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	<title>Comments on: Jesus Has Left The Room: Pharisees, Zealots and Culture Warrior Youth Ministry</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/jesus-has-left-the-room-pharisees-zealots-and-culture-warrior-religion/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/jesus-has-left-the-room-pharisees-zealots-and-culture-warrior-religion</link>
	<description>...dispatches from the post-evangelical wilderness</description>
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		<title>By: Jeremiah Lawson</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/jesus-has-left-the-room-pharisees-zealots-and-culture-warrior-religion/comment-page-1#comment-81963</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeremiah Lawson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Apr 2007 20:57:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/jesus-has-left-the-room-pharisees-zealots-and-culture-warrior-religion#comment-81963</guid>
		<description>A friend showed me part of Jesus Camp, specifically the Ted Haggard part, and told me that people who wanted to show Christians in a bad light couldn&#039;t have picked better footage even if they wanted to.

When I was in my teens I took the culture war stuff pretty seriously and the &quot;worldview&quot; discussions that often seemed to boil down to pep rallies for Republican activism.  It seems Christians lack the historical breadth to see how quickly the shoe gets on the other foot. Now I feel that if conservative Christians saw how legislation from the era of the Social Gospel laid the groundwork for the &quot;teen culture&quot; so many culture warriors now get upset about they&#039;d think twice about setting up what they consider to be &quot;good law&quot;.  Even if we have laws that are good we still have plenty of people who are bad and law seems to be not about getting what you want from law in the next twenty years but the next century, especially when we consider the implications of enforcing laws that Christians seemed to push for in the 19th century.

The &quot;good law&quot; of prohibition, child labor laws, and compulsory public education finally got enforced and produced the teen culture Christian culture warriors have been fretting about for decades.  Why do conservative culture warriors fool themselves into thinking that their forms of legislation and activism won&#039;t backfire?  Apparently the same reason prohibition activists thought so.

