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	<title>Comments on: Liturgical Gangstas 13: Projector Please?!</title>
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	<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/liturgical-gangstas-13-projector-please</link>
	<description>...dispatches from the post-evangelical wilderness</description>
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		<title>By: Joe Boysel</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/liturgical-gangstas-13-projector-please/comment-page-1#comment-504858</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Boysel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Jul 2009 07:39:53 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Joel, since you have misunderstood my theological process, it&#039;s little surprise that you failed to see why I would agree with you. I suppose I should not have been so glib, as you put it, but sometimes I seek to build charity from understatement rather than the rancor that comes from direct confrontation in this medium. But for the sake of clarity, let me be more direct:

My point was predicated upon a belief that technology is a part of what it means to be human, and God loves humans. In fact, being human is good. Technology is therefore also good, for it is a gift from the Creator to the humans. Technology is anthropology. Still, every advance in technology offers both promise and compromise. Deciding how to limit the technology so that it serves the creature instead of the other way around is the primary theological task (and the reason why I believe the liturgy precedes the delivery mechanism). BTW, this is where I think Ellul and Marva Dawn seek to go, but err in an overabundance of caution (or where I err in an overabundance of liberty, if you choose).

When Scripture went from oral transmission to written manuscript something was gained while something else was lost. When flying buttresses allowed architects (arche+techne) to build larger cathedrals something was gained while something else was lost. When sound systems were invented to project voice further (and in some cases for the first time, e.g. the hard of hearing) something was gained while something else was lost. Surely you see this? So, the fact is I do not have a theology of projection (like Ellul and Dawn), I have a theology of humanity and with it a theology of technology (techne). Some see the trees (Ellul &amp; Dawn), I see the forest.

OK, is that pragmatism? Perhaps. But not of the willy-nilly-who gives-a-#@%!-type. Rather, it&#039;s a type of pragmatism that enters the world with a robust view of prevenient grace (aha, I gave it away, I&#039;m Reformed in the Wesleyan sense!) expecting God to act in the world God created and in the world humans have crafted with their skills and their sin. 

So, we all have pragmatic decisions to make. And while your decision against projectors may give you reason to delight in your piety, I think it&#039;s going to be a short-lived celebration when you begin to evaluate what you are willing to allow and why, and what you have not allowed any why.

With Blessings,
Joe+</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joel, since you have misunderstood my theological process, it&#8217;s little surprise that you failed to see why I would agree with you. I suppose I should not have been so glib, as you put it, but sometimes I seek to build charity from understatement rather than the rancor that comes from direct confrontation in this medium. But for the sake of clarity, let me be more direct:</p>
<p>My point was predicated upon a belief that technology is a part of what it means to be human, and God loves humans. In fact, being human is good. Technology is therefore also good, for it is a gift from the Creator to the humans. Technology is anthropology. Still, every advance in technology offers both promise and compromise. Deciding how to limit the technology so that it serves the creature instead of the other way around is the primary theological task (and the reason why I believe the liturgy precedes the delivery mechanism). BTW, this is where I think Ellul and Marva Dawn seek to go, but err in an overabundance of caution (or where I err in an overabundance of liberty, if you choose).</p>
<p>When Scripture went from oral transmission to written manuscript something was gained while something else was lost. When flying buttresses allowed architects (arche+techne) to build larger cathedrals something was gained while something else was lost. When sound systems were invented to project voice further (and in some cases for the first time, e.g. the hard of hearing) something was gained while something else was lost. Surely you see this? So, the fact is I do not have a theology of projection (like Ellul and Dawn), I have a theology of humanity and with it a theology of technology (techne). Some see the trees (Ellul &amp; Dawn), I see the forest.</p>
<p>OK, is that pragmatism? Perhaps. But not of the willy-nilly-who gives-a-#@%!-type. Rather, it&#8217;s a type of pragmatism that enters the world with a robust view of prevenient grace (aha, I gave it away, I&#8217;m Reformed in the Wesleyan sense!) expecting God to act in the world God created and in the world humans have crafted with their skills and their sin. </p>
<p>So, we all have pragmatic decisions to make. And while your decision against projectors may give you reason to delight in your piety, I think it&#8217;s going to be a short-lived celebration when you begin to evaluate what you are willing to allow and why, and what you have not allowed any why.</p>
<p>With Blessings,<br />
Joe+</p>
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		<title>By: Ross</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/liturgical-gangstas-13-projector-please/comment-page-1#comment-504407</link>
		<dc:creator>Ross</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Jul 2009 04:33:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=3773#comment-504407</guid>
		<description>Some personal observations.

