Comments on: Is a Passion for the Church the Same as a Passion for the Kingdom? http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/is-a-passion-for-the-church-the-same-as-a-passion-for-the-kingdom ...dispatches from the post-evangelical wilderness Sun, 12 Feb 2012 03:00:59 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Is a Passion for the Church the Same as a Passion for the Kingdom? | internetmonk.com « Theoblogical http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/is-a-passion-for-the-church-the-same-as-a-passion-for-the-kingdom/comment-page-1#comment-514218 Is a Passion for the Church the Same as a Passion for the Kingdom? | internetmonk.com « Theoblogical Wed, 07 Oct 2009 14:22:44 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=4597#comment-514218 [...] Is a Passion for the Church the Same as a Passion for the Kingdom? | internetmonk.com [...] [...] Is a Passion for the Church the Same as a Passion for the Kingdom? | internetmonk.com [...]

]]> By: jasonthebaldguy http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/is-a-passion-for-the-church-the-same-as-a-passion-for-the-kingdom/comment-page-1#comment-513174 jasonthebaldguy Thu, 01 Oct 2009 05:15:13 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=4597#comment-513174 Sue, I am in somewhat of a similar predicament, maybe I am a bit jaded but the "Christian" community has in many ways taken away from me the things that I once valued. The amount of effort required to be involved in "church" seems to only distract from the real goal of connecting with people, staying connected and investing in each others lives, I have spent a year at our local church trying to get connected with people only to find that they were too busy doing the "church thing" to bother with the people that were working alongside them. I decided recently I would rather avoid most "Christians" as the majority of self proclaiming "christians" are annoying and difficult to deal with. Along the way I have met several "followers of Jesus" that I can truly fellowship with and this comprises my "church" I think our whole problem here is Objectification of a concept that was never meant to be objectified. Once you name a spiritual principal, formulate a formula, establish a methodology, develop a doctrine, you are essentially putting that spiritual principal in a box for easy re-use. Handy for some things maybe, but it completely eradicates the "God Factor" an example I often use is this. We are relatively certain we know how the sun works, we understand fission and fusion and the chemicals and reactions necessary to create a sun. But we still cannot create it, you need the "God Factor" in exactly the same way spiritual principals, of Tithing, Servanthood, ServantLeadership, Church building, has all been wrapped up in tidy little boxes of cliche' so that we can take them out any time we need them. So when we wonder why this whole thing doesn't work... its because we took the "God Factor" out of it. I have no idea if any of this makes sense to anyone but me.. but there.. I said it :) Sue,
I am in somewhat of a similar predicament, maybe I am a bit jaded but the “Christian” community has in many ways taken away from me the things that I once valued. The amount of effort required to be involved in “church” seems to only distract from the real goal of connecting with people, staying connected and investing in each others lives, I have spent a year at our local church trying to get connected with people only to find that they were too busy doing the “church thing” to bother with the people that were working alongside them. I decided recently I would rather avoid most “Christians” as the majority of self proclaiming “christians” are annoying and difficult to deal with. Along the way I have met several “followers of Jesus” that I can truly fellowship with and this comprises my “church” I think our whole problem here is Objectification of a concept that was never meant to be objectified. Once you name a spiritual principal, formulate a formula, establish a methodology, develop a doctrine, you are essentially putting that spiritual principal in a box for easy re-use. Handy for some things maybe, but it completely eradicates the “God Factor” an example I often use is this.

We are relatively certain we know how the sun works, we understand fission and fusion and the chemicals and reactions necessary to create a sun. But we still cannot create it, you need the “God Factor” in exactly the same way spiritual principals, of Tithing, Servanthood, ServantLeadership, Church building, has all been wrapped up in tidy little boxes of cliche’ so that we can take them out any time we need them. So when we wonder why this whole thing doesn’t work… its because we took the “God Factor” out of it.

