our pre teen daughters... moved across the country by way of 3000 miles, had very little contact with them...yet I am at fault. Lives with a &quot;friend&quot; female, and he is still not happy.  My unforgiving nature is all that stand between him and his daughters. My lack of forgiveness is all that prevents us from being friends again. Forgiveness is not for him... it is for me. I done with him, and if I did not forgive him... I could not have survived this... I just will be in any sort of relationship with him. It is just too harmful to me. He just causes pain and harm.

He has told  me that Jesus died on the cross for his sins... he has told  his sins to God, and to his new friends including his lover and he has been forgiven. Jesus died on the cross so he could commit adultery. Again, it is me who is at fault. 20 years and three children mean nothing... he needs to live his dream. 

If he would have given 1/10 of his energy to us, our marriage and family. I would have done anything for him, and the marriage. He does not value us at all. He left the marriage, and the children. I am waiting for the total self~ destruction to occur. I wish he could read the essay, and feel the pain he caused. The sad part he never will... thank you. If you reach one man, save one wife from the pain of this and most importantly save the children from the pain. It is so hurtful to them. 
You cannot have a marriage of one, I learned that the  hard way. Husband&#039;s should love their wives and children.That should be enough to stay, and make things right. His path is one that will destroy him, and I cannot help him at all. 

Wise words, I  thank you for them. It is so easy to take the whole blame when your wife in this situation. I refuse to anymore, your words tell the story. I hope it can be a cautionary tale to some men. 
Di</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I could cry at each of the words.. My soon to ex husband will take no blame for his actions.. multiple affairs.. sexual behaviors with others. A story truly a myth that epic in all ways that tells of our &#8220;bad marriage&#8221; and the death of his soul from his mouth wounds more the adultery if that is possible.  He shared his pain with our pre teen daughters&#8230; moved across the country by way of 3000 miles, had very little contact with them&#8230;yet I am at fault. Lives with a &#8220;friend&#8221; female, and he is still not happy.  My unforgiving nature is all that stand between him and his daughters. My lack of forgiveness is all that prevents us from being friends again. Forgiveness is not for him&#8230; it is for me. I done with him, and if I did not forgive him&#8230; I could not have survived this&#8230; I just will be in any sort of relationship with him. It is just too harmful to me. He just causes pain and harm.</p>
<p>He has told  me that Jesus died on the cross for his sins&#8230; he has told  his sins to God, and to his new friends including his lover and he has been forgiven. Jesus died on the cross so he could commit adultery. Again, it is me who is at fault. 20 years and three children mean nothing&#8230; he needs to live his dream. </p>
<p>If he would have given 1/10 of his energy to us, our marriage and family. I would have done anything for him, and the marriage. He does not value us at all. He left the marriage, and the children. I am waiting for the total self~ destruction to occur. I wish he could read the essay, and feel the pain he caused. The sad part he never will&#8230; thank you. If you reach one man, save one wife from the pain of this and most importantly save the children from the pain. It is so hurtful to them.<br />
You cannot have a marriage of one, I learned that the  hard way. Husband&#8217;s should love their wives and children.That should be enough to stay, and make things right. His path is one that will destroy him, and I cannot help him at all. </p>
<p>Wise words, I  thank you for them. It is so easy to take the whole blame when your wife in this situation. I refuse to anymore, your words tell the story. I hope it can be a cautionary tale to some men.<br />
Di</p>
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		<title>By: mharrison777</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/man-in-the-shadow-of-adultery/comment-page-1#comment-8337</link>
		<dc:creator>mharrison777</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Nov 2006 15:03:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/to-the-christian-man-in-the-shadow-of-adultery#comment-8337</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the article. Of the reply comments, I am one of the few people who are actually struggling with this right now and hopefully God will use this article and I will stop before it is too late. As a guy going through it - and I realize that different people operate different ways, so this is not meant to be a generalization - there is a feeling of control. I feel that I could stop at anytime and feel I would stop before sex occurred, but enjoy the excitement of the &quot;baby steps&quot; you mentioned. I believe this, so I don&#039;t even feel the need to share it with a small group of guys I meet with (and embarassment). Section 3 of your essay really hit home regarding this. In the midst of this temptation, my marriage is going great, by the way, and I love my wife more than ever. I know that may seem confusing from the outside, but I don&#039;t feel like I am really doing anything wrong yet. Just a few lunches here and there - not even that secret -, a few touches on the arm, a LOT of extra emails, and certainly not very good thoughts.