First off as a medical friend likes to say: &quot;We are all wonderfully and UNIQUELY made by our creator.&quot;
To me the simple version is &quot;One size DOES NOT fit all.&quot;

I&#039;m deep into technology. I earn a living being deep in it. Very deep. But I still carry around 3x5 cards in my pocket to make quick notes. There are just times when a stylus, keypad, keyboard, display, etc... just don&#039;t work. So ...

As a recent and somewhat ongoing church shopper I&#039;ve been in multiple settings over the last year. All but one used projectors/screens. Here&#039;s my take.

Put up the pastor or whoever is in front on the screen most of the time. This is the single best use of the technology when a sanctuary gets to a size that will seat over 500. It means the folks in the back half can see the face and expressions of whoever is talking, singing, etc... It really helps most of us keep our brain in gear.

Step hard on the impulse to make it look &quot;cool&quot; or even &quot;neat&quot;. Serifed light beige text on a linen background with a cross image watermarked in the background is very hard for most folks to read. Looks cool but hard to read. And time spent concentrating on reading the text on the screen takes away from the worship. Stick to simple / plain non-serifed displays on a plan background. Maybe putting things like bible verses up on the bottom 1/3 while keeping the pastor on the top 2/3s. And LEAVE IT UP LONG ENOUGH for those of us who are not staring non stop at the screen to make a note.

Fill in the blank sermon notes drive me crazy. But on of my favorite pastors does this so go figure.

One useful thing I&#039;ve seen with projected displays is notes like &quot;Parent 4321 come to the toddler room NOW! :)

In keeping with the theme that things like this should not distract from the worship service I absolutely hate the hand held camera used during the music at one large church to give you those close ups of various folks playing or singing from odd angles. It almost makes you HAVE to watch the screen instead of the live people to keep from being distracted by this guy running around as if it&#039;s an American Idol set.

And to repeat a theme I mentioned earlier, graphic artists tend to be a select subset of people. There are many of us who can&#039;t appreciate their &quot;cool&quot; stuff. I&#039;m a perfect example. I have color vision issues. So does 10% to 20% of the US male population with northern European heritage. Black letters on red or the other way around is a disaster for us. We can read it if we stare at the letters and then spell things out but in general we&#039;re blind to it. And finally after 10 years of being a hip way to present things it is starting to loose it&#039;s luster. Thank Goodness.

KISS.

And the one church we attended for a while that did not use anything like this was a 500 seat sanctuary of an AMiA congregation. Everything was in the bulletin including the words to the songs. Worked well. But it was small enough that you had a clear view of whoever was &quot;up front&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some personal observations.</p>
<p>First off as a medical friend likes to say: &#8220;We are all wonderfully and UNIQUELY made by our creator.&#8221;<br />
To me the simple version is &#8220;One size DOES NOT fit all.&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;m deep into technology. I earn a living being deep in it. Very deep. But I still carry around 3&#215;5 cards in my pocket to make quick notes. There are just times when a stylus, keypad, keyboard, display, etc&#8230; just don&#8217;t work. So &#8230;</p>
<p>As a recent and somewhat ongoing church shopper I&#8217;ve been in multiple settings over the last year. All but one used projectors/screens. Here&#8217;s my take.</p>
<p>Put up the pastor or whoever is in front on the screen most of the time. This is the single best use of the technology when a sanctuary gets to a size that will seat over 500. It means the folks in the back half can see the face and expressions of whoever is talking, singing, etc&#8230; It really helps most of us keep our brain in gear.</p>
<p>Step hard on the impulse to make it look &#8220;cool&#8221; or even &#8220;neat&#8221;. Serifed light beige text on a linen background with a cross image watermarked in the background is very hard for most folks to read. Looks cool but hard to read. And time spent concentrating on reading the text on the screen takes away from the worship. Stick to simple / plain non-serifed displays on a plan background. Maybe putting things like bible verses up on the bottom 1/3 while keeping the pastor on the top 2/3s. And LEAVE IT UP LONG ENOUGH for those of us who are not staring non stop at the screen to make a note.</p>
<p>Fill in the blank sermon notes drive me crazy. But on of my favorite pastors does this so go figure.</p>
<p>One useful thing I&#8217;ve seen with projected displays is notes like &#8220;Parent 4321 come to the toddler room NOW! <img src='http://www.internetmonk.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>In keeping with the theme that things like this should not distract from the worship service I absolutely hate the hand held camera used during the music at one large church to give you those close ups of various folks playing or singing from odd angles. It almost makes you HAVE to watch the screen instead of the live people to keep from being distracted by this guy running around as if it&#8217;s an American Idol set.</p>
<p>And to repeat a theme I mentioned earlier, graphic artists tend to be a select subset of people. There are many of us who can&#8217;t appreciate their &#8220;cool&#8221; stuff. I&#8217;m a perfect example. I have color vision issues. So does 10% to 20% of the US male population with northern European heritage. Black letters on red or the other way around is a disaster for us. We can read it if we stare at the letters and then spell things out but in general we&#8217;re blind to it. And finally after 10 years of being a hip way to present things it is starting to loose it&#8217;s luster. Thank Goodness.</p>
<p>KISS.</p>
<p>And the one church we attended for a while that did not use anything like this was a 500 seat sanctuary of an AMiA congregation. Everything was in the bulletin including the words to the songs. Worked well. But it was small enough that you had a clear view of whoever was &#8220;up front&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Ross</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/liturgical-gangstas-13-projector-please/comment-page-1#comment-504403</link>
		<dc:creator>Ross</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Jul 2009 03:33:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=3773#comment-504403</guid>
		<description>Because the displays/projectors don&#039;t have the needed resolution. It would look ugly at best, and like a jumbled mess most likely.

