Comments on: John 3:16 and the Importance of the Old Testament http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/john-316-and-the-importance-of-the-old-testament ...dispatches from the post-evangelical wilderness Sat, 21 Nov 2009 10:19:56 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: Indi http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/john-316-and-the-importance-of-the-old-testament/comment-page-1#comment-90581 Indi Thu, 10 May 2007 18:41:25 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/john-316-and-the-importance-of-the-old-testament#comment-90581 I suppose I'm asking if that is part of the reason you are an egalitarian -- our underlying philosophies shape our theology (hopefully vice versa, too). I suppose I’m asking if that is part of the reason you are an egalitarian — our underlying philosophies shape our theology (hopefully vice versa, too).

]]> By: Michael Spencer http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/john-316-and-the-importance-of-the-old-testament/comment-page-1#comment-90578 Michael Spencer Thu, 10 May 2007 18:31:39 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/john-316-and-the-importance-of-the-old-testament#comment-90578 I am an egalitarian, if that's what you are asking. I am an egalitarian, if that’s what you are asking.

]]> By: Indi http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/john-316-and-the-importance-of-the-old-testament/comment-page-1#comment-90575 Indi Thu, 10 May 2007 18:18:33 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/john-316-and-the-importance-of-the-old-testament#comment-90575 Love the OT and consider it fundamental in understanding both Grace and the character of God (not that I understand either of those things, being a very small and limited human). However, curious about this: "...This includes accommodation to what we would call primitive societies...This accommodation of God can seem to put God in the position of endorsing terrible things, but in each case there is a moral revelatory focus that is pointing towards Christ and the Gospel..." Certainly I can see the application of this idea to, say, slavery, as on the one hand slaves are told to obey their masters Ephesians 6:5, yet on the other hand slave-dealers are placed very clearly in the naughty category 1 Timothy 1:8-11. Would you apply that same thought to the position of women in the church? I mean, really, how far away are we from 'primitive society'? It seems there is much in scripture and relationship with Christ that is revolutionary. Love the OT and consider it fundamental in understanding both Grace and the character of God (not that I understand either of those things, being a very small and limited human).

However, curious about this:

“…This includes accommodation to what we would call primitive societies…This accommodation of God can seem to put God in the position of endorsing terrible things, but in each case there is a moral revelatory focus that is pointing towards Christ and the Gospel…”

Certainly I can see the application of this idea to, say, slavery, as on the one hand slaves are told to obey their masters Ephesians 6:5, yet on the other hand slave-dealers are placed very clearly in the naughty category 1 Timothy 1:8-11.

Would you apply that same thought to the position of women in the church? I mean, really, how far away are we from ‘primitive society’? It seems there is much in scripture and relationship with Christ that is revolutionary.

]]> By: Greg Laughery http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/john-316-and-the-importance-of-the-old-testament/comment-page-1#comment-90363 Greg Laughery Wed, 09 May 2007 05:46:59 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/john-316-and-the-importance-of-the-old-testament#comment-90363 Michael, Thanks for the encouragement to b-in the OT. We so need to hear this today. Couldn't agree more that OT sets the trajectory for NT generally, and for John 3:16 in particular. I have also been helped into the OT through a look into the surrounding ANE texts. This opens horizons and illuminates cultural perspectives towards understanding something of what God was doing. Greg Michael,
Thanks for the encouragement to b-in the OT. We so need to hear this today. Couldn’t agree more that OT sets the trajectory for NT generally, and for John 3:16 in particular. I have also been helped into the OT through a look into the surrounding ANE texts. This opens horizons and illuminates cultural perspectives towards understanding something of what God was doing.
Greg

]]> By: Sadie Lou http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/john-316-and-the-importance-of-the-old-testament/comment-page-1#comment-90070 Sadie Lou Mon, 07 May 2007 23:12:40 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/john-316-and-the-importance-of-the-old-testament#comment-90070 So with "accommodates" can one also use the word, "regulates"? Like say, pologamy? Obviously God desires men to be of one wife but since the people already were practicing in that lifestyle, he regulated pologamy--he didn't encourage or condone it. Would this be the same thing as stoning? So with “accommodates” can one also use the word, “regulates”? Like say, pologamy? Obviously God desires men to be of one wife but since the people already were practicing in that lifestyle, he regulated pologamy–he didn’t encourage or condone it. Would this be the same thing as stoning?

