Comments on: Liturgical Gangstas 5: “When Were You Saved?”

By: Ray J

Ray J — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 21:42:04 +0000

I was saved when Jesus died and rose again. I made “the good confession” when I was 17.

By: Randy K

Randy K — Fri, 06 Feb 2009 20:14:22 +0000

Thanks to all for this but especially Pastor Cwirla. This former Baptist youth minister turned LCMS Lutheran appreciates about everything I read by you or have heard on the God Whisperers.

I would love to see a question read, “What is the Gospel?” This one question and Lutheran (actually Biblical) distinction between Law and Gospel has been one of the most freeing discoveries of my wife and I since even before we were confirmed together back in 1995. Thanks again for your great witness and explanations.
Blessings,
Randy

By: John D'Alton

John D'Alton — Thu, 05 Feb 2009 03:36:03 +0000

Very informative. Thanks. Well done Fr. Ernesto (I’m biassed of course).
in Christ,
Fr. John D’Alton (Antiochian Orthodox)

By: Matthew N. Petersen

Matthew N. Petersen — Wed, 04 Feb 2009 01:30:21 +0000

Well, of course it’s a package deal. I could say “March 25, 4 BC” or “December 25, 4 BC” or “February 2, 3 BC” or “When to Jordan came our Lord the Christ, to do God’s pleasure willing, and there was by St. John baptized, all righteousness fulfilling” or “in supreme nocte caene” or “when the water flowed from his pierced side” or “A thursday, forty days after Easter Sunday, 33 AD” or “A Sunday, a week and a half after that” or even “when I saw Christ as He is” (for surely the Eschaton is prior to now).

(Though that last is perhaps a bit presumptions. Perhaps “I sure hope I was saved when I shall see Christ as He is.” is better.)

But unless you were trying to make a point about the Incarnation and said “Lady Day, 4 BC” none of those have the ring of “Easter Sunday, 33 AD.” Maybe your Good Friday, but:

“now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.”

By: wmcwirla

wmcwirla — Wed, 04 Feb 2009 00:00:02 +0000

Easter Sunday 33 AD?

Package deal (Romans 4:25).
“It is finished” (Good Friday 33 AD).

By: Matthew N. Petersen

Matthew N. Petersen — Tue, 03 Feb 2009 23:38:02 +0000

Easter Sunday 33 AD?

By: centorian

centorian — Tue, 03 Feb 2009 23:09:26 +0000

Patrick and Cindy,
No, sorry, you both mis-read the intent and purpose of my response to Ernesto. Perhaps it would been best to e-mail Ernesto and discuss it privately with him………….. btw, he didn’t express any cocern or made any attempt to “regulate” my converstion with him…..

By: wmcwirla

wmcwirla — Mon, 02 Feb 2009 14:59:27 +0000

Afterthought: I agree completely with the little summary by J. Jenkins above. He is speaking chronologically. The reason I introduced the concept of kairos (time as eternal moment) into the discussion was to ensure that we do not make salvation a process but always keep it whole and entire. You cannot fraction a kairotic moment.

By: wmcwirla

wmcwirla — Mon, 02 Feb 2009 14:52:32 +0000

Salvation is not a process but quite the opposite. It is always presented, applied, and received whole and entire, no matter when it happens. This is where the distinction of kairos and chronos is so important, otherwise you can’t make any sense of out Christ being slain from the foundation of the world (Rev 13:8) and yet slain at 3 PM on a Friday. Or the doctrine of election for that matter.

The question posed was “When were you saved?” which demands that we take time and the interface between time and eternity seriously. Salvation is always a crisis of the present moment. “Now is the time of your salvation.” And what Christ does in the “now,” whether baptizing you, preaching to you, giving you His Body and Blood, is a moment of salvation that brings everything He has done to bear on you in the present moment. For example, in Holy Absolution, your sins, which are always forgiven in Christ, are forgiven you in the present moment, and they are forgiven whole and entire, even though your confession may be partial and incomplete.

Equally profitable would be the question “How are you saved?” but we’ll save that for another round with my fellow Gangstas.

By: Cindy

Cindy — Mon, 02 Feb 2009 00:00:54 +0000

Michael asked a simple question (in my judgment) and I answered it how I lived it.

I like that you did. As a lifelong, evangelical Protestant, it was good to read it an answer the evangelical lingua franca. I like though, that it was answered differently by each participant.

I donâ€™t think Pastor Cwirla meant to suggest salvation was a process, but am left a little confused by it.

J. Jenkins, I'm sorry if I muddled things or put words in anyone's mouth. What I love best about Rev. Cwirla's answer is the care he takes in discussing our finite nature in relation to (and with) the eternal.