Being honest with myself after reading this essay, I can see the path I am heading down. This article will give me motivation to resist the temptation for another week or two, but it will still be there and I could easily jump back on the path and catch up to where I was in a hurry. I guess that is what is so important about having accountability and someone to share this temptation with and who will not let you jump back on the path. It seems a little drastic for something that you feel &quot;is under control&quot;, but I think I need to recognize the foolishness of what I am doing, the gravitiy of the consequences, the persuasiveness of the opponent (sin temptation and sexual drive) and ask for help. Say a short prayer for me that I bring this up to my accountability group and flee from this temptation. Thanks for the article.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the article. Of the reply comments, I am one of the few people who are actually struggling with this right now and hopefully God will use this article and I will stop before it is too late. As a guy going through it &#8211; and I realize that different people operate different ways, so this is not meant to be a generalization &#8211; there is a feeling of control. I feel that I could stop at anytime and feel I would stop before sex occurred, but enjoy the excitement of the &#8220;baby steps&#8221; you mentioned. I believe this, so I don&#8217;t even feel the need to share it with a small group of guys I meet with (and embarassment). Section 3 of your essay really hit home regarding this. In the midst of this temptation, my marriage is going great, by the way, and I love my wife more than ever. I know that may seem confusing from the outside, but I don&#8217;t feel like I am really doing anything wrong yet. Just a few lunches here and there &#8211; not even that secret -, a few touches on the arm, a LOT of extra emails, and certainly not very good thoughts.</p>
<p>Being honest with myself after reading this essay, I can see the path I am heading down. This article will give me motivation to resist the temptation for another week or two, but it will still be there and I could easily jump back on the path and catch up to where I was in a hurry. I guess that is what is so important about having accountability and someone to share this temptation with and who will not let you jump back on the path. It seems a little drastic for something that you feel &#8220;is under control&#8221;, but I think I need to recognize the foolishness of what I am doing, the gravitiy of the consequences, the persuasiveness of the opponent (sin temptation and sexual drive) and ask for help. Say a short prayer for me that I bring this up to my accountability group and flee from this temptation. Thanks for the article.</p>
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		<title>By: mikeinsac</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/man-in-the-shadow-of-adultery/comment-page-1#comment-7929</link>
		<dc:creator>mikeinsac</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Sep 2006 15:05:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/to-the-christian-man-in-the-shadow-of-adultery#comment-7929</guid>
		<description>Michael, as always, you do a fine job of both writing and analysis. I have counseled men with sexual addictions for 24 years, and I can add two other (perhaps smaller) categories of men who have affairs. 

1. Men for whom intimacy brings up internal lies about being rejected or being ridiculed. In today&#039;s cultural approach to sexuality, men are constantly robbed of that complete emotional release that sex is supposed to bring. Instead, we are harrangued at every side by the fears that we will not be seen as enough. These fears lead some men...even some with excellent marriages...to seek to prove their acceptability through sexual encounters. Of course, the reality is that the guilt and shame they feel afterward and the mocking sneer of the enemy makes their internal ridicule even worse. And if they are &quot;found out&quot; then they truly will be rejected. It isn&#039;t surprising that our lies become reality as we live them out.