Culture warriorism for either liberal or conservative Christian thought seems to produce a nasty myopia about the implications of actual laws.  I don&#039;t think people shouldn&#039;t be involved in politics but it just seems that we could use more Christians looking at the history of politics and Christian theological rationales for political action.  If we&#039;re to be the light of the world and a blessing to the nations in fulfillment of the Abrahamic covenant it means we need to seek the blessing of people who aren&#039;t Christians, right, not just ourselves?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A friend showed me part of Jesus Camp, specifically the Ted Haggard part, and told me that people who wanted to show Christians in a bad light couldn&#8217;t have picked better footage even if they wanted to.</p>
<p>When I was in my teens I took the culture war stuff pretty seriously and the &#8220;worldview&#8221; discussions that often seemed to boil down to pep rallies for Republican activism.  It seems Christians lack the historical breadth to see how quickly the shoe gets on the other foot. Now I feel that if conservative Christians saw how legislation from the era of the Social Gospel laid the groundwork for the &#8220;teen culture&#8221; so many culture warriors now get upset about they&#8217;d think twice about setting up what they consider to be &#8220;good law&#8221;.  Even if we have laws that are good we still have plenty of people who are bad and law seems to be not about getting what you want from law in the next twenty years but the next century, especially when we consider the implications of enforcing laws that Christians seemed to push for in the 19th century.</p>
<p>The &#8220;good law&#8221; of prohibition, child labor laws, and compulsory public education finally got enforced and produced the teen culture Christian culture warriors have been fretting about for decades.  Why do conservative culture warriors fool themselves into thinking that their forms of legislation and activism won&#8217;t backfire?  Apparently the same reason prohibition activists thought so.</p>
<p>Culture warriorism for either liberal or conservative Christian thought seems to produce a nasty myopia about the implications of actual laws.  I don&#8217;t think people shouldn&#8217;t be involved in politics but it just seems that we could use more Christians looking at the history of politics and Christian theological rationales for political action.  If we&#8217;re to be the light of the world and a blessing to the nations in fulfillment of the Abrahamic covenant it means we need to seek the blessing of people who aren&#8217;t Christians, right, not just ourselves?</p>
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		<title>By: kcillini77</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/jesus-has-left-the-room-pharisees-zealots-and-culture-warrior-religion/comment-page-1#comment-81829</link>
		<dc:creator>kcillini77</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Apr 2007 20:57:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/jesus-has-left-the-room-pharisees-zealots-and-culture-warrior-religion#comment-81829</guid>
		<description>If the church as a whole believes that we are in a &quot;Culture War&quot; it&#039;s no surprise that somewhere along the line the powers that be would decide that we need Special Forces.  And who better to send to the front lines than our impressionable youth who are wildly swayed by appeals to emotion and mob mentality.  If you want perhaps scarier food for thought be sure to rent &quot;Jesus Camp.&quot;  (I have a brief review on my site). Pay careful attention to the girl named Rachael.  Watch how she approaches strangers with tracts with the innocence of a child but with the conviction that she is a warrior for God.  On the one hand I have admiration for her.  On the other, I&#039;m scared to death of what she is on her way to becoming.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If the church as a whole believes that we are in a &#8220;Culture War&#8221; it&#8217;s no surprise that somewhere along the line the powers that be would decide that we need Special Forces.  And who better to send to the front lines than our impressionable youth who are wildly swayed by appeals to emotion and mob mentality.  If you want perhaps scarier food for thought be sure to rent &#8220;Jesus Camp.&#8221;  (I have a brief review on my site). Pay careful attention to the girl named Rachael.  Watch how she approaches strangers with tracts with the innocence of a child but with the conviction that she is a warrior for God.  On the one hand I have admiration for her.  On the other, I&#8217;m scared to death of what she is on her way to becoming.</p>
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		<title>By: coderforchrist</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/jesus-has-left-the-room-pharisees-zealots-and-culture-warrior-religion/comment-page-1#comment-81791</link>
		<dc:creator>coderforchrist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Apr 2007 13:02:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/jesus-has-left-the-room-pharisees-zealots-and-culture-warrior-religion#comment-81791</guid>
		<description>Regarding the video in Update III...wow. That is, frankly, a little scary. It looks like some sort of training camp for Christian Jihadists...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Regarding the video in Update III&#8230;wow. That is, frankly, a little scary. It looks like some sort of training camp for Christian Jihadists&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Beyond Words</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/jesus-has-left-the-room-pharisees-zealots-and-culture-warrior-religion/comment-page-1#comment-81744</link>
		<dc:creator>Beyond Words</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Apr 2007 21:58:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/jesus-has-left-the-room-pharisees-zealots-and-culture-warrior-religion#comment-81744</guid>
		<description>This is so timely. I saw a youth leader passing a poster for BattleCry last night and I wanted to cry. It&#039;s like we skipped the whole point of the Gospel, of the power of Jesus taking violence and vengeance to the cross and coming out the other side in the Resurrection.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is so timely. I saw a youth leader passing a poster for BattleCry last night and I wanted to cry. It&#8217;s like we skipped the whole point of the Gospel, of the power of Jesus taking violence and vengeance to the cross and coming out the other side in the Resurrection.</p>
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		<title>By: danddog</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/jesus-has-left-the-room-pharisees-zealots-and-culture-warrior-religion/comment-page-1#comment-81331</link>
		<dc:creator>danddog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Apr 2007 20:03:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/jesus-has-left-the-room-pharisees-zealots-and-culture-warrior-religion#comment-81331</guid>
		<description>Michael,
This might very well be the most on target post I&#039;ve ever read from you.  I&#039;ve struggled to describe to people why movements of this kind bother me so much.  It was a great moment to remember that Jesus dealt with this exact type of attitude himself.  It&#039;s a good reminder that there are no new attitudes, just new ways of presenting. thanks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael,<br />
This might very well be the most on target post I&#8217;ve ever read from you.  I&#8217;ve struggled to describe to people why movements of this kind bother me so much.  It was a great moment to remember that Jesus dealt with this exact type of attitude himself.  It&#8217;s a good reminder that there are no new attitudes, just new ways of presenting. thanks.</p>
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		<title>By: steve yates</title>
		<link>http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/jesus-has-left-the-room-pharisees-zealots-and-culture-warrior-religion/comment-page-1#comment-81330</link>
		<dc:creator>steve yates</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Apr 2007 19:56:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/jesus-has-left-the-room-pharisees-zealots-and-culture-warrior-religion#comment-81330</guid>
		<description>yep...on all counts. and that hurts for me to say, because i&#039;ve been at events and spent the money on Christian culture. but you&#039;re right on...did you see the response ATF got in san francisco a year or 2 ago when they did their stadium event? it was like they had slapped the city in the face! not to stand up for their culture, but perhaps we disrespect others with the loudness of our stuff instead of the loudness of our compassion.

steve</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>yep&#8230;on all counts. and that hurts for me to say, because i&#8217;ve been at events and spent the money on Christian culture. but you&#8217;re right on&#8230;did you see the response ATF got in san francisco a year or 2 ago when they did their stadium event? it was like they had slapped the city in the face! not to stand up for their culture, but perhaps we disrespect others with the loudness of our stuff instead of the loudness of our compassion.</p>
<p>steve</p>
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