Projectors typically have a resolution of 1024 or 1280 dots across the total width of the screen. Printed books are typically well over 1000 dots per inch which leads to 7000 dots of resolution over a 7&quot; wide page of information. (Margins don&#039;t count.) And you&#039;d be hard pressed to find any 300 dot per inch printers for sale these days. Most are 600 or 1200.

What this means is that fine details don&#039;t transfer well from printed page to a display of any kind unless your budget is well north of rediculous.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Because the displays/projectors don&#8217;t have the needed resolution. It would look ugly at best, and like a jumbled mess most likely.</p>
<p>Projectors typically have a resolution of 1024 or 1280 dots across the total width of the screen. Printed books are typically well over 1000 dots per inch which leads to 7000 dots of resolution over a 7&#8243; wide page of information. (Margins don&#8217;t count.) And you&#8217;d be hard pressed to find any 300 dot per inch printers for sale these days. Most are 600 or 1200.</p>
<p>What this means is that fine details don&#8217;t transfer well from printed page to a display of any kind unless your budget is well north of rediculous.</p>
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		<title>By: joel hunter</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/liturgical-gangstas-13-projector-please/comment-page-1#comment-504376</link>
		<dc:creator>joel hunter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Jul 2009 18:05:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=3773#comment-504376</guid>
		<description>In spite of the glibness of your response, I think you have a very serious and rigorous theology about these matters. And it appears to be this: if it works, then the right theology can be given. One&#039;s methodology must shape and determine one&#039;s theology.

Therefore, I find it curiously contradictory that you would agree with me that the technical should not be the primary value under which the liturgy is evaluated. For everything else that you wrote betrays the contrary: the technical concerns solutions to problems (the &quot;problem&quot; here is the delivery of information to people), of &quot;getting results.&quot; The technical virtues are efficiency, effectiveness, and innovation. The technical vices are waste, uselessness and stagnancy.

You include yourself in the group &quot;us Reformed folk.&quot; I commend Jacques Ellul to you.

BTW, I&#039;m Anglican. But I am quite rightly mistaken for a Lutheran on my better days.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In spite of the glibness of your response, I think you have a very serious and rigorous theology about these matters. And it appears to be this: if it works, then the right theology can be given. One&#8217;s methodology must shape and determine one&#8217;s theology.</p>
<p>Therefore, I find it curiously contradictory that you would agree with me that the technical should not be the primary value under which the liturgy is evaluated. For everything else that you wrote betrays the contrary: the technical concerns solutions to problems (the &#8220;problem&#8221; here is the delivery of information to people), of &#8220;getting results.&#8221; The technical virtues are efficiency, effectiveness, and innovation. The technical vices are waste, uselessness and stagnancy.</p>
<p>You include yourself in the group &#8220;us Reformed folk.&#8221; I commend Jacques Ellul to you.</p>
<p>BTW, I&#8217;m Anglican. But I am quite rightly mistaken for a Lutheran on my better days.</p>
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		<title>By: Anna A</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/liturgical-gangstas-13-projector-please/comment-page-1#comment-504078</link>
		<dc:creator>Anna A</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Jul 2009 23:39:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=3773#comment-504078</guid>
		<description>Anne,

   It doesn&#039;t have to be a church in the country for that kind of thinking.  Southeast Christian in Louisville, KY designed their main church without even stained glass windows to avoid distraction.  

