Comments on: Is Your Boy A Real Man?: Focus On The Family’s Gender Confusion Watch

By: Scott

Scott — Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000

I seems to me that such a stereotyped culture would in fact contribute to gender confusion. If boys are forced to be more ‘manly’ than their personalities allow, they will be more prone to questioning their sexuality, and thus see themselves as ‘different’.

Very good observations.

By: Jeremiah Lawson

Jeremiah Lawson — Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000

I don’t know if I could count how many times I laughed out loud reading this one. I have seen far more first-hand of William Wallace wannabe masculinity campaigns than I ever wanted to see. Very good observations, iMonk.

If I took that Dobson list seriously I should be working for ACT-UP or The Advocate. So why did I see House of Flying Daggers just because I thought Ziyi Zhang was hot? Must be gay.

By: One Salient Oversight

One Salient Oversight — Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000

In many cases where someone has become homosexual, the environment they have brought up in is sometimes the main contributor.

This includes a parent (usually the father) who manipulates and controls his/her family like a platoon and who is emotionally distant.

I know that many Lesbians (inlcuding a friend of my wife) had been sexually abused by a male relative when they were younger.

In their article, FOTF seem to imply that the child can spontaneously begin to exhibit effeminite behaviour. Perhaps the article should have focused more upon how the parents themselves may need to change their behaviour, rather than focus upon the “sins” of the kids.

By: John H

John H — Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000

Michael – thank you for this excellent essay. The thought of how boys might be crushed beneath the expectations of “Iron John” stereotypical notions of masculinity among evangelicals is pretty depressing. Don’t cry, don’t read, don’t play with girls, and if you’re getting bullied then that’s your fault for acting queer. Good grief.

By: Phil Walker

Phil Walker — Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000

I’m just thankful that I was brought up by parents who positively encouraged their son to read, discouraged him from beating up other kids, and comforted him when he cried rather than telling him not to be so silly. These are all *good* things to do as parents, and Dobson is completely nuts to suggest otherwise.

By: Mike

Mike — Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000

My concern about your post – and others like it – is that it will serve to further polarize a Christian community that is largely ignorant of research on the origins of homosexuality. I suspect that most of your readers will only engage in confirmation bias and not research this complex phenomenon.

I have not read FotF’s article (it tends towards Christian pop psychology mixed with more than a little sensationalism) but if it is, as you present, simply a laundry list of “suspicious” behaviors then it will not help either. What is needed is in-depth study of the multitude of factors and issues that seem – and only “seem” – to contribute to the development of gender confusion/identity disorder.

Open-mindedness, caution, and grace are needed here. And perspective: however many homosexually oriented people there are (estimates are wildly speculative), there are still a great deal more people engaged in adultery and other sexual sins that are no less offensive to God and contrary to His designed purpose for sex.

By: bookdragon

bookdragon — Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000

This is the one of the truly silly things flating around out there in Christendom. I’ve known a few gay guys and many of them I met in martial arts classes (and most would fit the ‘manly man’ stereotype better than the ‘effeminate’ one on these lists – does Dobson have any clue that many of the big muscular guys pumping iron at the gym are gay?)

But I’m curious. Why all the emphasis on male homosexuals? The article had some passing references to girls who were ‘masculinized’ – whatever that means. (As a tomboy who grew up to be an engineer, I guess I should leave my husband and start looking for a woman to shack up with by this standard?) But overall, there is not anywhere the level of concern for girls growing up to be lesbians despite the fact that there seem to be equal %s of homosexuals in both gender groups. Why is that? Is it because making a similar list for girls would require going back to stereotypes of femininity so dated as to be laughable? Or is it because somehow lesbians are just less threatening to the (male) evangelical and therefore of less concern?

Or perhaps it is tied in some way to the bible? Afterall, God doesn’t seem to have had anything to say about lesbians until Paul (despite the fact that lesbian sexual behavior seems to be universal phenomenon in large harems like those kept by David and Solomon, for instance). Do we perceive male homosexuality as worse because of Leviticus? Or this evidence that the patriarchal concept that sons matter a lot more than daughters is still alive and well?