I have no idea if any of this makes sense to anyone but me.. but there.. I said it :)

]]> By: Quotable « New Covenant Christianity http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/is-a-passion-for-the-church-the-same-as-a-passion-for-the-kingdom/comment-page-1#comment-513167 Quotable « New Covenant Christianity Thu, 01 Oct 2009 02:50:18 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=4597#comment-513167 [...] “If an American church has 10,000 members, and they would all tithe, what would most of those churches do? Build bigger buildings and hire more staff to do more programs. Let’s support the church, but let’s not buy whiskey for proven alcoholics.” internet monk [...] [...] “If an American church has 10,000 members, and they would all tithe, what would most of those churches do? Build bigger buildings and hire more staff to do more programs. Let’s support the church, but let’s not buy whiskey for proven alcoholics.” internet monk [...]

]]> By: Sam Urfer http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/is-a-passion-for-the-church-the-same-as-a-passion-for-the-kingdom/comment-page-1#comment-512900 Sam Urfer Tue, 29 Sep 2009 16:13:13 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=4597#comment-512900 Your right, I haven't talked about all of them, and I probably won't, due to time constraints/not wanting to thread jack this into an apologetics war. For your interest, though, here are some relevant links: http://www.vatican.va/archive/catechism/p123a9p1.htm http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08646a.htm Your right, I haven’t talked about all of them, and I probably won’t, due to time constraints/not wanting to thread jack this into an apologetics war. For your interest, though, here are some relevant links:

http://www.vatican.va/archive/catechism/p123a9p1.htm

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08646a.htm

]]> By: Derek http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/is-a-passion-for-the-church-the-same-as-a-passion-for-the-kingdom/comment-page-1#comment-512864 Derek Tue, 29 Sep 2009 13:04:53 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=4597#comment-512864 Sam, you fail to recall all the parables about the Kingdom. Sam, you fail to recall all the parables about the Kingdom.

]]> By: Sam Urfer http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/is-a-passion-for-the-church-the-same-as-a-passion-for-the-kingdom/comment-page-1#comment-512852 Sam Urfer Tue, 29 Sep 2009 02:21:03 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=4597#comment-512852 Good quote. "And all that believed were together, and had all things common; And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need." Acts 2:44-45 My dad used that text once as an argument against Papal Infallibility, because Peter didn't see the inherent flaws in Socialism and know the greatness of Capitalism, American-style. Good quote.

“And all that believed were together, and had all things common; And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.”

Acts 2:44-45

My dad used that text once as an argument against Papal Infallibility, because Peter didn’t see the inherent flaws in Socialism and know the greatness of Capitalism, American-style.

]]> By: David Ulrich http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/is-a-passion-for-the-church-the-same-as-a-passion-for-the-kingdom/comment-page-1#comment-512844 David Ulrich Mon, 28 Sep 2009 23:50:26 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=4597#comment-512844 <i>"From each according to his ability, to each according to his need."</i> - Karl Marx “From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.” – Karl Marx

]]> By: Sam Urfer http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/is-a-passion-for-the-church-the-same-as-a-passion-for-the-kingdom/comment-page-1#comment-512836 Sam Urfer Mon, 28 Sep 2009 21:07:43 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=4597#comment-512836 Well, they do say that you become what you hate, and so it makes sense that certain TR would start to act like the Strawman Catholic Church they proclaim against. Well, they do say that you become what you hate, and so it makes sense that certain TR would start to act like the Strawman Catholic Church they proclaim against.

]]> By: Sam Urfer http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/is-a-passion-for-the-church-the-same-as-a-passion-for-the-kingdom/comment-page-1#comment-512834 Sam Urfer Mon, 28 Sep 2009 20:58:33 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=4597#comment-512834 Matthew 16:18-19 for the reference. Matthew 16:18-19 for the reference.

]]> By: Sam Urfer http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/is-a-passion-for-the-church-the-same-as-a-passion-for-the-kingdom/comment-page-1#comment-512833 Sam Urfer Mon, 28 Sep 2009 20:57:54 +0000 http://www.internetmonk.com/?p=4597#comment-512833 On the contrary: "And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." The parallelism of the passage clearly equates the Kingdom and the Church. The Scriptures and the Tradition are unequivocal on this point, the Kingdom IS the Church, whether the Church Militant, the Church Suffering, or the Church Triumphant, all of it is the Kingdom. On the contrary: “And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”

The parallelism of the passage clearly equates the Kingdom and the Church. The Scriptures and the Tradition are unequivocal on this point, the Kingdom IS the Church, whether the Church Militant, the Church Suffering, or the Church Triumphant, all of it is the Kingdom.

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