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	<title>Comments on: Looking Away From The Darkened Sun</title>
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	<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/looking-away-from-the-dark-sun</link>
	<description>...dispatches from the post-evangelical wilderness</description>
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		<title>By: MarieBee</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/looking-away-from-the-dark-sun/comment-page-1#comment-5049</link>
		<dc:creator>MarieBee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Dec 2005 02:07:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/index.php/?p=260#comment-5049</guid>
		<description>Thanks so much for such an affirming article. For those of us who have experienced the &quot;dark night&quot;, it is a relief to  have someone else in the Christian community express the idea that the Christain walk isn&#039;t always &quot;walking in victory&quot;. I&#039;ve heard enough of that clap trap to last me a lifetime. I&#039;ve also heard pastors blame individuals experiencing the darkness as though more Bible reading will be a quick fix... the &quot;all you have to do&quot; syndrome. The evangelicla church does a perfectly lousy job of facing the fact that sin, sickness, death are big problems that all the faith in the world will not fix.Isn&#039;t that the paradox that in the very weakness we are stuck in, Christ promises His strength? I just wish I found this article a few weeks ago..... Thanks again for stimulating writingl</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks so much for such an affirming article. For those of us who have experienced the &#8220;dark night&#8221;, it is a relief to  have someone else in the Christian community express the idea that the Christain walk isn&#8217;t always &#8220;walking in victory&#8221;. I&#8217;ve heard enough of that clap trap to last me a lifetime. I&#8217;ve also heard pastors blame individuals experiencing the darkness as though more Bible reading will be a quick fix&#8230; the &#8220;all you have to do&#8221; syndrome. The evangelicla church does a perfectly lousy job of facing the fact that sin, sickness, death are big problems that all the faith in the world will not fix.Isn&#8217;t that the paradox that in the very weakness we are stuck in, Christ promises His strength? I just wish I found this article a few weeks ago&#8230;.. Thanks again for stimulating writingl</p>
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		<title>By: rowie</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/looking-away-from-the-dark-sun/comment-page-1#comment-4897</link>
		<dc:creator>rowie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Dec 2005 15:57:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/index.php/?p=260#comment-4897</guid>
		<description>I really do encourage everyone to read the great Catholic mystics&#039; explorations of inner desolation and the &quot;dark night.&quot; 

The contemplative life demands a heightened sensitivity and constant attention to the inner movements of one&#039;s soul in relation to God.  Ignatius of Loyola is a perfect starting-point for beginners in the life of contemplation: he talks about consolation (those moments when we feel moved with joy or tears because of a sense of God&#039;s love for us), and desolation (those moments when God feels very distant and our spiritual lives feel empty).  More importantly, he helps pray-ers distinguish between true consolation (consolation which comes from God), and false consolation (consolation used as trickery by the evil spirit to lead us astray).

John of the Cross helps more mature pray-ers understand the Dark Night of the Soul, where we are called to surrender ourselves in complete abandonment to God, even if and when we do not find consolation.

And of course, for all wishing to enter into a more contemplative prayer life, Teresa of Avila&#039;s autobiography--the same one that made a convert of Edith Stein--is a must-read.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I really do encourage everyone to read the great Catholic mystics&#8217; explorations of inner desolation and the &#8220;dark night.&#8221; </p>
<p>The contemplative life demands a heightened sensitivity and constant attention to the inner movements of one&#8217;s soul in relation to God.  Ignatius of Loyola is a perfect starting-point for beginners in the life of contemplation: he talks about consolation (those moments when we feel moved with joy or tears because of a sense of God&#8217;s love for us), and desolation (those moments when God feels very distant and our spiritual lives feel empty).  More importantly, he helps pray-ers distinguish between true consolation (consolation which comes from God), and false consolation (consolation used as trickery by the evil spirit to lead us astray).</p>
<p>John of the Cross helps more mature pray-ers understand the Dark Night of the Soul, where we are called to surrender ourselves in complete abandonment to God, even if and when we do not find consolation.</p>
<p>And of course, for all wishing to enter into a more contemplative prayer life, Teresa of Avila&#8217;s autobiography&#8211;the same one that made a convert of Edith Stein&#8211;is a must-read.</p>
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		<title>By: rowie</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/looking-away-from-the-dark-sun/comment-page-1#comment-4895</link>
		<dc:creator>rowie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Dec 2005 15:42:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/index.php/?p=260#comment-4895</guid>
		<description>I really do encourage everyone to read (or read about) the great Catholic mystics&#039; explorations of inner desolation and the &quot;dark night.&quot; 

The contemplative life demands a heightened sensitivity and constant attention to the inner movements of one&#039;s soul in relation to God.  Ignatius of Loyola is a perfect starting-point for beginners in the life of contemplation: he talks about consolation (those moments when we feel moved with joy or tears because of a sense of God&#039;s love for us), and desolation (those moments when God feels very distant and our spiritual lives feel empty).  More importantly, he helps pray-ers distinguish between true consolation (consolation which comes from God), and false consolation (consolation used as trickery by the evil spirit to lead us astray).