By: Robert

Robert — Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000

This essay is right on the money. A trackback is in the mail.

Ever since going to my first (and only) Promise Keepers meeting back in 1997, I’ve been growing more and more tired of the relentless gender stereotyping coming out of the evangelical movement. (I’m an evangelical Christian, btw.) ALL MEN are supposed to act a certain way; ALL WOMEN are supposed to act a certain way. There seems to be no room for differences. It makes for an incredible amount of alienation, not only from homosexuals but from heterosexuals within the chruch who don’t fit the mass-marketed ideas of what a man or a woman is supposed to be. If you take the FotF article and look at my own childhood — where I loved books and music and math and hated the “in crowd” and sports — you’d have to conclude that it’s a miracle that I’m not gay. Conversely, I guess I had better stop playing actively with my 19-month old daughter or else she’ll grow up to be a lesbian.

I visited my sister’s church not too long ago which has VERY much bought into this gender typing, and you should have seen the incredulous looks on the faces of the members when I took my daughter to the bathroom to change a poopy diaper while my wife stayed in the church service. I guess that’s “women’s work”.

Why do we evangelicals crave closure so much? Why do we have to draw a box around men and around women and insist that to be masculine (feminine) you have to satisfy the conditions of the box?

By: Brian

Brian — Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000

Scott is right on track. Behavioralism is the underlying problem in the FotF list and the mainstream Evangelical response to the issue of homosexuality.
We may call it “obeying God” or whatever, but we suggest that your identity may be determined by my classifications of your behavior (effeminate, etc.). This is a travesty.
Stereotypes are clumsy snd preclude really useful discussion. They should be chucked out and FotF should simply remove the list from their website. If they are unwilling to do this, they should be appropriate to the genre for such lists, and include a scoring system to help you interpret the results. Here is an example:
0 – repeat the test while you child is awake.
1-3 – moderate susceptibility. Buy your boy Hot Wheels and GI Joe action figures – just not the gay ones.
4-6 – high susceptibility. No more Tele-tubbies. Switch to John Wayne movies.
7 – susceptibility?. Sign him up for one of the re-ortientation programs now.

By: Michelle

Michelle — Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000

I have a concern about the amount of thought and concern that the “main-stream popular culture” Evangelicals put towards homosexuality. Far too much emphasis has been put on one aspect of human nature and made into a three ring circus for political power. Why is everyone so concerned with changing everyone else’s behaviour? I thought that I was going to agree with Mike above, but then he said “What is needed is in-depth study of the multitude of factors and issues that seem to contribute to the development of gender confusion/identity disorder.” Why do we need to understand? Is there as great a need to do in-depth study as to the factors that contribute to me lying, or me not wanting to listen to my mother’s rantings about the neighbour’s cat, or to my serious enjoyment of men’s bodies as opposed to women’s (for the record, I’m a single chick)? We only feel like we need to understand human behaviour so that we can control it.

Understanding why we do things is not going to lead us to change our behaviour and it certainly isn’t going to help us to change anyone else. But then, is that even the point? Changing behaviour is not going to bring anyone closer to God. It’s not going to save ONE person. Being homosexual or not is not the defining factor of Salvation. What is it that Uncle Jimmy (and the rest of the pop culture Evangelicals that he represents) is trying to accomplish in posting a list like this? Is his calling in life to make sure everyone is perfect according to his standards? Looks like it.

My main point is that we can’t control other people, not even our own kids. Show them how to be REAL people in love with God. I feel like I’m watching a bad episode of the OC only it’s a Christian version and Julie Cooper is writing for Focus on the Family. Act right, look good, smile, and for God’s sake, don’t let them see you be real.

Sorry for picking on you Mike. I meant nothing personal by it, in fact I appreciated the questions that your comments raised in my mind.

I can’t believe I admitted to watching the OC.