I&#039;ve never been there, but I read about it in the Louisville paper</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anne,</p>
<p>   It doesn&#8217;t have to be a church in the country for that kind of thinking.  Southeast Christian in Louisville, KY designed their main church without even stained glass windows to avoid distraction.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;ve never been there, but I read about it in the Louisville paper</p>
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		<title>By: JJoe</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/liturgical-gangstas-13-projector-please/comment-page-1#comment-504003</link>
		<dc:creator>JJoe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Jul 2009 18:03:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=3773#comment-504003</guid>
		<description>I just read an article about how injuries to the spectators from foul balls are up because people aren&#039;t watching the game as closely anymore. They&#039;re looking at the big screen, or texting, or surfing the web from their seat.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just read an article about how injuries to the spectators from foul balls are up because people aren&#8217;t watching the game as closely anymore. They&#8217;re looking at the big screen, or texting, or surfing the web from their seat.</p>
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		<title>By: Sensus Divinitatis News</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/liturgical-gangstas-13-projector-please/comment-page-1#comment-503954</link>
		<dc:creator>Sensus Divinitatis News</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Jul 2009 14:58:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=3773#comment-503954</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Liturgical Gangstas 13: Projector Please?!...&lt;/strong&gt;

This post was chosen as newsworthy at Sensus Divinitatis News....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Liturgical Gangstas 13: Projector Please?!&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>This post was chosen as newsworthy at Sensus Divinitatis News&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Derek</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/liturgical-gangstas-13-projector-please/comment-page-1#comment-503950</link>
		<dc:creator>Derek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Jul 2009 14:53:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=3773#comment-503950</guid>
		<description>Ancient.  I&#039;ve got a few friends in London and scattered around Ireland and Scotland.  We &quot;Yanks&quot; have no idea what &quot;ancient&quot; is when we talk about church architecture.  Ancient to us might be 150 -200 years old.  These guys have cathedrals and churches and abbeys that date to the Crusades, some of them.

The accoutrements of our version of &quot;ancient&quot; churches might make those in more mature nations cringe and cry.  I think some &quot;SOME&quot; of the liturgical churches in America might carry more weight as their architectural technology (and it IS technology) was imported from the churches of Europe, regardless of the tradition.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ancient.  I&#8217;ve got a few friends in London and scattered around Ireland and Scotland.  We &#8220;Yanks&#8221; have no idea what &#8220;ancient&#8221; is when we talk about church architecture.  Ancient to us might be 150 -200 years old.  These guys have cathedrals and churches and abbeys that date to the Crusades, some of them.</p>
<p>The accoutrements of our version of &#8220;ancient&#8221; churches might make those in more mature nations cringe and cry.  I think some &#8220;SOME&#8221; of the liturgical churches in America might carry more weight as their architectural technology (and it IS technology) was imported from the churches of Europe, regardless of the tradition.</p>
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		<title>By: Derek</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/liturgical-gangstas-13-projector-please/comment-page-1#comment-503947</link>
		<dc:creator>Derek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Jul 2009 14:48:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=3773#comment-503947</guid>
		<description>Alan, a generous contribution to the Vatican has been made on your behalf by an anonymous donor who spends a lot of his time &quot;high above the evangelical circus&quot;.  Additionally, your name is now engraved alongside said donor&#039;s at the entrance to his box seat.

Now wave down to the clowns. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alan, a generous contribution to the Vatican has been made on your behalf by an anonymous donor who spends a lot of his time &#8220;high above the evangelical circus&#8221;.  Additionally, your name is now engraved alongside said donor&#8217;s at the entrance to his box seat.</p>
<p>Now wave down to the clowns. <img src='http://www.internetmonk.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Derek</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/liturgical-gangstas-13-projector-please/comment-page-1#comment-503943</link>
		<dc:creator>Derek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Jul 2009 14:17:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=3773#comment-503943</guid>
		<description>Martha,
Please describe this thing called &quot;participation&quot; in church.  Other than a little bit of handshaking when the pastor says, &quot;greet your neighbor&quot;, I&#039;m generally accustomed to seeing the back of the Youth Group&#039;s heads.  My church experience (before family/house churching it) has been a very passive one.  So, you&#039;ve intrigued me. :nod:</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Martha,<br />
Please describe this thing called &#8220;participation&#8221; in church.  Other than a little bit of handshaking when the pastor says, &#8220;greet your neighbor&#8221;, I&#8217;m generally accustomed to seeing the back of the Youth Group&#8217;s heads.  My church experience (before family/house churching it) has been a very passive one.  So, you&#8217;ve intrigued me. :nod:</p>
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