John of the Cross helps more mature pray-ers understand the Dark Night of the Soul, where we are called to surrender ourselves in complete abandonment to God, even if and when we do not find consolation.

Of course, for all wishing to enter into a more contemplative prayer life, Teresa of Avila&#039;s autobiography--the same one that made a convert of Edith Stein--is a must-read.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I really do encourage everyone to read (or read about) the great Catholic mystics&#8217; explorations of inner desolation and the &#8220;dark night.&#8221; </p>
<p>The contemplative life demands a heightened sensitivity and constant attention to the inner movements of one&#8217;s soul in relation to God.  Ignatius of Loyola is a perfect starting-point for beginners in the life of contemplation: he talks about consolation (those moments when we feel moved with joy or tears because of a sense of God&#8217;s love for us), and desolation (those moments when God feels very distant and our spiritual lives feel empty).  More importantly, he helps pray-ers distinguish between true consolation (consolation which comes from God), and false consolation (consolation used as trickery by the evil spirit to lead us astray).</p>
<p>John of the Cross helps more mature pray-ers understand the Dark Night of the Soul, where we are called to surrender ourselves in complete abandonment to God, even if and when we do not find consolation.</p>
<p>Of course, for all wishing to enter into a more contemplative prayer life, Teresa of Avila&#8217;s autobiography&#8211;the same one that made a convert of Edith Stein&#8211;is a must-read.</p>
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		<title>By: Marcguyver</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/looking-away-from-the-dark-sun/comment-page-1#comment-4892</link>
		<dc:creator>Marcguyver</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Dec 2005 01:49:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/index.php/?p=260#comment-4892</guid>
		<description>Obviously, only tribulation and trial will truly bring about the kind of long term faith that God truly desires.......or so it would seem.

Will we put our trust in Him even if He fails to &#039;deliver&#039; us?
Or what if we wind up suffering at the hands of the ungodly in a communist prison because we&#039;ve committed the crime of &#039;sharing the gospel&#039;?

I hope my faith endures and it can be said of me in the end that I trusted God even when it didn&#039;t seem to make sense.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Obviously, only tribulation and trial will truly bring about the kind of long term faith that God truly desires&#8230;&#8230;.or so it would seem.</p>
<p>Will we put our trust in Him even if He fails to &#8216;deliver&#8217; us?<br />
Or what if we wind up suffering at the hands of the ungodly in a communist prison because we&#8217;ve committed the crime of &#8216;sharing the gospel&#8217;?</p>
<p>I hope my faith endures and it can be said of me in the end that I trusted God even when it didn&#8217;t seem to make sense.</p>
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		<title>By: onionboy</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/looking-away-from-the-dark-sun/comment-page-1#comment-4867</link>
		<dc:creator>onionboy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Dec 2005 22:09:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/index.php/?p=260#comment-4867</guid>
		<description>However, I did it poorly myself. For the record Colson does not imply Teresa and John were Puritans; my bad reading of Chucks good grammar is the expanation. My apology for any angst or confusion caused by my duh comment.

However, it is worth noting though that Colson refers to saints in the Protestant understanding and does not call these authors by title which their own writings carry; Saint Teresa of Avila and Saint John of the Cross nor does he say straight out that these people that are Catholic only that they are of &quot;older and richer theological traditions.&quot;

Owen</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>However, I did it poorly myself. For the record Colson does not imply Teresa and John were Puritans; my bad reading of Chucks good grammar is the expanation. My apology for any angst or confusion caused by my duh comment.</p>
<p>However, it is worth noting though that Colson refers to saints in the Protestant understanding and does not call these authors by title which their own writings carry; Saint Teresa of Avila and Saint John of the Cross nor does he say straight out that these people that are Catholic only that they are of &#8220;older and richer theological traditions.&#8221;</p>
<p>Owen</p>
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		<title>By: onionboy</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/looking-away-from-the-dark-sun/comment-page-1#comment-4866</link>
		<dc:creator>onionboy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Dec 2005 21:09:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/index.php/?p=260#comment-4866</guid>
		<description>Chuck gets it write in a well written piece when he notes that evangelicals could learn from the likes of Teresa of Avila and John of the Cross when facing the internal struggles of faith and personal sorrow.