2. Another group of men (and I have seen several of them lately) are angry and have been told that anger is a sin. Their solution to the anger at their wives is to hurt them through one-night stands. Passive-aggressive behavior is fueling so much sexual temptation today. There are times I feel it as a counselor and pastor. Let me rediscover the right to holy and godly anger and perhaps sexuality will lose its angry side.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael, as always, you do a fine job of both writing and analysis. I have counseled men with sexual addictions for 24 years, and I can add two other (perhaps smaller) categories of men who have affairs. </p>
<p>1. Men for whom intimacy brings up internal lies about being rejected or being ridiculed. In today&#8217;s cultural approach to sexuality, men are constantly robbed of that complete emotional release that sex is supposed to bring. Instead, we are harrangued at every side by the fears that we will not be seen as enough. These fears lead some men&#8230;even some with excellent marriages&#8230;to seek to prove their acceptability through sexual encounters. Of course, the reality is that the guilt and shame they feel afterward and the mocking sneer of the enemy makes their internal ridicule even worse. And if they are &#8220;found out&#8221; then they truly will be rejected. It isn&#8217;t surprising that our lies become reality as we live them out.</p>
<p>2. Another group of men (and I have seen several of them lately) are angry and have been told that anger is a sin. Their solution to the anger at their wives is to hurt them through one-night stands. Passive-aggressive behavior is fueling so much sexual temptation today. There are times I feel it as a counselor and pastor. Let me rediscover the right to holy and godly anger and perhaps sexuality will lose its angry side.</p>
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		<title>By: bob smietana</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/man-in-the-shadow-of-adultery/comment-page-1#comment-7920</link>
		<dc:creator>bob smietana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Sep 2006 20:56:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/to-the-christian-man-in-the-shadow-of-adultery#comment-7920</guid>
		<description>Andrew Goodwin wrote about adultery for salon.com--in which he discussed his own temptation and his girlfriend&#039;s affair with someone else. These three lines have stuck with me: 

&quot;Affairs do not begin with kisses; they begin with lunch. Or something like it. So when you hide  the shared meal and the excitement that came with it, you do so for a reason.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Andrew Goodwin wrote about adultery for salon.com&#8211;in which he discussed his own temptation and his girlfriend&#8217;s affair with someone else. These three lines have stuck with me: </p>
<p>&#8220;Affairs do not begin with kisses; they begin with lunch. Or something like it. So when you hide  the shared meal and the excitement that came with it, you do so for a reason.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Spencer</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/man-in-the-shadow-of-adultery/comment-page-1#comment-7918</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Spencer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Sep 2006 17:23:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/to-the-christian-man-in-the-shadow-of-adultery#comment-7918</guid>
		<description>I did not mean to imply that this is a male only problem. I think in my cultural niche, it is a predominantly male problem, but I know that isn&#039;t the case in other areas, esp urban, academia, etc. And in many churches.

I am just a guy writing to other guys. Not a researcher.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I did not mean to imply that this is a male only problem. I think in my cultural niche, it is a predominantly male problem, but I know that isn&#8217;t the case in other areas, esp urban, academia, etc. And in many churches.</p>
<p>I am just a guy writing to other guys. Not a researcher.</p>
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		<title>By: W</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/man-in-the-shadow-of-adultery/comment-page-1#comment-7916</link>
		<dc:creator>W</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Sep 2006 17:08:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/to-the-christian-man-in-the-shadow-of-adultery#comment-7916</guid>
		<description>I think it&#039;s also important to note that men who ultimately do choose adultery typically choose to do so with a woman.

So the numbers are pretty even as far as men and women sinning sexually.

These men are typically not having affairs with other men.

Even if the female affair partners are not married, they are still part of a marriage damaging and/or destroying affair.

So, I don&#039;t really believe one can characterize this as a male or gender specific issue. Women are just as involved in affairs as men.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it&#8217;s also important to note that men who ultimately do choose adultery typically choose to do so with a woman.</p>
<p>So the numbers are pretty even as far as men and women sinning sexually.</p>
<p>These men are typically not having affairs with other men.</p>
<p>Even if the female affair partners are not married, they are still part of a marriage damaging and/or destroying affair.</p>
<p>So, I don&#8217;t really believe one can characterize this as a male or gender specific issue. Women are just as involved in affairs as men.</p>
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