]]> By: Michael Spencer http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/john-316-and-the-importance-of-the-old-testament/comment-page-1#comment-90039 Michael Spencer Mon, 07 May 2007 18:36:38 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/john-316-and-the-importance-of-the-old-testament#comment-90039 I'll give my view, but I don't speak for anyone else. God accommodates himself to all levels of human culture in the establishment of his revelation among human beings. This includes accommodation to what we would call primitive societies with many repugnant aspects that would later change through various kinds of social development. This accommodation of God can seem to put God in the position of endorsing terrible things, but in each case there is a moral revelatory focus that is pointing towards Christ and the Gospel. Once Christ becomes the focus, many of these instances are radically transformed in our understanding. In other words, God's revelation has been progressive and once Christ is clearly in view, then all moral/spiritual truth comes under his judgement. I’ll give my view, but I don’t speak for anyone else.

God accommodates himself to all levels of human culture in the establishment of his revelation among human beings. This includes accommodation to what we would call primitive societies with many repugnant aspects that would later change through various kinds of social development.

This accommodation of God can seem to put God in the position of endorsing terrible things, but in each case there is a moral revelatory focus that is pointing towards Christ and the Gospel.

Once Christ becomes the focus, many of these instances are radically transformed in our understanding.

In other words, God’s revelation has been progressive and once Christ is clearly in view, then all moral/spiritual truth comes under his judgement.

]]> By: Sadie Lou http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/john-316-and-the-importance-of-the-old-testament/comment-page-1#comment-90038 Sadie Lou Mon, 07 May 2007 18:25:11 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/john-316-and-the-importance-of-the-old-testament#comment-90038 I have a question (I feel like I'm always saying that to you). How do we Christians deal with unbeliever's questions and concerns regarding some of the more difficult passages of the Old Testament? Example: Stoning people to death. The OT states a couple of times that people were stoned to death for various sins. This seems to be an issue for non believers. What would be a good thing to respond with? Was it the law of the land to stone people to death? Was it just God's law? What's the historical concept behind such a brutal puishment? I have a question (I feel like I’m always saying that to you). How do we Christians deal with unbeliever’s questions and concerns regarding some of the more difficult passages of the Old Testament?
Example: Stoning people to death.
The OT states a couple of times that people were stoned to death for various sins. This seems to be an issue for non believers.
What would be a good thing to respond with? Was it the law of the land to stone people to death? Was it just God’s law? What’s the historical concept behind such a brutal puishment?

]]> By: jmanning http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/john-316-and-the-importance-of-the-old-testament/comment-page-1#comment-89992 jmanning Mon, 07 May 2007 12:02:36 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/john-316-and-the-importance-of-the-old-testament#comment-89992 Good idea. SBC Dispensationalism neuters the Old Testament of any effective meaning. I grew up hearing "obedience" was the OT way to God's favor, "faith" is the NT way. When you read Romans, especially 10-11 it becomes obvious it is a lot more connected than we think. Faith is a common thread throughout the Bible. Good idea.

SBC Dispensationalism neuters the Old Testament of any effective meaning. I grew up hearing “obedience” was the OT way to God’s favor, “faith” is the NT way.

When you read Romans, especially 10-11 it becomes obvious it is a lot more connected than we think. Faith is a common thread throughout the Bible.