Chuck does it poorly when, in the immediately subsequent paragraph, he seems to imply that these people evangelicals could learn from Puritans:

&quot;In the evangelical heritage, we could draw on spiritual forebears like the Puritans...&quot;

Unless I missed something both of these individuals he has highligthed were Roman Catholic. :)

Owen
thrive!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chuck gets it write in a well written piece when he notes that evangelicals could learn from the likes of Teresa of Avila and John of the Cross when facing the internal struggles of faith and personal sorrow.</p>
<p>Chuck does it poorly when, in the immediately subsequent paragraph, he seems to imply that these people evangelicals could learn from Puritans:</p>
<p>&#8220;In the evangelical heritage, we could draw on spiritual forebears like the Puritans&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>Unless I missed something both of these individuals he has highligthed were Roman Catholic. <img src='http://www.internetmonk.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Owen<br />
thrive!</p>
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		<title>By: jason</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/looking-away-from-the-dark-sun/comment-page-1#comment-4864</link>
		<dc:creator>jason</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Dec 2005 20:35:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/index.php/?p=260#comment-4864</guid>
		<description>thanks for this michael! sometimes the little synchronicities of the kingdom amaze me. i brought this very issue up this week at my home group and witnessed the Lord minister powerfully to someone through it. then i visited here today and saw your post. God bless!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>thanks for this michael! sometimes the little synchronicities of the kingdom amaze me. i brought this very issue up this week at my home group and witnessed the Lord minister powerfully to someone through it. then i visited here today and saw your post. God bless!</p>
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		<title>By: holty007</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/looking-away-from-the-dark-sun/comment-page-1#comment-4862</link>
		<dc:creator>holty007</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Dec 2005 19:28:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/index.php/?p=260#comment-4862</guid>
		<description>I think this is wonderful.  As a Catholic, I&#039;m so happy to see so many protestants beginning to realize the beauty of respecting tradition and Tradition.  Catholicism, the faith founded by Jesus Christ for the salvation of souls, has been around for 2,000 years and has been through it all.  The wisdom found in the Catholic faith can be found nowhere else.  Catholicism answers your deepest questions and longings where modern protestantism leaves you wanting.

Come join the Church found by Jesus Christ-- come join the Catholic Church!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think this is wonderful.  As a Catholic, I&#8217;m so happy to see so many protestants beginning to realize the beauty of respecting tradition and Tradition.  Catholicism, the faith founded by Jesus Christ for the salvation of souls, has been around for 2,000 years and has been through it all.  The wisdom found in the Catholic faith can be found nowhere else.  Catholicism answers your deepest questions and longings where modern protestantism leaves you wanting.</p>
<p>Come join the Church found by Jesus Christ&#8211; come join the Catholic Church!</p>
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		<title>By: Sean R.</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/looking-away-from-the-dark-sun/comment-page-1#comment-4857</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean R.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Dec 2005 18:44:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/index.php/?p=260#comment-4857</guid>
		<description>Michael:

What a timely essay (for me anyway)!

My wife and I went through a ten year 
&quot;dark night&quot; stuggling w/ depression. 
We both have had problems with it on
and off. It wreaked havoc in our early
marriage. Sometime during that dark period 
we found out our son had Aspergers syndrome, 
which can cause some very difficult behavior 
issues in some people. 

Some time late in our dark period, I had a 
&quot;shouting match&quot; (read as temper tantrum) with 
the Lord. I asked him why he thought two people who
were battling depression needed a child  like ours.

The answer, looking back, was that the Lord allowed
us to go through what we did with our son so that 
I would have to confront my own sickness and get the 
help I needed. (The kid needed me to be his father,
not some great big mountain of depression and self pity.)

I hesitate to say, &quot;I&#039;d do it all over again&quot;, it really
was painful for all of us. We learned so much, however, 
about God&#039;s depth and wisdom by having to battle through 
what we did.

I hope this wasn&#039;t &quot;too much information&quot; for you or
any other readers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael:</p>
<p>What a timely essay (for me anyway)!</p>
<p>My wife and I went through a ten year<br />
&#8220;dark night&#8221; stuggling w/ depression.<br />
We both have had problems with it on<br />
and off. It wreaked havoc in our early<br />
marriage. Sometime during that dark period<br />
we found out our son had Aspergers syndrome,<br />
which can cause some very difficult behavior<br />
issues in some people. </p>
<p>Some time late in our dark period, I had a<br />
&#8220;shouting match&#8221; (read as temper tantrum) with<br />
the Lord. I asked him why he thought two people who<br />
were battling depression needed a child  like ours.</p>
<p>The answer, looking back, was that the Lord allowed<br />
us to go through what we did with our son so that<br />
I would have to confront my own sickness and get the<br />
help I needed. (The kid needed me to be his father,<br />
not some great big mountain of depression and self pity.)</p>
<p>I hesitate to say, &#8220;I&#8217;d do it all over again&#8221;, it really<br />
was painful for all of us. We learned so much, however,<br />
about God&#8217;s depth and wisdom by having to battle through<br />
what we did.</p>
<p>I hope this wasn&#8217;t &#8220;too much information&#8221; for you or<br />
any other readers.</p>
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		<title>By: Broken Messenger</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/looking-away-from-the-dark-sun/comment-page-1#comment-4856</link>
		<dc:creator>Broken Messenger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Dec 2005 16:36:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/index.php/?p=260#comment-4856</guid>
		<description>Michael,

Oh, and wonderful article by the way. Thank you for bringing this subject up.

Brad</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael,</p>
<p>Oh, and wonderful article by the way. Thank you for bringing this subject up.</p>
<p>Brad</p>
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