]]> By: Rob (an heir to the Kingdom) http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/john-316-and-the-importance-of-the-old-testament/comment-page-1#comment-89979 Rob (an heir to the Kingdom) Mon, 07 May 2007 11:02:27 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/john-316-and-the-importance-of-the-old-testament#comment-89979 That is a good Blog. Thanks. I tell my Jr. High SS class that in New Testament times, the only thing they had was the Old Testament to determine the truth about Jesus the Messiah. The New Testament hadn't been written until some years after Jesus lived. The Book of Acts was lived out BEFORE the New Testament was written. Paul was taught the Old Testament and when he was blind for 3 days (after his Road to Damascus experience), he had many hours to reflect on what just happened to him from what he knew about the Old Testament only. He ultimately had to answer the question, "Was Jesus the Messiah taught in the Old Testament?" That is a good Blog. Thanks.

I tell my Jr. High SS class that in New Testament times, the only thing they had was the Old Testament to determine the truth about Jesus the Messiah. The New Testament hadn’t been written until some years after Jesus lived.

The Book of Acts was lived out BEFORE the New Testament was written. Paul was taught the Old Testament and when he was blind for 3 days (after his Road to Damascus experience), he had many hours to reflect on what just happened to him from what he knew about the Old Testament only. He ultimately had to answer the question, “Was Jesus the Messiah taught in the Old Testament?”

]]> By: ewokgirl http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/john-316-and-the-importance-of-the-old-testament/comment-page-1#comment-89932 ewokgirl Mon, 07 May 2007 04:31:09 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/john-316-and-the-importance-of-the-old-testament#comment-89932 I started reading your website a few weeks ago after the religion section of The Dallas Morning News named your site the Site of the Week. It's now in my favorites. :-) I wanted to comment on this one because it hits near to my heart. I read a Barna study a while back that said kids are taught the same 25-30 bible stories throughout their youth, so when they become adults, they know relatively little of the bible. I realized that was me. I'm Southern Baptist, and a dear friend who is a charismatic Christian frequently references semi-obscure Old Testament bible stories. I often have no idea what he's talking about, which makes me realize I have so much catch-up studying to do! One way my husband and I are combatting this problem is that we are determined that our own Sunday school students will know the bible, not just the New Testament, which is what is mostly emphasized in Baptist churches. We are taking our middle schoolers through the Old Testament. I'm learning right along with them, and I find myself wishing that I'd learned the OT when I was a child (I mean stories beyond Adam and Eve, Noah, Abraham, Joseph...). There's so much in there, and you're right; we really can't fully understand the New Testament without the Old. I recently completed a study of Daniel in my women's group, and I'm overwhelmed by how much I've learned! It really makes certain aspects of the NT come alive in new ways when we truly study the OT. I hope to see more of this happening in our churches because I believe it to be something sorely lacking. I started reading your website a few weeks ago after the religion section of The Dallas Morning News named your site the Site of the Week. It’s now in my favorites. :-)

I wanted to comment on this one because it hits near to my heart. I read a Barna study a while back that said kids are taught the same 25-30 bible stories throughout their youth, so when they become adults, they know relatively little of the bible. I realized that was me. I’m Southern Baptist, and a dear friend who is a charismatic Christian frequently references semi-obscure Old Testament bible stories. I often have no idea what he’s talking about, which makes me realize I have so much catch-up studying to do!

One way my husband and I are combatting this problem is that we are determined that our own Sunday school students will know the bible, not just the New Testament, which is what is mostly emphasized in Baptist churches. We are taking our middle schoolers through the Old Testament. I’m learning right along with them, and I find myself wishing that I’d learned the OT when I was a child (I mean stories beyond Adam and Eve, Noah, Abraham, Joseph…). There’s so much in there, and you’re right; we really can’t fully understand the New Testament without the Old.

I recently completed a study of Daniel in my women’s group, and I’m overwhelmed by how much I’ve learned! It really makes certain aspects of the NT come alive in new ways when we truly study the OT. I hope to see more of this happening in our churches because I believe it to be something sorely lacking.

]]>